Valencia Tests.

Austin said:

Stoner has been impressive for sure, but I don't think he's in all out test mode like Rossi is. From what I've read, he's on one of Pedrosa's 2010s that's pretty well sorted. He may have a 2011 lab bike as well, that I don't know, but he's been handed a pretty well sorted bike. Colin Edwards told the BBC this morning that he thought it was the best bike on the grid. That being said, he's been extremely impressive to be so quick straight out of the box. However, Stoner only has one speed and that's fast. He's not going to shave another two seconds off his lap times, or a second-and-a-half like Rossi will. Stoner is within a second of what is capable of the package he is presently on. He could find that a further second or so if HRC really bring something magical to the 212, but as far as this test goes, I believe Stoner is within one second, maybe even a half second, of what is capable on his present package.



As far as Rossi goes, and this includes Hayden as well, there is no thought given to times what so ever. Everyone is talking about the decision between the big bang and the screamer, and it's a huge issue, but that's only one of the major decisions to be made in these early outings. Ducati are supposed to have some options for front end as well, not sure how much of that comes from Ohlins and how much is in-house, but the rumor is there are some variations that should help the front end feel problems that plagued Stoner in the first half of the season, and Hayden in the second. Two brand new engines to test, as well as at least two front end options, in addition to getting the feel for the motorcycle and setting up geometry sounds like a lot of work to be crammed into two days. How much do you think Valentino is missing having Edwards around?

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Good to see you taking a break from your studies to post bro. There is much excitement in GP at the moment, eh. I pretty much agree with what you aay above. Except that Stoner handed Rossi a bike he beat him with the last round and climbed on a bike Rossi beat in that same span. I can't help but think that they handed Rossi that bike to see what he could do with it. Its logical methodology. First of all, because if he had been fast out of the box, it would have effected development as it would have been a benchmark to start from rather than starting from scratch. But once they realized he wasn't gonna match Stoner, that thinking went out the window and now, as you say, lap times are of no consequence, as deciding which way to go from here is of most importance. The Ducati as we know is unique, and its confirms my suspicion that Casey skewed its appeared competitiveness. The rest of the Ducs have been on par with Suzuki, the standard of uncompetitive bikes. I seriously doubt the Ducati that appeared on the podium at Valencia will be anything near what appears at Qatar next year. But there won't be a lack of people telling us it is once Rossi begins to be competitive on it. Mouse trap, its just the reality of the sport.

Austin said:

Stoner has been impressive for sure, but I don't think he's in all out test mode like Rossi is. From what I've read, he's on one of Pedrosa's 2010s that's pretty well sorted. He may have a 2011 lab bike as well, that I don't know, but he's been handed a pretty well sorted bike. Colin Edwards told the BBC this morning that he thought it was the best bike on the grid. That being said, he's been extremely impressive to be so quick straight out of the box. However, Stoner only has one speed and that's fast. He's not going to shave another two seconds off his lap times, or a second-and-a-half like Rossi will. Stoner is within a second of what is capable of the package he is presently on. He could find that a further second or so if HRC really bring something magical to the 212, but as far as this test goes, I believe Stoner is within one second, maybe even a half second, of what is capable on his present package.



As far as Rossi goes, and this includes Hayden as well, there is no thought given to times what so ever. Everyone is talking about the decision between the big bang and the screamer, and it's a huge issue, but that's only one of the major decisions to be made in these early outings. Ducati are supposed to have some options for front end as well, not sure how much of that comes from Ohlins and how much is in-house, but the rumor is there are some variations that should help the front end feel problems that plagued Stoner in the first half of the season, and Hayden in the second. Two brand new engines to test, as well as at least two front end options, in addition to getting the feel for the motorcycle and setting up geometry sounds like a lot of work to be crammed into two days. How much do you think Valentino is missing having Edwards around?

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Nobody dawdles around to test a bike. He would need to be running the two configurations near their limits. He's not there yet, ie. he isn't comfortable on the Duc. thats why the times are slow.

