VALENCIA 2011:RACE, end of era, CIAO MARCO

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Evolution said:
So Dovi cuts in front of Bautista, touching his front tyre, cuasing 4 riders to crash and still allowed to continue to 3rd? So much for politics LOL. Why dont they equipe all the Repsol riders with machine guns in the front or with oil dumping trick in the back?

If Rossi pulled this stunt, he would have been flamed for ever on this forum. And Simoncheli RIP was forced to go through pit for less than this.
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Yep quite right, that was Dovi trying to take the same piece of track that Bautista was already on. Dovi's mistake, he was trying too hard to make a point, about losing his ride, and he put that point before safety, he was just going for it.
 
I'm not a fan of the term "racing incident" because it generally absolves riders of responsibility. I don't buy this explanation that its just too many riders going into a small space at turn one. Well of course, this is why all the riders need to be extra careful. When you see riders take the outside line, its because they are responding to the this physical crowding of space. When a rider takes the outside line, this is not the ideal line, but they must do this to safely negotiate the corner, that is they concede to the reality of the situation. If there is a mistake made because of being too hasty, then there is a mistake made and by definition, there is blame to be applied. We already know these crashes ar not intentional, so no need to got there, but "racing incidents" happen because people make mistakes. In my opinion, Bautista screwed up here. And what is the consequence of that mistake? He destroyed the entire team & rider's preparation and prudence for Nicky, Rossi, and DePuniet. This is why when going into a first turn you have to be extra careful. Yes, stuff is going to happen because there is little space and time to make split decisions and reactions, therefore, work out how to do it carefully is the lesson. The Ducati's took a prudent line on the outside, but that was counting on the guys inside not to .... up. One did, and caused a chain reaction. The term "racing incident" is lame.
 
Jumkie said:
I'm not a fan of the term "racing incident" because it generally absolves riders of responsibility. I don't buy this explanation that its just too many riders going into a small space at turn one. Well of course, this is why all the riders need to be extra careful. When you see riders take the outside line, its because they are responding to the this physical crowding of space. When a rider takes the outside line, this is not the ideal line, but they must do this to safely negotiate the corner, that is they concede to the reality of the situation. If there is a mistake made because of being too hasty, then there is a mistake made and by definition, there is blame to be applied. We already know these crashes ar not intentional, so no need to got there, but "racing incidents" happen because people make mistakes. In my opinion, Bautista screwed up here. And what is the consequence of that mistake? He destroyed the entire team & rider's preparation and prudence for Nicky, Rossi, and DePuniet. This is why when going into a first turn you have to be extra careful. Yes, stuff is going to happen because there is little space and time to make split decisions and reactions, therefore, work out how to do it carefully is the lesson. The Ducati's took a prudent line on the outside, but that was counting on the guys inside not to .... up. One did, and caused a chain reaction. The term "racing incident" is lame.
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re-writing history is lamer. Do explain how is it Bautista's fault? In the above angle re-play it is so clear that Bautista is holding his line, while Dovi just cuts in front of him, not just a little, but like a couple of meters move. He touches Bautista front, game over. What should have Bautista done? Read Dovi's mind and move out of the way of 'sacred Honda'?
 
After lap 1 turn 1 and Casey riding off into the sunset with a whopping 11 riders behind him I thought this race is over entertainment wise.



Wrong.



This race was brilliant!! Dovi and Dani swapping spots mutiple times a lap, Spies stalking them. Karel and Cal doing the same thing a few spots back.



New Colin Edwards doing better than old Colin Edwards, ....... impressive .....



Then Spies making up a 9 second gap to pass Casey. Mind=Blown



Casey beating Ben to the line by 15 thousands of a second. Mind=More Blown !!!



Adriana's expression as Casey won by half a wheel was priceless!
 
Weird race. It went to commercial and Stoner was leading by a country mile, with Dovi, Pedro and Spes battling for second. After commercials, Spies is in 2nd, ahead of Dovi pulling away, while Pedrosa has been totally dropped. Then i see Stoner just a few seconds in front of Spies. I looked at lap analysis, and Stoner lost like 4 seconds on 1 lap. Did he have an off track excursion, or did he just slow down that much because of conditions. Wish Spies had won, but it was obvious Stoner had plenty in reserve when he needed it. Its almost like he decided to send the 800 era out with a bang. As much as some hate it, it sure was good to him. I personally will not hold the era in disdain, 3 different champions in five years. Big Shout out to Josh Hayes, you brought it home, in 7th no less. Bring on the 1000's. Looking forward to having them all on the same track in the mext few days. Oh, and the wreck, Bautista ...... up.
 
