Valencia 2 day 2017 merrygoround

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I actually find him quite entertaining, his window smashing was a non event and funny if anything. Just him being a .... and locking his keys in his car, god knows how though, I didn't even know you could do that with cars anymore. Nothing wrong with being colourful, Barry Sheene was quite the character in his day from what I hear. Guy Martin is one also.

All true, but if you were his employer you may have a different view as whilst we know guys get hurt training, the risk of injury by unneccessary off track behaviours needs to be tempered.

As for colourful, well he is no automaton which is great (IMO) as the political speak is boring as parliamentary question time, but many of the comments that have been attributed to him are rather, well, egocentric.



An interview with Honda's Livio Suppo explained how all riders have "super ego's" as he put it, Ianonne is no different, definitely not the first or the last. Marc had issues with his ego to, his 'all or nothing' approach was spectacular to witness compared to 2016 and him settling for safe points (but winning the championship). Ianonne will work it out for himself I guess, in the mean time its loads of fun for us as spectators to watch. His riding is definitely not boring thats for sure.

If you go back through my posts you will find that I have always stated that for any athlete to achieve at the top, they must have a decently large ego of the self-belief variety but it is managing that ego that is or can determine the difference between a genuine top flight rider and a nearly there rider (and of course, we are talking elite either way)

Thing is, and it may be harsh, I do not think that Ianonne will work it out himself but hope that Brivio gets involved as he will work it out of Ianonne, and if he cannot than we shall see Ianonne as another 'what could he have been' rider rather than a 'how good was he' rider post retirement
 
With the attention was focused on Vinales & Lorenzo, Zarco hasn't got enough credit for putting up a methodical but impressive performance on both days.

He may sit behind Folger (decent job by him too) in 11th place on the lap chart, but take a closer a look at his general pace and you'll find him a good second faster average, and not too far off the big boys from the factory teams.

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I think there was a lot of talk about Zarco. He did a great job, he is the kind of guy who wants to understand everything that is going on around him. I was expecting him to improve with each lap and he did. Herve Poncharal is also delighted. He called him a diesel. And he is, he takes his time and when he is comfortable he delivers.

Herve also joked during the red flag that this might upset Zarco, because he wanted to do 220 laps that day. He really is a hard worker.

He is a quiet guy, not like Rins. People expect too much from Rins I think. But it's his fault. He is a spoiled brat.
 
Honda has multiple wind tunnels at their disposal. They build jets after all. But saying they have a wind tunnel and can out-spend Ducati on research into that area so Ducati shouldn't pursue it doesn't make sense. Honda also have an advanced robotic and artificial intelligence division that produced Asimo and was heavily influential in the direction that electronics in MotoGP have taken when Honda's GP program began borrowing from that team. By that logic, Ducati shouldn't invest in electronic advancements because Honda might outspend them.

Sure, Honda has a lot of experience and resources that they could pour into aero, but the fact remains that Ducati still pulled a coup with their idea and design. Even Honda's top rider has said that the single biggest advancement in the bike that helped him win the championship was along the trails that Ducati blazed ahead. There is also the fact that throwing money at a problem does not mean that you come to the correct, or best, solution. Honda has certainly been pouring money into "fixing" the RC, but for all of the changes that they've been doing their biggest gains seem to be using large aero packages (a la Ducati) and changing the engine to be closer to the one used by.... Ducati.

And then, of course, while complaining mightily about aero, Honda still invests in research to accomplish the same without making it so obvious.

I'm not saying Ducati should not do it. The point is, it is going to be a loosing battle for them against Honda, as you have pointed out in you 1st paragraph. It is what I was telling motochit head without spelling it out to him. In his simply mind he believes that VW group is going to dump a crap load of money against a company with heavy aeronautics & robotics knowledge. If that was the case they would have went all out for Marques. They Ducati/VW/Audi/Bentley/Bugatti/Lamborghini/Porsche & Marlboro said they would not get into a bidding war with Honda over Marques. We all know how that financial burden worked out for yamaha.

Shuhei Nakamoto said:
If it comes down to an aerodynamic war, Honda is more than ready for it. The knowledge is there…and the money is too.






.
 

Depends a little on whether their bike needs such aids more imo, which is why it was they who devised the winglets in the first place.

