The new R1

I have just read an article in moto tech magazine (does anyone else read that?) about the new R1 and its cross plane crank which i found very interesting. Firstly it explained the engine in some detail and pointed out that the firing order is actually identical to the road orientated Honda VFR's, so it is effectively just mimicing a standard V4 layout. But more interesting than that was how the article concluded that the increase in rideability from the more liner torque is actually not particularly significant, especially not for road use. Apparently the main justification for this engine configuration is marketting, which is fairly obvious, but also to allow the race team to use the electronic software straight from their motogp bike, a luxury none of the other superbike teams have. I think thats clever stuff, and Anyone on a factory Yamaha superbike this year is in a good position.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 23 2009, 07:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have just read an article in moto tech magazine (does anyone else read that?) about the new R1 and its cross plane crank which i found very interesting. Firstly it explained the engine in some detail and pointed out that the firing order is actually identical to the road orientated Honda VFR's, so it is effectively just mimicing a standard V4 layout. But more interesting than that was how the article concluded that the increase in rideability from the more liner torque is actually not particularly significant, especially not for road use. Apparently the main justification for this engine configuration is marketting, which is fairly obvious, but also to allow the race team to use the electronic software straight from their motogp bike, a luxury none of the other superbike teams have. I think thats clever stuff, and Anyone on a factory Yamaha superbike this year is in a good position.

During the WSB round at Philips Island announcers repeatedly said that the new firing order
was responsible for the Yamaha's uncanny capacity to make tires, regardless of compound,
last easily to the end of the race. Could be mistaken, but I believe Spies said the same thing
in one interview.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Mar 23 2009, 09:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>During the WSB round at Philips Island announcers repeatedly said that the new firing order
was responsible for the Yamaha's uncanny capacity to make tires, regardless of compound,
last easily to the end of the race. Could be mistaken, but I believe Spies said the same thing
in one interview.

What Tom said still rings true though, when Yam changed the firing order they were able to use MotoGP-quality electronics. I think the GP quality TC is probably a bigger factor.

i don't know that magazine tom, where'd you get it?
and the bit about the elctronics, i thought ducati have been using their gp electronics on their superbikes since the 999 days.

From what I have seen and read, this has got to be the most improved bike both on the road and track in years. It's almost unprecedented for a new production machine to make such an immediate impact in WSB from the off. It does help have in the mercurial talent of Spies at the helm, although, not to steal Ben's thunder in any way, (because as it currently stands he's the most successful WSB rookie in history), but this bike looks so much easier to ride than last years R1 availed to Haga and Corser.

Pundits are predicting already that this cross plane crank design is not only an inspired piece of engineering, but is likely to become standard in future incarnations of rival line four production sportsbikes.

I'm surprised that the moto tech article suggested that the increased rideability gained from the revised firing order is not that significant on the road - everything that I have read is to the contrary, that the new engine works in perfect harmony with the improved chassis, and that the increased tractability on and off the track leaves the opposition for dead. I guess this 'feel' instils confidence in the rider, who then goes faster, which is as much qualitative feedback, - something I've always maintained raw quantitiative road testing data cannot necessarily capture or reflect.

One things for sure, the 3-1 triple pulse firing order gives it an inimitable and unique rasping tone, the race version barks like a cross between a triple and a supercharged corvette. Can't wait to hear it at a race weekend when BSB gets underway.

I still love my untamed '99 beast - the raw in yer face original and the best!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Mar 24 2009, 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>From what I have seen and read, this has got to be the most improved bike both on the road and track in years. It's almost unprecedented for a new production machine to make such an immediate impact in WSB from the off. It does help have in the mercurial talent of Spies at the helm, although, not to steal Ben's thunder in any way, (because as it currently stands he's the most successful WSB rookie in history), but this bike looks so much easier to ride than last years R1 availed to Haga and Corser.

Pundits are predicting already that this cross plane crank design is not only an inspired piece of engineering, but is likely to become standard in future incarnations of rival line four production sportsbikes.