Evolution said:
re-writing history is lamer. Do explain how is it Bautista's fault? In the above angle re-play it is so clear that Bautista is holding his line, while Dovi just cuts in front of him, not just a little, but like a couple of meters move. He touches Bautista front, game over. What should have Bautista done? Read Dovi's mind and move out of the way of 'sacred Honda'?
Click to expand...

Why did Bautista feel the need to walk to the Ducati pits to apologize? He did that because he felt the incident wasn't his fault? Being little more than an ignorant spectator (as am I) I'd let Bautista's behavior post incident lead us to conclude where blame should be placed.
 
levigarrett said:
Why did Bautista feel the need to walk to the Ducati pits to apologize? He did that because he felt the incident wasn't his fault? Being little more than an ignorant spectator (as am I) I'd let Bautista's behavior post incident lead us to conclude where blame should be placed.
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I see. So the race footage shows otherwise, and we can not come up with a plausible explanation- but hey, the nice guy felt the urge to applogise, so lets nail him for that.

This is even lamer.
 
Jumkie said:
I'm not a fan of the term "racing incident" because it generally absolves riders of responsibility. I don't buy this explanation that its just too many riders going into a small space at turn one. Well of course, this is why all the riders need to be extra careful. When you see riders take the outside line, its because they are responding to the this physical crowding of space. When a rider takes the outside line, this is not the ideal line, but they must do this to safely negotiate the corner, that is they concede to the reality of the situation. If there is a mistake made because of being too hasty, then there is a mistake made and by definition, there is blame to be applied. We already know these crashes ar not intentional, so no need to got there, but "racing incidents" happen because people make mistakes. In my opinion, Bautista screwed up here. And what is the consequence of that mistake? He destroyed the entire team & rider's preparation and prudence for Nicky, Rossi, and DePuniet. This is why when going into a first turn you have to be extra careful. Yes, stuff is going to happen because there is little space and time to make split decisions and reactions, therefore, work out how to do it carefully is the lesson. The Ducati's took a prudent line on the outside, but that was counting on the guys inside not to .... up. One did, and caused a chain reaction. The term "racing incident" is lame.
Click to expand...

You say "take" the outside line. Alviro was already on that line leading up to turn 1. It was Dovi whi went to "take" that line.
 
levigarrett said:
Why did Bautista feel the need to walk to the Ducati pits to apologize? He did that because he felt the incident wasn't his fault? Being little more than an ignorant spectator (as am I) I'd let Bautista's behavior post incident lead us to conclude where blame should be placed.
Click to expand...

I didn't hear him oppoligise, it looked like he was telling Nicky it wasn't his fault the his gestures.
 
Evolution said:
I see. So the race footage shows otherwise, and we can not come up with a plausible explanation- but hey, the nice guy felt the urge to applogise, so lets nail him for that.

This is even lamer.
Click to expand...



I'm not "nailing" him for anything. I'm not terribly upset with what happened. The first few corners of these races are always the most dangerous. I don't think Bautista was being particularly over exuberant. He was doing his best to position himself and on this occasion it didn't work out. I think he's a good guy and a thoughtful competitor. Nonetheless, again, he'd not have made that walk to the red pit box if he felt the incident was not his doing. I inferred only that in my post. I'll let his behavior be the judge and I suspect we should hold nothing against him and simply move on.
 
chopperman said:
Im old enough to see the difference between humour and being patronised.
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Wow! Yer being really paranoid Mate. My comment was absolutely not directed at you.

It was just a general comment on the tendency by all of us to bend our perspective

according to our likes and dislikes. We're I to all of a sudden suffer a lack of statesmenship

and in a moment of anger attack you - I'd be much more direct.

Cheers,

K



BTW - you're right about the first part. You're old enough. Oops. My damned smilies aren't working.
 
chopperman said:
I didn't hear him oppoligise, it looked like he was telling Nicky it wasn't his fault the his gestures.
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Ok, fine. Either way. You could be right. I don't know. To me, it looked like he felt culpable and made the appropriate sporting apologies.



I'm losing interest in this discussion. The season is over and frankly none of the participants in this accident has had their season made or broken by this weekend's events.



I'll leave this blame game to you gentleman.
 
bonnielass said:
Yep quite right, that was Dovi trying to take the same piece of track that Bautista was already on. Dovi's mistake, he was trying too hard to make a point, about losing his ride, and he put that point before safety, he was just going for it.
Click to expand...

That was my take on it right from the start.
 
