What year(s) had the most GP/500 talent?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Dec 7 2006, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>(1.) What year(s) had the most GP/500 talent?

Looking back at the premier class, what is your opinion regarding the most talented or successful field on the grid during any given season? Which field had the most contenders that either could have won the championship or challenged for the points lead? Which season in your estimation had the most capable competitors on the grid?

My Answer: 2006. The field included a highly competitive grid that saw several race winners, most being multiple race winners: Hayden, Rossi, Melandri, Capirossi, Pedrosa, Elias, and Bayliss. This year’s field also includes many World Title and National Title holders. The machines and technology were very competitive between factories, including the privateer team evidenced by a strong 5th in points over all (KR). This year saw wins by three different “works” factories: Honda, Yamaha, and Ducati as well as factory “supported” team Honda. The points lead exchanged riders several times and had multiple challengers for points lead that were effected by critical events such as crashes and engine failures; and being that the points were so tight, resulted in momentous results upon the championship points at the time.

(2.) What Champ had the most or least challengers?

Let me start by saying, a championship won is a great accomplishment and deserves all the merits and accolades that are associated with being a World Champion. However, the reality is that some years are lean with talent and lack an abundance of challengers or contenders.

For the Least challengers in a season:
My Answer: 1972 Giacomo Agostini

That year Agostini made 11 starts and won every one of those starts. His only real challenger was Alberto Pagani, who was also on the MV Agusta. Pagani was the runner up with 1 win in 8 starts. The closest to the two MV riders was Bruno Kneubuhler on the Yamaha. He had 8 starts and the only podiums he got were a couple of 2nd place finishes. He had half the points of Agostini at the end of the season.
What season do you think fielded the most talent?
Which Champion won with the least “resistance” or capable challengers?

For the first question, It has to be any season, the late 80's, early 90s for me. Rainey, Gardner, Doohan Lawson, even Spencer and Schwantz.....need I go on?

In my opinion, the two transition years betwen the Doohan and Rossi eras were pretty bland, both Criville and Roberts did the business, but there was a feeling of the lull before the storm.

Its not an easy call though, Doohan demolished everyone, and made them look .... for 5 years and was doing it in 1992 before the Assen crash, and you could hardly call the competition lame.

The other thing is, with the old, drop your worst 2 results system, that changed the final picture.

If that was still in place now, would Nicky have the No 1 plate?

Pete

Interesting topic, and one which I'd like to comment on when I have more time. But for now, I gotta set Racejumkie straight on this:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Dec 8 2006, 08:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>a strong 5th in points over all (KR)
Halfway through the Roberts Jr thread you started saying this. At first, I thought it was just a typo--but you seem to believe it now. Kenny Roberts Jr didn't finish 5th in 2006. NOT. EVEN. CLOSE. He was 6th--81 points behind Pedrosa...

Best MGP year definitely 2006 not because it is still in our memory but the fact that 4 strokes are easier to ride and riders can ride close to 100% of the time when compared to the jumpy 2 stroke 500s, which most riders agree that most riders ride only 70% of their talent. But I believe that the new 800s will bring even more race winners because of the ease of riding those machines...

Lackluster year would probably be the 2002 season where it was Rossi that had the tamer 4 strokes while others were on the 2 strokes and Yamaha didn't have clear development as of yet.. other manufacturers weren't even competitive..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChemiKaze @ Dec 10 2006, 03:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Best MGP year definitely 2006 not because it is still in our memory but the fact that 4 strokes are easier to ride and riders can ride close to 100% of the time when compared to the jumpy 2 stroke 500s, which most riders agree that most riders ride only 70% of their talent. But I believe that the new 800s will bring even more race winners because of the ease of riding those machines...

Lackluster year would probably be the 2002 season where it was Rossi that had the tamer 4 strokes while others were on the 2 strokes and Yamaha didn't have clear development as of yet.. other manufacturers weren't even competitive..


