Traction Control

Most people, with the exception of Tom, know traction control is hurting our favorite sport. How is Dorna supposed to get rid of it?

The Big Bang was TC in a way. Dorna couldn't ban that.

After the big bang came fuel management systems that made engines more effecient and allowed engineers to smooth power delivery. Dorna encouraged manufacturers to develop fuel delivery systems to improve engine efficiency.

Now we have full blown wheel sensors that give acceleration data that a computer monitors constantly.

How are Dorna supposed to stop TC now that electronics are required to run these machines? As long as there is a computer on board, engineers will figure out ways to make the bikes hook-up without exceptional rider skill.

Should we give up now? Are there things (like rear wheel steer technologies) that will help break the overbearing grip TC has on race results?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Aug 28 2007, 04:25 PM) [snapback]87192[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Everyone knows traction control is hurting our favorite sport.


I disagree, i think TC is positive.

I saw the F1 race of Turkey. I tuned in to see what would happen at the same track that fielded such a great GP race. The F1 race was totally processional but I was impressed with the speed these cars ran around the track. What is my point? Technology helps makes them go around faster but does little for tight and close racing. How does NASCAR do it? It imposes strict rules to equalize all the vehicles. Perhaps some of the rules need tweaking to equalize the bikes within tolerances. About 8 teams regularly do not make the field in NASCAR, that's because all the cars have to be within a certain limit both on the top end and bottom end. Perhaps there can be something like this to even out the playing field.
Bring down cost, and increase the number of competitors on the docket so that we could have more teams competing for a spot on the grid. Just a thought. I know I'm dreaming, but I was just dreaming out loud. Here is a question for food for thought, how do 125s/250s manage to have close racing almost always till the end?

I think it would be impossible to police traction control in racing today. Suzuki was doing it in the AMA (when it was illegal) for a few years and was never busted for it.
I would love to take traction control out of all forms of racing and put racing back in the hands of the drivers/riders.

ive shouted out ban tc many times but i can understand both sides .a year ago i said we should have it because it is new prototype equipment on prototype bikes and we dont get riders bashed up through high sides.
i watched some gp2 races on tv and ive watch f1 on tv. f1 is a possession while gp2 is exciting because gp2 does not have tc and because of this i changed my mind.
i aint got a clue how dorna would tackle this but thats why there payed the big bucks.

Interestingly, F1 is using standard ECU's next year to police a ban on TC. It seems something like that may be the only realistic option. Or may be some kind of telemetry from the rear wheel that the FIM monitor, a skilled engineer should be able to tell the difference between a bike running with or without TC by looking at the data.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Aug 28 2007, 07:32 PM) [snapback]87243[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
ive shouted out ban tc many times but i can understand both sides .a year ago i said we should have it because it is new prototype equipment on prototype bikes and we dont get riders bashed up through high sides.
i watched some gp2 races on tv and ive watch f1 on tv. f1 is a possession while gp2 is exciting because gp2 does not have tc and because of this i changed my mind.
i aint got a clue how dorna would tackle this but thats why there payed the big bucks.

Thats a fair point, but the reason GP2 is exciting is more down to the way the chassis are designed, relying more on ground effect and mechanical grip than aerodynamic devices or 'winglets'. But I can only agree, TC and LC are bad for the sport. Forget the closeness of the racing, it detracts from rider skill, and thats unnacceptable in a category thats supposed to be the ultimate test for riders.

Screw the technology excuse, the bikes themselves are technologically advanced enough for me without all the electronics. I want to see sliding again.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Orrmate @ Aug 28 2007, 03:05 PM) [snapback]87257[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Screw the technology excuse, the bikes themselves are technologically advanced enough for me without all the electronics. I want to see sliding again.

So does Nicky Hayden. Ironically enough when they turned down his electronics, he started doing better. It's my opinion a computer can't create skill, it only hides ones deficiencies.

banning TC would be easy. just do like mamola said and have a guy walk up and down the grid right before the race with a pair of wirecutters and cut all the wheel sensors.

I think that traction control and electronic engine braking are very good things for the sport as a whole and bans would be very hard to police. An electronics balance could be achieved by banning the launch and wheelie control systems. This could be achieved by banning real time adjustments being made based on suspension travel sensors, and would make the bikes visually more thrilling, take away one of the main rider aids, and keep the technological progression and safety that TC brings us.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(drumfu @ Aug 28 2007, 03:03 PM) [snapback]87277[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
banning TC would be easy. just do like mamola said and have a guy walk up and down the grid right before the race with a pair of wirecutters and cut all the wheel sensors.

Still pretty trivial to implement TC by measuring engine and/or driveline revs. That's why it's so difficult to police - there are so many different places and ways to implement it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(L8Braker @ Aug 28 2007, 12:14 PM) [snapback]87263[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
It's my opinion a computer can't create skill, it only hides ones deficiencies.

Wow, words of wisdom. Excellent point!

Technology like Traction Control used in Motogp will benefit us eventually as we see it get Filtered into production bikes,in that sense i think TC is positive.
Can motogp do without it?? Would the tyres last race distance? Could you ride a bike with 260bhp to the limit without it?

Well thats my two cents...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Aug 28 2007, 07:20 PM) [snapback]87229[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Here is a question for food for thought, how do 125s/250s manage to have close racing almost always till the end?


They have a single tyre manufacturer (Dunlop).

TC is not responsible for boring races, it just prevents sliding, in 125cc they don't slide the bikes and they are still much fun.

OK now that I remember Toni Elias did slide 125cc bikes too, but him doesn't count!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(alex29 @ Aug 29 2007, 03:07 AM) [snapback]87367[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Technology like Traction Control used in Motogp will benefit us eventually as we see it get Filtered into production bikes,in that sense i think TC is positive.
Can motogp do without it?? Would the tyres last race distance? Could you ride a bike with 260bhp to the limit without it?

Well thats my two cents...


oh yeah - and when are we mere mortals going to ride 240 bhp. we (in the main) can't deal with half of that

: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ptk50 @ Aug 29 2007, 10:04 PM) [snapback]87432[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
oh yeah - and when are we mere mortals going to ride 240 bhp. we (in the main) can't deal with half of that

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(alex29 @ Aug 29 2007, 08:07 AM) [snapback]87367[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Technology like Traction Control used in Motogp will benefit us eventually as we see it get Filtered into production bikes,in that sense i think TC is positive.
Can motogp do without it?? Would the tyres last race distance? Could you ride a bike with 260bhp to the limit without it?

Well thats my two cents...

Well, from what i can see, the current bikes are designed and built specially to run with TC. If we banned it tommorow, I think it'd cause some serious issues, and it wouldn't be feasable. However, if they banned it for 2009 it would be possible, the manufacturers, riders and tyre companies would just have to approach it differently.