Whether they choose to engage in an aerodynamic war with Honda on this particular battlefield is another question, but again imo MotoVudu is correct in this instance and Audi do have the technical and financial resources to engage Honda if they chose to do so, and Gigi equally could make the statement Nakamoto has made. Perhaps Nakamoto is going to mutual assured destruction and guaranteeing both marques will go broke in the event of such a war.
 
True! But the edge would go to the one who has the aeronautics advantage. What moto poo keeps over looking is this bit below

Shuhei Nakamoto said:
“Look, let me tell you something you don’t know,” Nakamoto prefaced, before revealing an intriguing and relevant event. “More than 20 years ago at Honda, we built the aerodynamically perfect bike. We tested it at Suzuka and it lapped over a second faster per lap than the bike we were racing with…more than one second.”

This is not new to Honda on a bike.
 
Whether they choose to engage in an aerodynamic war with Honda on this particular battlefield is another question, but again imo MotoVudu is correct in this instance and Audi do have the technical and financial resources to engage Honda if they chose to do so,

Technical? Without a doubt. Financial? That is questionable given they have just lost billions in the Emissions cheating scandal, and they are dropping their motorsport projects like flies. Their WEC program is gone, as is WRC.

True! But the edge would go to the one who has the aeronautics advantage. What moto poo keeps over looking is this bit below

.

Nakamoto also claimed the customer RCV Customer bike lapped within 0.3s of the Factory Repsol Honda...
 
Technical? Without a doubt. Financial? That is questionable given they have just lost billions in the Emissions cheating scandal, and they are dropping their motorsport projects like flies. Their WEC program is gone, as is WRC.



Nakamoto also claimed the customer RCV Customer bike lapped within 0.3s of the Factory Repsol Honda...


With Stoner riding it!
 
With Stoner riding it!

That's right Stoner put it within .3 of a second of Ayoma or another tests riders times. They've should've known what a ....... fail that bike was going to be.
 
Technical? Without a doubt. Financial? That is questionable given they have just lost billions in the Emissions cheating scandal, and they are dropping their motorsport projects like flies. Their WEC program is gone, as is WRC.


Nakamoto also claimed the customer RCV Customer bike lapped within 0.3s of the Factory Repsol Honda...

Yep. He tries to tell us that Crutchlow has the same bike as Pedrosa and MM. I don't believe it for a second.

Audi is gone from WEC partly due to $$ but also because they were pushing the clean diesel story which doesn't work anymore. Porsche remains so VW presence in WEC is much as it was for the last 10 years. Audi is off to Formula E now.

As for the 20 year old "aerodynamically perfect" bike? First, nothings perfect. Technology and our understanding of aerodynamics, lift, drag, downforce have changed significantly over the last 20 years. It's an interesting line to throw out there but it means nothing.
 
As for the 20 year old "aerodynamically perfect" bike? First, nothings perfect. Technology and our understanding of aerodynamics, lift, drag, downforce have changed significantly over the last 20 years. It's an interesting line to throw out there but it means nothing.

The gains in analytic processing power alone in the intervening 20-odd years would make the claim of 'aerodynamically perfect' laughable.
 
True! But the edge would go to the one who has the aeronautics advantage. What moto poo keeps over looking is this bit below



This is not new to Honda on a bike.

You however are making the assumption that the advantage would
be as a result of how much money is spent. Whereas... it's not
unusual for an advantage to grow out of one or more people having
a creative epiphany or simply (pardon the cliche) thinking outside
the box.

Look at how many times Ducati has been on the podium in the last
few seasons despite having a smaller budget than Honda - and they've
done so with riders that lack the experience and talent (purchased at
high cost) of the top riders at Honda and Yamaha.

When Rossi was at Ducati they were throwing money at the damned
bike by the truckload and it didn't help. It was a shift in the way Ducati
engineers attacked the problems that resulted in the current bike.

And Honda, despite their enormous R&D budget have pulled some
enormous technical boners over the last 30 years - because they're
so rigid and often quite arrogant regarding their technical prowess.

Ducati's engineering team are very much on the upswing. Just
look at their power advantage and their ability to put that power
the rear wheel in a useful way - despite the use of the off-the-shelf
electronics. More than a bigger budget, they need a better rider
- and now, they may just have that.
 