BarryMachine said:

Nobody dawdles around to test a bike. He would need to be running the two configurations near their limits. He's not there yet, ie. he isn't comfortable on the Duc. thats why the times are slow.

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No doubt, but you don't think providing Ducati the feedback they're looking for in deciding between two new engines could play any part in that process? He spent today on two very green bikes, both GP11s, essentially fresh from Italy.

Jumkie said:

Good to see you taking a break from your studies to post bro. There is much excitement in GP at the moment, eh. I pretty much agree with what you aay above. Except that Stoner handed Rossi a bike he beat him with the last round and climbed on a bike Rossi beat in that same span. I can't help but think that they handed Rossi that bike to see what he could do with it. Its logical methodology. First of all, because if he had been fast out of the box, it would have effected development as it would have been a benchmark to start from rather than starting from scratch. But once they realized he wasn't gonna match Stoner, that thinking went out the window and now, as you say, lap times are of no consequence, as deciding which way to go from here is of most importance. The Ducati as we know is unique, and its confirms my suspicion that Casey skewed its appeared competitiveness. The rest of the Ducs have been on par with Suzuki, the standard of uncompetitive bikes. I seriously doubt the Ducati that appeared on the podium at Valencia will be anything near what appears at Qatar next year. But there won't be a lack of people telling us it is once Rossi begins to be competitive on it. Mouse trap, its just the reality of the sport.

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Things have been busy, so thanks for the welcome back. I understand where you're coming from, and I'm not trying to take anything away from Stoner. My understanding is that he spent today on one of Pedrosa's 2010s and wasn't given much in terms of development pieces. Like I said earlier, he's got one speed and it's flat-out. I'm certainly not surprised to see him this fast, this early. He's got arguably more talent than anyone on the grid and has the unique ability to ride around problems. He now arguably the best bike on the grid in the Honda, so what he's done shouldn't come as a surprise. Spies said it would be scary and it is.



Rossi on the other hand, rode strictly GP11s today and as you and I have said many times before, the Ducati is not as good as Stoner made it look. He has a lot of work to do, hence Ducati giving him two new engines and front end options. It's going to take some time for him to filter what's come in and for JB and co. to download the feedback and return it positively. Rossi's undertaking is greater than Stoner's IMO.

Austin said:

Things have been busy, so thanks for the welcome back. I understand where you're coming from, and I'm not trying to take anything away from Stoner. My understanding is that he spent today on one of Pedrosa's 2010s and wasn't given much in terms of development pieces. Like I said earlier, he's got one speed and it's flat-out. I'm certainly not surprised to see him this fast, this early. He's got arguably more talent than anyone on the grid and has the unique ability to ride around problems. He now arguably the best bike on the grid in the Honda, so what he's done shouldn't come as a surprise. Spies said it would be scary and it is.



Rossi on the other hand, rode strictly GP11s today and as you and I have said many times before, the Ducati is not as good as Stoner made it look. He has a lot of work to do, hence Ducati giving him two new engines and front end options. It's going to take some time for him to filter what's come in and for JB and co. to download the feedback and return it positively. Rossi's undertaking is greater than Stoner's IMO.

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You are a man of many talents my friend. Don't let the British spoil you with all that good learning and lack of sunshine. We need every level headed member we can muster here.



Speaking of Brits, I think I might have been unfair to Crutchlow in saying he had a test under his belt. The test he did have was on a rain socked Japanese track. And when it did dry up, he only managed to get in a few laps. So this is his real test.

Austin said:

Things have been busy, so thanks for the welcome back. I understand where you're coming from, and I'm not trying to take anything away from Stoner. My understanding is that he spent today on one of Pedrosa's 2010s and wasn't given much in terms of development pieces. Like I said earlier, he's got one speed and it's flat-out. I'm certainly not surprised to see him this fast, this early. He's got arguably more talent than anyone on the grid and has the unique ability to ride around problems. He now arguably the best bike on the grid in the Honda, so what he's done shouldn't come as a surprise. Spies said it would be scary and it is.



