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True or False: The MSMA Will Let the Riders Control the Race Outcomes in 2027?

The 2027 formula will give riders more control over the race results?

  • True

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mostly True

    Votes: 1 16.7%
  • Slightly True

    Votes: 2 33.3%
  • Neutral

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Slightly False

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mostly False

    Votes: 2 33.3%
  • False

    Votes: 1 16.7%

  • Total voters
    6
Joined Mar 2007
8K Posts | 2K+
Texas
One of the concepts making its way through the press and the MSMA is the notion of rider control. It's interesting because we discuss it regularly, but the MSMA have only recently pledged support to allowing the sportsmen control the race results. Perhaps aero tie-ups with F1 teams to skirt the F1 limitations are less likely now that Liberty is purchasing Dorna?

Will the MSMA actually restrict electronics and eliminate ride height to put the riders back in control?

I'm voting slightly true. Hopefully, the MSMA will actually curb aerodynamics and eliminate ride height devices; however, I suspect they will begin eroding rider control the moment the 2027 regulations are ratified. Loopholes in the current regulations ultimately allowed aero and ride height to conquer the sport. I don't think the MSMA can seal all of the trap doors and secret passages that engineers and lawyers can use to game the system. We'll see.
 
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One of the concepts making its way through the press and the MSMA is the notion of rider control. It's interesting because we discuss it regularly, but the MSMA have only recently pledged support to allowing the sportsmen control the race results. Perhaps aero tie-ups with F1 teams to skirt the F1 limitations are less likely now that Liberty is purchasing Dorna?

Will the MSMA actually restrict electronics and eliminate ride height to put the riders back in control?

I'm voting slightly true. Hopefully, the MSMA will actually curb aerodynamics and eliminate ride height devices; however, I suspect they will begin eroding rider control the moment the 2027 regulations are ratified. Loopholes in the current regulations ultimately allowed aero and ride height to conquer the sport. I don't think the MSMA can seal all of the trap doors and secret passages that engineers and lawyers can use to game the system. We'll see.

Great topic for discussion lex.

I've been thinking about this before you posted this thread and put into words better than what I could.

I think Liberty are going to exert pressure on the MSMA to lose the shapeshifters, aero appendages, and so forth. I certainly think Honda and Yamaha will be pushing heavily to get all of stuff out of the sport since it's more than obvious it does not play to any of their strengths. I think they can still build race winning motorcycles, but as I said elsewhere, motorcycles, as they aren't cut out for this aerodynamic war that Ducati and Aprilia are hellbent on maintaining. I also think KTM would prefer it all to be gone as well.

I think the electronics are here to stay for better or worse. It's a matter of how much emphasis there is on them. I also think that's beneficial for costs as if you suddenly dial it down drastically, it's going to become even more expensive to build a GP bike that is fast but isn't going to kill the rider when opening the throttle like in the 500cc days. But maybe the argument I would make is that the current ECU might still be too advanced for GP, and what I mean by that is they are still capable of taming now 300BHP GP bikes as good as ever. We see far less in the way of high-sides than probably at any point in GP history.

I think to put the skill back in the hand of the rider and so forth, there needs to be considerations made with regards to the ECU and how much influence it has on everything engine related. I will say, allowing guys to go WOT in corners because the ECU is controlling all of the power output based on other variables might be over and done with if you reduce ECU capabilities. Plus the other thought that popped into my head was the fact that the bikes have the GPS/location technology so every single corner can be programmed into the ECU for power output, maybe eliminate all of that and make it about true throttle control like in the old days?

But as far as it happening?

I'm going to be hopeful that maybe something like this truly does happen. There's no ABS or traction control in Formula 1. They seem to manage just fine without it.

The other thing is, I feel it also depends on what Liberty's idea of the sport is. They're an American company, so are they looking to see stuff like this from the 500cc World Championship?



We're going to find out one way or another though what the future holds. Only a couple of years to go.
 
Safety first, the electronics should continue to reduce the risk of high sides

Increase rider input to enable more rider skill to shine above those with less rider skill

Increase braking distances to enable more overtaking locations

Decrease cost

Allow a bit of verbal biffo in the gravel trap. I recall one incident where the rider raced over to the other rider to practice his Saxon language and then realizing that the other rider was hurt changed to assisting him. We might call each other C***’* but at the end of the day we are mates
 
I think Liberty are going to exert pressure on the MSMA to lose the shapeshifters, aero appendages, and so forth. I certainly think Honda and Yamaha will be pushing heavily to get all of stuff out of the sport since it's more than obvious it does not play to any of their strengths. I think they can still build race winning motorcycles, but as I said elsewhere, motorcycles, as they aren't cut out for this aerodynamic war that Ducati and Aprilia are hellbent on maintaining. I also think KTM would prefer it all to be gone as well.