I'm surprised that the moto tech article suggested that the increased rideability gained from the revised firing order is not that significant on the road - everything that I have read is to the contrary, that the new engine works in perfect harmony with the improved chassis, and that the increased tractability on and off the track leaves the opposition for dead. I guess this 'feel' instils confidence in the rider, who then goes faster, which is as much qualitative feedback, - something I've always maintained raw quantitiative road testing data cannot necessarily capture or reflect.

One things for sure, the 3-1 triple pulse firing order gives it an inimitable and unique rasping tone, the race version barks like a cross between a triple and a supercharged corvette. Can't wait to hear it at a race weekend when BSB gets underway.

I still love my untamed '99 beast - the raw in yer face original and the best!

Imagine if Yamaha had clothed the R1 in decent bodywork.

If they bike weren't so hideous, I think it would be an instant icon in motorcycling like Honda's RC V-4s or Ducati's 9 series (except the 999). But they totally missed the mark. Mr. Yamaha needs to give Tamburini a call.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Mar 24 2009, 06:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Imagine if Yamaha had clothed the R1 in decent bodywork.

If they bike weren't so hideous, I think it would be an instant icon in motorcycling like Honda's RC V-4s or Ducati's 9 series (except the 999). But they totally missed the mark. Mr. Yamaha needs to give Tamburini a call.
No, I agree, it's nowhere near a classic in the looks department, (although Ben's race liveried Yam Italia bike is dressed to kill). The last decent looking R1 was the third incarnation imo - preferably in red black and white.

I quite like the look of the new R1, and I thought the previous generation was the best looking ever.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Mar 24 2009, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I still love my untamed '99 beast - the raw in yer face original and the best!
The R1 is a great pedigree of bike. I love my 2004 R1 and was interested in trading up to the 09 after 3-4 years with my 04, that was until it was released. I think the 09 is a bit ugly, no matter how great the tech spec is.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Mar 24 2009, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The last decent looking R1 was the third incarnation imo - preferably in red black and white.
Is that the model with the thin, curved rear light (the shape before the underseat exhaust 04 model)?

I think Yamaha's sports bikes have been mingers for a while. The r6 has always looked a bit funny at the front end and the R1 hasn't looked good since the exhausts went under the seat. There hasn't been any particularly good paintjobs on them either, road or race.

On the tech side of things, time will tell if this cross plane configuration is a revolution or just a clever bit of marketting on a brilliant bike. I'm not sold to either argument just yet.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Mar 24 2009, 02:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Imagine if Yamaha had clothed the R1 in decent bodywork.

If they bike weren't so hideous, I think it would be an instant icon in motorcycling like Honda's RC V-4s or Ducati's 9 series (except the 999). But they totally missed the mark. Mr. Yamaha needs to give Tamburini a call.



Spot on Lex! They have been too busy copying the Italians since the R1. That they have no identity of their own. Thats why we see cross plain crank, flyby wire throttle control, & vacuum frame casting. And lets not forget the two wheel driver motorcyle! Yamaha would also want you to believe they are the first with that......... They are NOT the first!!! All this in the name of marketing.



.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mjpartyboy @ Mar 25 2009, 03:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Is that the model with the thin, curved rear light (the shape before the underseat exhaust 04 model)?
You got it

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think Yamaha's sports bikes have been mingers for a while. The r6 has always looked a bit funny at the front end and the R1 hasn't looked good since the exhausts went under the seat. There hasn't been any particularly good paintjobs on them either, road or race.
Tom, what particular planet are you broadcasting from this week?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Mar 25 2009, 10:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Tom, what particular planet are you broadcasting from this week?