Rossi on the other hand, rode strictly GP11s today and as you and I have said many times before, the Ducati is not as good as Stoner made it look. He has a lot of work to do, hence Ducati giving him two new engines and front end options. It's going to take some time for him to filter what's come in and for JB and co. to download the feedback and return it positively. Rossi's undertaking is greater than Stoner's IMO.

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Good to see you around Guvnor. I think what will be telling is... will Rossi be as competitive on the Duc at Qatar

as Stoner was at Qatar in 2007? If you agree that the Duc is and always has been a idiosyncratic machine

then you would necessarily agree that Stoner's ability to ride it in such a dominating fashion right from the start

created a benchmark that Rossi won't readily surpass.

Keshav said:

Good to see you around Guvnor. I think what will be telling is... will Rossi as competitive on the Duc at Qatar

as Stoner was at Qatar in 2007? If you agree that the Duc is and always has been a idiosyncratic machine

then you would necessarily agree that Stoner's ability to ride it in such a dominating fashion right from the start

created a benchmark that Rossi won't readily surpass.

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I don't think that's what they will produce on the track. They will come with a redesigned bike from scratch i my thought. BTW, has anybody seen a first day impressions interview by Rossi? I've seen pretty much all the riders give one except Rossi and Hayden.

Jumkie said:

I don't think that's what they will produce on the track. They will come with a redesigned bike from scratch i my thought. BTW, has anybody seen a first day impressions interview by Rossi? I've seen pretty much all the riders give one except Rossi and Hayden.

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Rossi is gagged by Yamaha till the end of year and he cannot make any comments on todays test. For Hayden's and preziosi's comments go through the following link linky

Ngads said:

It always seems like edwards is up way further on the list during tests than he is during races. Its like that every year.

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Yep 2004 pre season he was beating Rossi's race times doing sim's and been touted as a championship contender...

Jumkie said:

I don't think that's what they will produce on the track. They will come with a redesigned bike from scratch i my thought. BTW, has anybody seen a first day impressions interview by Rossi? I've seen pretty much all the riders give one except Rossi and Hayden.

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Been gagged by Yamaha from publicly speaking about it as has Stoner (maybe?) hence the lack of sponsorship and all. The BBC coverage had a camera on the wall in the garage but with no mic as hearing VR's feedback would be him (or them, maybe, whatever) breaking the contract.

Rossi did not spend the day flipping between 2 types of engine. He rode the big bang all day and then had one go on the screamer at the end of the day. I have no doubt that he was testing plenty of stuff though but it is probably good to speculate using as many facts as freely available.



Stoner also did not spend the day just riding one bike with no testing of new stuff. Testing is limited so they are throwing everything they would in the past have done over 20 odd days into 6 days.



It is testing though and I am sure that different riders have different strategies so times are pretty irrelevant. However as has been argued many times before, there is not a lot of testing relevance when you are running 2 seconds or more of the pace you will race at.



It is well documented that Stoner gets on anything and takes it straight to the limit. Rossi' new boss has stated many times that they could do huge changes to the bike and on the second lap Stoner would have it at the limit. His feel of the bike is that good and his ability to adapt to what he has underneath him is unrivalled. Rossi on the other hand has a methodical approach that sees him edge up on the limit as he solves one problem at a time. We have seen this every race weekend for the past 10 or more years.



The times at the end of the second day will be a better indication of the lay of the land as we are only 40 seconds into the 80 seconds that Rossi needs to sort out that bike.

I was there today in the tech3 garage today,

Got some awesome pics from pit lane

And my bud Dave was on the service road and got some kick ... pics.

Total pics taken since thursday is over 900 by me and "One wheel madness" 's dad took about 2000 pics

And big Al "comando" has tons too.

Will start a thread about our trip in a few days.

Today wasn't about setting time records,

It was all about bike fittment, bike feel and tweaking.

Its about trying new things and see what works and what doesn't.



So times don't mean ...., the media and bloggers are the ones that makes a big deal about it.

