Valencia 2 day 2017 merrygoround

evo9 said:

You do realize that Honda has a wind tunnel at their disposal. Nakamoto drop this hint at Gigi to let him know it would be a loosing battle for Ducati.

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You do realize that AUDI/Ducati has a wind tunnel at their disposal as well? The VW Group is far bigger than Honda Motor. Nakamoto better be careful who he threatens! He is about to write checks he can't cash.

Doesn't everybody own a wind tunnel?

I know Akrapović (exhausts) does and his budget is not limitless. Since 2009 he even lets a Slovenian ski jumper train in it.

Motosport is now an aero race and not having one can put you years behind competition.

moto vudu said:

You do realize that AUDI/Ducati has a wind tunnel at their disposal as well? The VW Group is far bigger than Honda Motor. Nakamoto better be careful who he threatens! He is about to write checks he can't cash.

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OK .... head who has a stronger history in F1? Last time I care to check no factions of the VW Group has ever won an F1 championship. Reading between the lines is not your strong suit, so we have to spell things out to you. This was the point Nakamoto San was making to Gigi back then. Having a wind tunnel without some real world experience is only half the the equation. Not putting VW Group with this. But clearly you missed the bit on the wind tunnel test bike Nakamoto San said they built that was faster but tiresome for the rider.

evo9 said:

OK .... head who has a stronger history in F1? Last time I care to check no factions of the VW Group has ever won an F1 championship. Reading between the lines is not your strong suit, so we have to spell things out to you. This was the point Nakamoto San was making to Gigi back then. Having a wind tunnel without some real world experience is only half the the equation. Not putting VW Group with this. But clearly you missed the bit on the wind tunnel test bike Nakamoto San said they built that was faster but tiresome for the rider.

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I guess you've never heard of prototype endurance racing! Do some research on Audi's endurance racing history. You don't think aerodynamics plays a huge role in prototype endurance racing?





I don't care about a wind tunnel test bike HRC may* have built that nobody could ride. That doesn't mean HRC will win the aero battle between manufacturers.

moto vudu said:

I guess you've never heard of prototype endurance racing! Do some research on Audi's endurance racing history. You don't think aerodynamics plays a huge role in prototype endurance racing?

I don't care about a wind tunnel test bike HRC may* have built that nobody could ride. That doesn't mean HRC will win the aero battle between manufacturers.

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OK genius...... maybe this will help you

Formula One (also Formula 1 or F1 and officially the FIA Formula One World Championship) is the highest class of single-seat auto racing that is sanctioned by the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile

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Endurance racing is a form of motorsport racing which is meant to test the durability of equipment and endurance of participants. Teams of multiple drivers attempt to cover a large distance in a single event, with participants given a break with the ability to change during the race.

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Hope this is not too hard for you to figure out.

evo9 said:

You do realize that Honda has a wind tunnel at their disposal. Nakamoto drop this hint at Gigi to let him know it would be a loosing battle for Ducati.

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Honda has multiple wind tunnels at their disposal. They build jets after all. But saying they have a wind tunnel and can out-spend Ducati on research into that area so Ducati shouldn't pursue it doesn't make sense. Honda also have an advanced robotic and artificial intelligence division that produced Asimo and was heavily influential in the direction that electronics in MotoGP have taken when Honda's GP program began borrowing from that team. By that logic, Ducati shouldn't invest in electronic advancements because Honda might outspend them.

Sure, Honda has a lot of experience and resources that they could pour into aero, but the fact remains that Ducati still pulled a coup with their idea and design. Even Honda's top rider has said that the single biggest advancement in the bike that helped him win the championship was along the trails that Ducati blazed ahead. There is also the fact that throwing money at a problem does not mean that you come to the correct, or best, solution. Honda has certainly been pouring money into "fixing" the RC, but for all of the changes that they've been doing their biggest gains seem to be using large aero packages (a la Ducati) and changing the engine to be closer to the one used by.... Ducati.

And then, of course, while complaining mightily about aero, Honda still invests in research to accomplish the same without making it so obvious.

evo9 said:

OK genius...... maybe this will help you





Hope this is not too hard for you to figure out.

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Capt. Obvious... what exactly is your point? You previously mentioned Honda's involvement with F1 racing like that gives them an edge in aero development for MotoGP. You don't seem to understand the amount of R&D that also goes into prototype endurance cars. Audi is not clueless when it comes to aerodynamics.

evo9 said:

OK .... head who has a stronger history in F1? Last time I care to check no factions of the VW Group has ever won an F1 championship. Reading between the lines is not your strong suit, so we have to spell things out to you. This was the point Nakamoto San was making to Gigi back then. Having a wind tunnel without some real world experience is only half the the equation. Not putting VW Group with this. But clearly you missed the bit on the wind tunnel test bike Nakamoto San said they built that was faster but tiresome for the rider.