I think the electronics are here to stay for better or worse. It's a matter of how much emphasis there is on them. I also think that's beneficial for costs as if you suddenly dial it down drastically, it's going to become even more expensive to build a GP bike that is fast but isn't going to kill the rider when opening the throttle like in the 500cc days. But maybe the argument I would make is that the current ECU might still be too advanced for GP, and what I mean by that is they are still capable of taming now 300BHP GP bikes as good as ever. We see far less in the way of high-sides than probably at any point in GP history.

The interesting part is that Liberty can apply pressure from both sides. They can work to stop the F1-MotoGP alliance by acting on F1 teams and by acting on the MotoGP rulebook.

Aprilia use diffuser type aero, while Ducati use traditional wings. I’ve often wondered if they are running simulations for two working groups within the same F1 team. But if F1-MotoGP alliances are about dodging the F1 rulebook, can a tiny outfit like Aprilia stick around if they lose F1 money? They don’t even have a title sponsor.

That’s a tricky situation for Liberty to navigate. Will they be tempted to leave enough aero in place so the teams continue leaching a bit of money from F1? Or slam the door shut and possibly pay MotoGP teams more? Maybe get rid of wings, but leave CFD etc ungoverned so MotoGP teams can continue to piggyback off of F1 budgets?

I agree that the electronics will stick around for better and worse. The sport is too fast and too powerful, and the bikes are too heavy to ban all rider aid strategies, but maybe dialing back will be possible with the new engine formula.

2027 was already a tricky negotiation, especially if they want to bring BMW into the fold. Not sure if Liberty is making it easier or harder.
 
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2027 was already a tricky negotiation, especially if they want to bring BMW into the fold. Not sure if Liberty is making it easier or harder.
This is a dangerous road to ride down imo. And by "this", I mean changing to rules to try and entice a manufacturer. F1 chased VAG (VW) for YEARS. The current hybrid formula was created specifically for them because they said they would join if so. Then they messed around for years and F1 was lumped with 4 PU suppliers, of which 2 had awful engines in the early days (Honda and Renault) because the costs for a new manufacturer are so prohibitive with regards to engines, to the point where they are now changing the regulations for 2026 to eliminate some of the hybrid technology and make the engines less expensive. VAG are finally joining under the Audi guise, but it has taken a lot of time, and the selling of a lot of souls to do it.

I've never been comfortable with Auto manufacturers having teams, because they are too fickle and too at mercy from their boards. In F1 there have been far more OEM manufacturer teams that have entered, then left the sport than independents. I'm thinking Toyota, Honda, BMW themselves. Look at their record in WSBK, in and out. In MotoGP Suzuki have been similar.
 
This is a dangerous road to ride down imo. And by "this", I mean changing to rules to try and entice a manufacturer. F1 chased VAG (VW) for YEARS. The current hybrid formula was created specifically for them because they said they would join if so. Then they messed around for years and F1 was lumped with 4 PU suppliers, of which 2 had awful engines in the early days (Honda and Renault) because the costs for a new manufacturer are so prohibitive with regards to engines, to the point where they are now changing the regulations for 2026 to eliminate some of the hybrid technology and make the engines less expensive. VAG are finally joining under the Audi guise, but it has taken a lot of time, and the selling of a lot of souls to do it.

I've never been comfortable with Auto manufacturers having teams, because they are too fickle and too at mercy from their boards. In F1 there have been far more OEM manufacturer teams that have entered, then left the sport than independents. I'm thinking Toyota, Honda, BMW themselves. Look at their record in WSBK, in and out. In MotoGP Suzuki have been similar.

Yeah, hopefully the GPC is not trying to court BMW with rules concessions, but who knows what Liberty will demand.

Pit Beirer mentioned that some of the MSMA members want to eliminating satellite bikes for an F1-style PU supply arrangement. It was a remarkable claim from a team boss who currently operates a satellite bike team under the GasGas brand, and whose employer recently acquired a controlling interest in MV Agusta, but PU supply and independent constructors is a thing. It might explain why Bagnaia famously complained about the Ducati satellite bikes being too good.

Personally, I don't see it happening. It would drain Moto2 of chassis suppliers, which only makes sense if Moto2 is getting a reboot (something that resembles Moto3). Independent constructors would be supplying more than half of the grid, which doesn't seem feasible, and they'd be spending more money that satellite teams to likely achieve worse lap times. Independent constructors would limit the advantages of data sharing, and relieve pressure on manufacturers to supply 4 bikes each season, but it seems a bit crazy.
 
I agree, I don't see that happening. When was the last GOOD independent team with their own chassis? Team Roberts? Certainly none of the CRT could be classified as good.
 
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I dont see this happening, this is a prototype series engineering and developments are part of the game.... as for BMW, MotoGP does not need BMW as much as BMW need MotoGP, if they are really planning on joining the grid n 20027 then they are probably already in the early stages of designing a bike.
 
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