Austin said:

No doubt, but you don't think providing Ducati the feedback they're looking for in deciding between two new engines could play any part in that process? He spent today on two very green bikes, both GP11s, essentially fresh from Italy.

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That was my point! You can't test for which engine at 2 seconds off pace.



I'd just say they aren't comfortable enough yet to make an engine decision. Wednesday they may get there.

I think he's just gaining confidence on the bike and then will make more technical decisions. We can clearly see he is not leaning the bike too much in the corners, he seems to be gaining confidence and feeling the bike first.



Stoner rode a Honda in 2006, so, he has more or less an idea of what to expect. Also, a screamer engine (honda) is not something new to Stoner.

Jumkie said:

You are a man of many talents my friend. Don't let the British spoil you with all that good learning and lack of sunshine. We need every level headed member we can muster here.



Speaking of Brits, I think I might have been unfair to Crutchlow in saying he had a test under his belt. The test he did have was on a rain socked Japanese track. And when it did dry up, he only managed to get in a few laps. So this is his real test.

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The only thing that's spoiling me over here is the sports coverage. This time last year I was scrambling to find links for justin.tv to catch any video from these tests. This morning I just flicked on the BBC link and I was set. And live Friday afternoon, Saturday qualifying and Sunday morning warm-up sessions and 125 and Moto2 races with MotoGP on delay on Eurosport is a thing of beauty. That's all before you even get into how much football I've been watching. One thing is for sure, sports on TV here is way better than back home. I'll take live MotoGP and F1 sessions and all the football I can handle over 24 hour coverage of whether Favre did or didn't send pictures of his dong to a reporter.



I was surprised to see Crutchlow ahead of Cappers and Elias already. I thought he'd eventually get to a point where he would find himself amongst de Puniet, Barbera, Bautista, you know, somewhere between 8th and 13th, but I didn't expect it straight away. I'm impressed. He's no world beater, but I'm impressed.

Keshav said:

Good to see you around Guvnor. I think what will be telling is... will Rossi be as competitive on the Duc at Qatar

as Stoner was at Qatar in 2007? If you agree that the Duc is and always has been a idiosyncratic machine

then you would necessarily agree that Stoner's ability to ride it in such a dominating fashion right from the start

created a benchmark that Rossi won't readily surpass.

Click to expand...

For the record, Valencia testing is just about my favorite time of year, so don't be surprised if I come out of hiding at this time annually. First day of riders on new bikes, bikes in beautiful carbon fibre, debutants in the class, one-off liveries etc. And then you get into all the (pointless) speculation on times. It's fun times.



Will Rossi be at Qatar as Stoner was in 2007? Hard to say, I don't think so. I hate to doubt the guy, I did it once before and I ate humble pie. I think he gets it right, I think he wins races on it, but I'm not sure he wins at Qatar like Stoner did. I'd really like to sit on the fence with this one if I could. I will say however, that Stoner showed up to Qatar and won on a bike that was (more or less) just handed to him. Whatever Rossi does at Qatar and throughout the season, it won't be because he can jump on a bike and instantly make it go fast. It will be because Rossi has the uncanny ability to make a bike better bit by bit. We are witnessing two greats of our sport. Rossi is obviously legend, but we might not ever see a rider with his developmental ability ever again. And I think Stoner is the fastest rider of his generation. It's an exciting time to see them both take on new challenges.

Jumkie said:

I don't think that's what they will produce on the track. They will come with a redesigned bike from scratch i my thought. BTW, has anybody seen a first day impressions interview by Rossi? I've seen pretty much all the riders give one except Rossi and Hayden.

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Like the others have said, Rossi is not allowed to publicly speak about the Ducati, nor can Ducati use his image for any of their websites or promotional materials.

BarryMachine said:

That was my point! You can't test for which engine at 2 seconds off pace.



I'd just say they aren't comfortable enough yet to make an engine decision. Wednesday they may get there.

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Certainly no decisions have been made. But he did make a short run on the screamer, I don't believe today was simply spent acclimating to the machine. I believe there is a lot of data collection happening in the number 17 garage.