I'm not saying Ducati should not do it. The point is, it is going to be a loosing battle for them against Honda, as you have pointed out in you 1st paragraph.

I disagree on two levels. First, by that argument every battle is a losing one against Honda. They are the biggest and best funded team on the grid, bar none. They can, and have, out spend any one at any time in any area. If that is the case, why should anyone show up?

Second, just because Honda can outspend the competition does not mean that their solution will be the best; nor does it mean that they will implement the right solution in the best way. Smaller, less well funded team can achieve great results by being forced to think of a problem in a different way because of their reduced budget. Ironically, aerodynamics - the very thing being argued against - is the perfect example of this.

Reading between the lines, Honda and Ducati were actually experiencing very similar problems: brutal power delivery, difficult to control motorcycle, reduced feel, etc. Take away Marquez and the Repsol team was doing pretty dismally.... for Repsol at least. Much like Ducati. Honda approached the problem by throwing a lot of money on engine management, traction control, chassis construction and geometry. It was not uncommon for them to show up with enough parts to build three completely different bikes for their riders to test on a race weekend. Without the budget to do that, Gigi had Ducati take a different approach: wings.

All these years later it seems like a simple thing but when Ducati first took the field they were the absolute laughing stock of GP. Now every team has followed their lead and there is a lot of evidence that they provide a tangible benefit to the stability and handling of the bikes that's not just in the riders' heads (as was sometimes stated).

Perhaps the point isn't so much that Ducati can outspend Honda, but the fact that Ducati has a backer who also has deep pockets and can therefore spend sufficient money to come up with a competitive solution regardless of how much money Honda throws at a problem. They have already shown that their creativity can fundamentally change the direction of MotoGP.

True! But the edge would go to the one who has the aeronautics advantage. What moto poo keeps over looking is this bit below

This is not new to Honda on a bike.

Not true at all. The edge would go to the team who could make use of the technology. An excellent example of this from the automotive world would be the Nissan GTR. When it first came out there were more powerful cars, more expensive cars, cars with more exotic materials. It beat them all. Why? Because it made enough power and had enough traction control that it simply... went. So you could throw money at your Ferrari and Porsche to make them lighter and more powerful, but while you were spinning tires on corner exit the GTR was accellerating to the next turn because their car put just enough power to the ground.

Also, while the quote from Nakamoto is intriguing, there would appear to be some inconsistencies between both the quote itself and the significance you assign to it (and that he wants the reader to assign to it). First, an aerodynamically "perfect" bike would look nothing like what you see today. The rider is still, by far, the biggest object of drag on the bike. The rider is essentially a dynamic, unstable parachute. So to be aerodynamically perfect you would have to shield the rider entirely, at which point you would end up with something along the lines of the LitMotors machine. Secondly, if the entire thing was so difficult to ride that it was unusable after one lap (which is just 2 mile give or take) then that is a far cry from "perfection" for a racing machine that needs to be rideable for ten times that distance. "Perfection" is almost always a compromise and it depends on the problem that is being solved. If the race is 10 laps (problem to be solved: navigate 10 laps of a given racetrack) and your machine is unusable after 2, then a 10 speed bicycle is actually a more perfect solution because it actually achieves the stated goal. The way I read Nakamoto's quote is that the bike, by itself, had what they determined to be an ideal aerodynamic rating but it made the machine itself almost unrideable. Not exactly perfect.

The other problem is that we don't know that other manufacturers haven't done something similar in the past. Yamaha also had "faster" bikes that they could have used, for example, but ended up choosing the crossplane crank (which Rossi and Furusawa described as the "slower" bike) because they felt it worked best overall. Considering how dominant it was, it would be hard to argue against that logic. Saying that "it's not new to Honda on a bike" seems to imply that other manufacturers haven't done something similar, which appears erroneous. Also, for all of their experience, Honda was still beaten to the punch on a simple solution that solved many of their problems once they copied it.

It is entirely possible that Honda is more than happy to continue throwing incredible amounts of money at the advancements that they have made and used to steer the direction of MotoGP (seamless gearbox, electronics, etc) instead of such a visible example of someone else's innovation.
 
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