Have to disagree here. If we are talking depth of talent, then surely the point that the diesels are easier to ride is a bit of a contradiction.

When Doohan ditched the big bang NSR for the screamer, Criville (his neasrest rival) lasted a handful of laps before binning it. He could ride the big bang fast, but not the screamer. At the start of the 90's everyone had to be able to ride a screamer, or wake up in Dr Costas capable hands. Any of the guys Ive listed above were winning races at that time on bikes that would hurt you as soon as look at you, the history tells us that Doohan, Rainey and Schwantz all retired disabled Rainey paralysed, Doohan with an imovable ankle and Schwantz with his shattered wrist.

2 strokes took rider ability to a new level, as well as a total lack of fear of injury, As was said at the time, the difference between someone like Cadalora, a proven 500 winner, and Rainey or Schwantz, was that he wouldn't cross the line, if he wasnt happy, he let off the gas. When Rainey s career ended, the all conquering Yamaha was found to be an evil handling pig of a thing. It took a Rainey to win 3 titles on one.

2006 had a quality field, but lets not forget that launch and traction control was down to the riders ability in the 500 heyday, and that was on bikes with an on and off switch power delivery!

So, thats my opinion, 2006 was a great season, with some great close races, but as for depth of talent? I think we have to go back a few years.


Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Dec 10 2006, 09:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So, thats my opinion, 2006 was a great season, with some great close races, but as for depth of talent? I think we have to go back a few years.
Pete
must agree with pete. 500 took 100% & then some. u had better have had the skills to get the most outa those beasts! the late 80s early 90s defo the deepest field.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Dec 11 2006, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Have to disagree here. If we are talking depth of talent, then surely the point that the diesels are easier to ride is a bit of a contradiction.

When Doohan ditched the big bang NSR for the screamer, Criville (his neasrest rival) lasted a handful of laps before binning it. He could ride the big bang fast, but not the screamer. At the start of the 90's everyone had to be able to ride a screamer, or wake up in Dr Costas capable hands. Any of the guys Ive listed above were winning races at that time on bikes that would hurt you as soon as look at you, the history tells us that Doohan, Rainey and Schwantz all retired disabled Rainey paralysed, Doohan with an imovable ankle and Schwantz with his shattered wrist.

2 strokes took rider ability to a new level, as well as a total lack of fear of injury, As was said at the time, the difference between someone like Cadalora, a proven 500 winner, and Rainey or Schwantz, was that he wouldn't cross the line, if he wasnt happy, he let off the gas. When Rainey s career ended, the all conquering Yamaha was found to be an evil handling pig of a thing. It took a Rainey to win 3 titles on one.

2006 had a quality field, but lets not forget that launch and traction control was down to the riders ability in the 500 heyday, and that was on bikes with an on and off switch power delivery!

So, thats my opinion, 2006 was a great season, with some great close races, but as for depth of talent? I think we have to go back a few years.
Pete

Yeah, the early 90's always strikes me as the era of legends, back when the world was polytheistic, and there was mutiple Gods on the track in guys like Schwantz, Doohan, Rainey, Gardiner, Lawson and so on. Nowadays, with all this monotheistic #46 business.... I dunno

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Dec 10 2006, 07:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Have to disagree here. If we are talking depth of talent, then surely the point that the diesels are easier to ride is a bit of a contradiction.

When Doohan ditched the big bang NSR for the screamer, Criville (his neasrest rival) lasted a handful of laps before binning it. He could ride the big bang fast, but not the screamer. At the start of the 90's everyone had to be able to ride a screamer, or wake up in Dr Costas capable hands. Any of the guys Ive listed above were winning races at that time on bikes that would hurt you as soon as look at you, the history tells us that Doohan, Rainey and Schwantz all retired disabled Rainey paralysed, Doohan with an imovable ankle and Schwantz with his shattered wrist.

