The Tire Question:

The Tire Question: Could Honda And Yamaha Switch To Bridgestones?

Courtesy of motogpmatters.com

The paddock is awash with rumors at Brno, and one of the most stubborn is not about riders or bikes, but about tires. With Michelin so far failing very publicly to come to terms with the new tire rules, the balance of power has shifted as far as tires are concerned, from Michelin to Bridgestone. The demise of the overnight tire shipment has removed what has turned out to be the sole advantage for Michelin, and more and more teams are looking to switch to winning rubber.

Now, the Spanish magazine Motociclismo.es is reporting that both Honda and Yamaha are evaluating a possible switch to Bridgestones, in an attempt to get back the ground they have lost to the Bridgestone-shod teams in the championship.

No official announcements have been made, and Lin Jarvis, Yamaha's Managing Director of Racing, would only say the following: "It's purey a technical question, and our engineers are evaluating the complete technical package for next year, including engines and tires, and other components. I really don't want to comment about this at this time, but we will definitely be make a decision soon about what the best way forward is for next year."

One reason the decision has not yet been taken is that the future of the tire rule, limiting riders to 14 front tires and 17 rear tires, all to be selected by 5pm Thursday, is far from certain. In an interview with Spanish daily AS.com, Dorna CEO Carmelo Ezpeleta stated his opposition to the tire rules, and hinted that there could be changes coming soon.

Hmmm........this article sounds reasonable, but it is making a lot of invalid assumptions.

First, Bridgestone are not really that amazing. They tires have improved vastly, but the appearance of their dominance is caused by the team they build tires for, Ducati. Furthermore, their next best customer, Suzuki, has made huge gains relative to Honda and Yamaha which have made lemons.

Both tire manufacturers have had their tires fall apart at races this season and as it stands right now, I think Bridgestone is only 4 podiums ahead this year. Half of that is a result of the rain, since Bridgestone have the Melandri/Vermeulen effect working in the damp.

It's pretty even.

I can see a situation where Yamaha might change because clearly the tires are not working for them at all. Either the compound is too hard and they bin it early, or the compound is too soft and they shred and melt.

Gresini hasn't embarassed Repsol this year, and Repsol aren't experiencing tire problems out of the norm so I don't think they will change.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Aug 22 2007, 01:42 AM) [snapback]86335[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Hmmm........this article sounds reasonable, but it is making a lot of invalid assumptions.

First, Bridgestone are not really that amazing. They tires have improved vastly, but the appearance of their dominance is caused by the team they build tires for, Ducati. Furthermore, their next best customer, Suzuki, has made huge gains relative to Honda and Yamaha which have made lemons.

Both tire manufacturers have had their tires fall apart at races this season and as it stands right now, I think Bridgestone is only 4 podiums ahead this year. Half of that is a result of the rain, since Bridgestone have the Melandri/Vermeulen effect working in the damp.

It's pretty even.

I can see a situation where Yamaha might change because clearly the tires are not working for them at all. Either the compound is too hard and they bin it early, or the compound is too soft and they shred and melt.

Gresini hasn't embarassed Repsol this year, and Repsol aren't experiencing tire problems out of the norm so I don't think they will change.


I 100% expect something to happen in Michelins favor since they are a European based Company as is the Moto GP series.It has the same flavor as the Ducati, WSB dish that was recently served up.Or maybe they will just quit like they did in F1.

I think Bridgestone willl wipe Michelin out of MotoGP. The Ducatis are not much better than the Honda.For example, in the last race at Brno, Pedrosa was posting top speeds similar to Stoner.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(crvlvr @ Aug 22 2007, 12:56 PM) [snapback]86430[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I think Bridgestone willl wipe Michelin out of MotoGP. The Ducatis are not much better than the Honda.For example, in the last race at Brno, Pedrosa was posting top speeds similar to Stoner.


I think top speed data might be misleading. Down the front straight, the 800's are at open throttle longer than the 990's. Conserving fuel on the straight is important. I'm pretty sure the Ducati is tuned via engine management to get to top gear as quickly as possible then it limits revs to keep the engine from drinking too much.


Like drag racing, if the Ducati hits 300kph halfway down the straight then cruises to 310 over the remainder of the straight, they still have a huge advantage over the people who are wide open and barely hit 310kph before braking into turn 1.

Don't think any of it will matter if the tyre rule causes this sort of .... next year. One make series will be on the cards for 09.

A switch at Yamaha or Honda could really kill the competitiveness of Michelin next year. If one of the factory teams go, I'd say Michelin will get pumped hard in 08. They need to get down on both knees to keep the Japs happy.

The factory Yamahas will be on Michelins next year, 100% positive. It's public knowledge that Bridgestone do not want to increase their current motoGP comittment for the time being. The biggest clue is what's going on at Yamaha. Firstly, Burgess quoted in the MCN ( cough ) as saying a move to Bridgestone for the factory Yamaha squad would be a mistake, a position I agree with. Burgess speaks, people listen. Michelin still have a shot. Not this year, it's too late but if they can get on a par with Bridgestone by this time next year then they'll save themselves from relegation to the 2nd division and lowly Dunlop status, perhaps only running in a couple of satellite teams and that would probably lead to a control tyre situation like Pirellis in WSBK, and Michelin/Dunlop would be no more. Second clue is the tech3 team signing Toseland and pairing him with Edwards in the same garage. Colin Edwrads, the Michelin guy through and through. Tthe guy who has a reputation as one of the best tyre testers in motoGP and the guy that Michelin trust implicitly. Tech3 signing Toseland took everyone by surprise but as it becomes apparent that Yamaha and Michelin are on a joint mission to save their respective ....., it's no surprise at all. Michelin Euros replace the Dunlop cash at tech3 and Yamaha have fourfactory M1's all gathering data to help Rossi de-throne Stoner in what could be Rossi's last year at Yamaha. Another Michelin flop season will have teams shouting for a Bridgestone control tyre so next year's a big one for Michelin. I really don't know about HRC, last I heard they hadn't signed with Michelin or Bridgestone......anybody?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(skidmark @ Aug 23 2007, 09:08 AM) [snapback]86540[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
The factory Yamahas will be on Michelins next year, 100% positive. [snip] Yamaha and Michelin are on a joint mission to save their respective ....., it's no surprise at all. Michelin Euros replace the Dunlop cash at tech3 and Yamaha have fourfactory M1's all gathering data to help Rossi de-throne Stoner in what could be Rossi's last year at Yamaha.

Yep, yep and yep. Michelin will be back next year with a more competitive approach - they simply have not got their heads around the new rules, changes in tarmac and different approach required: i.e. no more Friday night fly-ins.
Yamaha and Honda won't move either. They have too much invested in the relationship with Michelin, although there may be some negotiation to happen before the re-sign. Edwards staying with Tech 3 means Michelins. It can't mean anything else.
It's in Yamaha, Honda and Michelin's interests to take it to Ducati/Bridgestone next year and they will do so. They have to. Just don't expect miracles this season.

In the past Michelins have dominated, now they are having few troubles so Honda-Yamaha want to change to Bridgestone. I cant see that happening but unfortunately I can see MotoGP going towards a control-tyre rule. I think Michelin will get their .... sorted and come back strong in 08.

to answer the question

yes they can switch
but will they?