First corner, that's just two guys going for the same bit of tarmac. Dovi is ahead and inside, drifts outside a bit to get the line. Bautista is outside and looked to be going for an early turn in. If I see any blame in the incident, I'd look at Bautista as he's behind Dovi and goes for the early turn in. That said, anyone looking into this too much is making mountains out of molehills. There have been far worse turn one mistakes. It's just unfortunate this relatively minor mistake resulted in so much collateral damage.



Josh Hayes certainly didn't do himself any harm with that result. That said, I was a little disappointed to see him finish 10 seconds behind a test rider. Seventh is a very respectable result, but correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Aoyama and Barbera got caught up in the first corner, Abraham fell off, and I have to believe that Elias and Capirossi had a coming together or both ran on because both were in front of Nakasuga and Hayes just a few laps prior to the finish. A great result for sure from Hayes, but in normal conditions, I think he's lucky to get a point. Sorry to be the buzzkill.
 
levigarrett said:
Why did Bautista feel the need to walk to the Ducati pits to apologize? He did that because he felt the incident wasn't his fault? Being little more than an ignorant spectator (as am I) I'd let Bautista's behavior post incident lead us to conclude where blame should be placed.
Click to expand...



I knew somebody would say this. However - we do not actually know what was said. He may well have said, "Sorry Bro, but Dovi took

out my front wheel." Until I read an authentic interview where Bautista acknowledges fault, I'll put the blame with Dovi.
 
Austin said:
First corner, that's just two guys going for the same bit of tarmac. Dovi is ahead and inside, drifts outside a bit to get the line. Bautista is outside and looked to be going for an early turn in. If I see any blame in the incident, I'd look at Bautista as he's behind Dovi and goes for the early turn in. That said, anyone looking into this too much is making mountains out of molehills. There have been far worse turn one mistakes. It's just unfortunate this relatively minor mistake resulted in so much collateral damage.



Josh Hayes certainly didn't do himself any harm with that result. That said, I was a little disappointed to see him finish 10 seconds behind a test rider. Seventh is a very respectable result, but correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Aoyama and Barbera got caught up in the first corner, Abraham fell off, and I have to believe that Elias and Capirossi had a coming together or both ran on because both were in front of Nakasuga and Hayes just a few laps prior to the finish. A great result for sure from Hayes, but in normal conditions, I think he's lucky to get a point. Sorry to be the buzzkill.
Click to expand...



That test rider tests which machines? How many hours of time does said rider have in the saddle of a Yamaha GP machine? Under those circumstances, I think Hayes performed fairly admirably. These are idiosyncratic machines, that must be taken into consideration no?
 
Keshav said:
I knew somebody would say this. However - we do not actually know what was said. He may well have said, "Sorry Bro, but Dovi took

out my front wheel." Until I read an authentic interview where Bautista acknowledges fault, I'll put the blame with Dovi.
Click to expand...



I'll direct you to post #133 above
<
 
Keshav said:
I knew somebody would say this. However - we do not actually know what was said. He may well have said, "Sorry Bro, but Dovi took

out my front wheel." Until I read an authentic interview where Bautista acknowledges fault, I'll put the blame with Dovi.
Click to expand...

Ok, reading this it apears i may have takewn your earlier comment wrong. Sorry but i thought you were implying i was blaming Dovi out of a disloike. In fact i like dovi more than Alviro buit still see it as a dovi mistake.
 
Austin said:
First corner, that's just two guys going for the same bit of tarmac. Dovi is ahead and inside, drifts outside a bit to get the line. Bautista is outside and looked to be going for an early turn in. If I see any blame in the incident, I'd look at Bautista as he's behind Dovi and goes for the early turn in. That said, anyone looking into this too much is making mountains out of molehills. There have been far worse turn one mistakes. It's just unfortunate this relatively minor mistake resulted in so much collateral damage.



Josh Hayes certainly didn't do himself any harm with that result. That said, I was a little disappointed to see him finish 10 seconds behind a test rider. Seventh is a very respectable result, but correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Aoyama and Barbera got caught up in the first corner, Abraham fell off, and I have to believe that Elias and Capirossi had a coming together or both ran on because both were in front of Nakasuga and Hayes just a few laps prior to the finish. A great result for sure from Hayes, but in normal conditions, I think he's lucky to get a point. Sorry to be the buzzkill.
Click to expand...



Whoever it is that's turns out to be responsible - it was an error and I do think, "racing incident" in this case is applicable. It was an error

but not and egregious error, like that clown act at the beginning of the season wherein Rossi took out Stoner. There's a world of difference between the two incidents.
 

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