2 strokes took rider ability to a new level, as well as a total lack of fear of injury, As was said at the time, the difference between someone like Cadalora, a proven 500 winner, and Rainey or Schwantz, was that he wouldn't cross the line, if he wasnt happy, he let off the gas. When Rainey s career ended, the all conquering Yamaha was found to be an evil handling pig of a thing. It took a Rainey to win 3 titles on one.

2006 had a quality field, but lets not forget that launch and traction control was down to the riders ability in the 500 heyday, and that was on bikes with an on and off switch power delivery!

So, thats my opinion, 2006 was a great season, with some great close races, but as for depth of talent? I think we have to go back a few years.
Pete


I think you missed my point.. I said riding a 500 requires plenty of skill but most riders aren't able to push their 100% unlike the current 4 strokes.. I agree that 500 riders that manage to push 100% most of the time are in a league of their own, but the current bikes allows almost all riders to push to 100% of their talent... besides talent alone doesn't win races... the other 30% comes with the machinery they are on... so with Honda having multiple winners and Ducati proving that not only Loris can win on it with other manufacturers on the podium unlike the 500 days where it was usually the few extremely talented riders on the top stage.. the current 4 strokes does give other mediacore riders opportunities to win races, such as Toni Elias. An example of a talented rider on lousy machinery is Kenny Roberts Jr. He would have won more races if he was on the 4 stroke Honda.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChemiKaze @ Dec 11 2006, 07:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think you missed my point.. I said riding a 500 requires plenty of skill but most riders aren't able to push their 100% unlike the current 4 strokes.. I agree that 500 riders that manage to push 100% most of the time are in a league of their own, but the current bikes allows almost all riders to push to 100% of their talent... besides talent alone doesn't win races... the other 30% comes with the machinery they are on... so with Honda having multiple winners and Ducati proving that not only Loris can win on it with other manufacturers on the podium unlike the 500 days where it was usually the few extremely talented riders on the top stage.. the current 4 strokes does give other mediacore riders opportunities to win races, such as Toni Elias. An example of a talented rider on lousy machinery is Kenny Roberts Jr. He would have won more races if he was on the 4 stroke Honda.


No thats just the point I'm making. Jumkie was talking depth of talent, and although the the diesels do allow weaker riders to win races, then thats doesnt mean the field is stronger. It is however, evening out the playing field, and that makes for closer racing as you quite rightly say, and the better riders will always rise to the top.

What I'm saying is, a guy like Wayne Rainey, or indeed Luca Cadalora could win races on the YZR500, when by all accounts it was a nightmare to ride. Just as Doohan reverted to the screamer and beat the guys on the easier to ride big bang Hondas.

It's just my opinion, but I think that the premier class should be on bikes that only a few can win on week in week out.

I'll be honest Jumkie, I cant pick out a season that I think was more competitive, or has more depth of talent, every season has its battles up and down the rankings. Any season that had Rainey against Schwantz or Doohan against Gardner was going to have fireworks. And although Doohan dominated for a long time, there were some great battles with guys like Beattie and Criville.

Its all good!

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Dec 11 2006, 07:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'll be honest Jumkie, I cant pick out a season that I think was more competitive, or has more depth of talent, every season has its battles up and down the rankings. Any season that had Rainey against Schwantz or Doohan against Gardner was going to have fireworks. And although Doohan dominated for a long time, there were some great battles with guys like Beattie and Criville.

Its all good!

Pete
to be honest mate neither can i which is why ive been quite in this thread, im just sat back reading all the comments and facts and enjoying what im reading. at the end of the day they all have to be biking gods to be in the class in the first place in any era. the bikes were harder to ride yesteryear but faster today,so who's more talented.? i dunno !

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Dec 11 2006, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>to be honest mate neither can i which is why ive been quite in this thread, im just sat back reading all the comments and facts and enjoying what im reading. at the end of the day they all have to be biking gods to be in the class in the first place in any era. the bikes were harder to ride yesteryear but faster today,so who's more talented.? i dunno !
AMEN!!!......maybe