Good to see the guys on their new bikes.



No major concern for Rossi as he will chip away at things and develop the bike. Time will be the only tale that is going to show us how much Casey out performed that bike. I am really looking forward to seeing how it behaves as JB develops it and Rossi gets used to it. I wonder if it will morph into an M1 and be painted to the road or if it will continue to buck and heave like we have come to know it. I suppose Haydens results will go a ways to demonstrating how well the bike develops or changes.



Casey is impressive as always. The ability he has is down to so many factors but basically growing up on inferior machinery has been a big factor in his abilities. Its going to be easier to see how good a rider Casey is as we will have a proved combination in Pedrosa/Honda to compare him to. But this move to Honda was planned 2 years ago. I believe HRC decided the only way to the top was with Stoner, they poaced Suppo with sole purpose of getting Casey, they developed a screamer engine for the same reason, they basically put the things in place to get him there and give him the best shot. Its going to be great to see if they work together and make it happen.



The other indication to see Hondas commitment to Casey is the garage division. If the team stays divided then we know Danni and Puig have got their way, but if they open the team up, share data and set ups then we know HRC are doing Caseys bidding. They would be silly not too, with a 3 bike team they can gather more pratice data to share than any other outfit. They would be silly not to exploit such an advantage.



Spies is apparently a top guy so it will be great to see him do well and all indications are that he will be around the mark.

maybe rossi has 46 race wins atm for a reason.... big question is will he ever win again... especially given that no rider has been able to compete for a win in the last 3 years. ok loris did in a rain effected race.

is200 said:

The other indication to see Hondas commitment to Casey is the garage division. If the team stays divided then we know Danni and Puig have got their way, but if they open the team up, share data and set ups then we know HRC are doing Caseys bidding. They would be silly not too, with a 3 bike team they can gather more pratice data to share than any other outfit. They would be silly not to exploit such an advantage.



Spies is apparently a top guy so it will be great to see him do well and all indications are that he will be around the mark.

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just have dovi and stoner share data

Austin said:

For the record, Valencia testing is just about my favorite time of year, so don't be surprised if I come out of hiding at this time annually. First day of riders on new bikes, bikes in beautiful carbon fibre, debutants in the class, one-off liveries etc. And then you get into all the (pointless) speculation on times. It's fun times.



Whatever Rossi does at Qatar and throughout the season, it won't be because he can jump on a bike and instantly make it go fast. It will be because Rossi has the uncanny ability to make a bike better bit by bit. We are witnessing two greats of our sport. Rossi is obviously legend, but we might not ever see a rider with his developmental ability ever again. And I think Stoner is the fastest rider of his generation. It's an exciting time to see them both take on new challenges.

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I agree this is a very interesting time, even more so this year due to major rider changes with rossi and stoner, and ben spies going to the factory bike.



I would like to think stoner is the fastest rider of his generation, but particularly after lorenzo's performance in the valencia race and in the first day of testing I wonder whether he might be the second fastest.



Valentino is well known to actually test during testing sessions so his times may not mean much, although i guess ducati wouldn't mind an immediate pay-off with fast testing times. I would like to think stoner might keep his powder dry if he does find extreme pace with the honda, but such has never been his wont previously.

Austin said:

Stoner has been impressive for sure, but I don't think he's in all out test mode like Rossi is. From what I've read, he's on one of Pedrosa's 2010s that's pretty well sorted. He may have a 2011 lab bike as well, that I don't know, but he's been handed a pretty well sorted bike.

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Rossi and Stoner have both spent the day getting used the their bikes, making basic setting changes and making themselves comfortable. It seems neither have done any major testing yet. Also, you say Stoner has been handed a sorted bike but its often said that Dani has his bike set up in a very individual way, none of the other Honda riders use a bike like Dani's. So in that sense i don't think Stoner is getting an easier task than Rossi, nor do i think his motives today were drastically different from Valentinos. I think the difference in times today is just a demonstration of Stoner's method of being flat out right away compared to Rossi's methodical way of building up speed.