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Auto union had a fair history in F1 before WW2. Probably not much aero in those days though.

AJV80 said:

I'm glad they had gotten rid of the wings, they look like puss and if they stayed I could imagine manufactures getting to a stage of putting them on consumer bikes to add some BS wow factor.

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As someone who likes how puss looks, I couldn't disagree with you more.

To your point though, they are already on consumer bikes... in fact they were on a consumer bike before they hit MotoGP.

The ZX-12R is the first bike I can remember offhand that had winglets.

Hollywood said:

Wouldn't the 2017 bike have a different body on it? That in itself is a variable, so adding the wings to the 2017 body (an additional variable) would yield data that the team could not draw accurate conclusions from.

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I dont think they changed the bodywork on the 17 bikes for the same reasons. I'm sure new bodywork will come before next season though, most likely have some aerodynamic properties to the design that they wont want to share with the other teams just yet.

moto vudu said:

Capt. Obvious... what exactly is your point? You previously mentioned Honda's involvement with F1 racing like that gives them an edge in aero development for MotoGP. You don't seem to understand the amount of R&D that also goes into prototype endurance cars. Audi is not clueless when it comes to aerodynamics.

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At least as much aero as the F1 cars although probably with different intent.

AJV80 said:

I dont think they changed the bodywork on the 17 bikes for the same reasons. I'm sure new bodywork will come before next season though, most likely have some aerodynamic properties to the design that they wont want to share with the other teams just yet.

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Perhaps they have devised something which they think acts almost identically to the winglets.

michaelm said:

Perhaps they have devised something which they think acts almost identically to the winglets.

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Good point, could be the case that they know they have something coming that will give similar downforce properties making testing wiht the winglets a logical approach.

They would have to be careful though, the way the rule is written about the fairing design states that the technical director has the final say in whether or not an aero body work design is allowed or not.

Marquez happy with new bike, says it instills confidence unlike last years bike. With natural progression, thinks it will be a very good package. Didn't go for time attack and never used new Michelin front. Says Vinales is a title contender

MotoGP, Marquez: "Viñales will be a contender for the Championship" | GPone.com

Vinales should be a title contender, but I want to see him get more aggressive! There were a couple times this season where he got stuck behind a rider as Rossi and Marquez made their way to the front. I hope Vinales isn't going to be "too nice" to be a consistent front runner. Hopefully he's learning from Rossi and Marquez to block pass & go!

moto vudu said:

Vinales should be a title contender, but I want to see him get more aggressive! There were a couple times this season where he got stuck behind a rider as Rossi and Marquez made their way to the front. I hope Vinales isn't going to be "too nice" to be a consistent front runner. Hopefully he's learning from Rossi and Marquez to block pass & go!

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A lot of the time when he got aggressive he outbraked himself and lost position straight away. It's a real weakness for him especially against the like of Rossi, Lorenzo and Marquez who more often than not can make a pass stick against guys of similar pace. Vinaeles has had trouble with guys that he is much faster than.

p4p1 said:

A lot of the time when he got aggressive he outbraked himself and lost position straight away. It's a real weakness for him especially against the like of Rossi, Lorenzo and Marquez who more often than not can make a pass stick against guys of similar pace. Vinaeles has had trouble with guys that he is much faster than.

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Right, he just needs to improve his overtaking.

michaelm said:

Auto union had a fair history in F1 before WW2. Probably not much aero in those days though.

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Yeah, but but but...(pedantry time)
F1 didn't start until after WW2 and for years, the Hun wasn't allowed to compete.
Auto Union's GP cars and HQ got stuck behind the Iron Curtain.
And VW didn't have anything to do with AU until they bought it off Merc (there's an F1 connection ) in the 60's
And Audi didnt really come into its own until the 80s.
And the pricks still claim a motorcycle racing "heritage".
And they've pulled out of LMP racing

AJV80 said:

Good point, could be the case that they know they have something coming that will give similar downforce properties making testing wiht the winglets a logical approach.

They would have to be careful though, the way the rule is written about the fairing design states that the technical director has the final say in whether or not an aero body work design is allowed or not.

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While I understand this rule as a way to REALLY enforce the "no aero" restrictions. Having a technical director with veto powers is ......... Especially in so-called "prototype" racing.
Either write the rulebook properly or cop the consequences,. To continue the exchange between Arrabb/22/me if someone can dream up a way to get aero without winglets, they should be bloody applauded, not banned.
Next will be NASCAR-style body templates, ffs