Earth as far as i can tell You do realize not everyone has to like the things you like?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 26 2009, 10:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Earth as far as i can tell You do realize not everyone has to like the things you like?
Yeah I do, which is why I try to avoid the demeaning air of condescension that always accompanies one of your posts. Forums are for expressing differing opinions, and you're right not everyone will agree...so I'm disagreeing with you. Consider what you said Tom regarding the R1, " There hasn't been any particularly good paintjobs on them either, road or race". That is an astonishingly broad and ignorant statement to make over a bike of an 11 year pedigree. So off the top of my head, from Dave Jefferies '01 V&M livery to Haga's Santander painjob only last year, and all points between, your saying there haven't been any particularly good race paintjobs. Meantime, on the road, off the top of my head and for the sake of argument, the black and gold limited edition R1 sp didn't do it for you? Both on and off the track, during its history, the R1 has come in an array of different guises, I can't believe that you didn't like any of these.

I'm sorry, I just think that's an incredibly ill considered and generalised statement to make.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Mar 26 2009, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah I do, which is why I try to avoid the demeaning air of condescension that always accompanies one of your posts. Forums are for expressing differing opinions, and you're right not everyone will agree...so I'm disagreeing with you. Consider what you said Tom regarding the R1, " There hasn't been any particularly good paintjobs on them either, road or race". That is an astonishingly broad and ignorant statement to make over a bike of an 11 year pedigree. So off the top of my head, from Dave Jefferies '01 V&M livery to Haga's Santander painjob only last year, and all points between, your saying there haven't been any particularly good race paintjobs. Meantime, on the road, off the top of my head and for the sake of argument, the black and gold limited edition R1 sp didn't do it for you? Both on and off the track, during its history, the R1 has come in an array of different guises, I can't believe that you didn't like any of these.

I'm sorry, I just think that's an incredibly ill considered and generalised statement to make.

All i was saying is that i haven't seen an R1 in road form or in any major racing series that i thought looked particularly good since the pipes went under the seat. Some of the colours aren't bad, but none have done enough to overcome the the shape of the bike which i'm not keen on. It's quite possible that somewhere some provateer or random race team has put together a colour scheme that makes the bike look relatively good, but i haven't seen it yet.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 26 2009, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>All i was saying is that i haven't seen an R1 in road form or in any major racing series that i thought looked particularly good since the pipes went under the seat. Some of the colours aren't bad, but none have done enough to overcome the the shape of the bike which i'm not keen on. It's quite possible that somewhere some provateer or random race team has put together a colour scheme that makes the bike look relatively good, but i haven't seen it yet.
Did you not like the Santander Yamaha's then?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Mar 26 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Did you not like the Santander Yamaha's then?

Not really no. It's one of the better ones mind, much better than this years.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Mar 26 2009, 08:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah I do, which is why I try to avoid the demeaning air of condescension that always accompanies one of your posts. Forums are for expressing differing opinions, and you're right not everyone will agree...so I'm disagreeing with you. Consider what you said Tom regarding the R1, " There hasn't been any particularly good paintjobs on them either, road or race". That is an astonishingly broad and ignorant statement to make over a bike of an 11 year pedigree. So off the top of my head, from Dave Jefferies '01 V&M livery to Haga's Santander painjob only last year, and all points between, your saying there haven't been any particularly good race paintjobs. Meantime, on the road, off the top of my head and for the sake of argument, the black and gold limited edition R1 sp didn't do it for you? Both on and off the track, during its history, the R1 has come in an array of different guises, I can't believe that you didn't like any of these.

I'm sorry, I just think that's an incredibly ill considered and generalised statement to make.
Dude,just because his OPINION differs from yours does not make anything ignorant. If he doesnt like it,he doesnt like it. Im sure out there somewhere,there is a guy who doesnt think Halle Berry is a pretty women.Thats his opinion,you might tthink its weird but it isnt to him. Remember the old saying about opinions and .........

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Mar 26 2009, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dude,just because his OPINION differs from yours does not make anything ignorant. If he doesnt like it,he doesnt like it. Im sure out there somewhere,there is a guy who doesnt think Halle Berry is a pretty women.Thats his opinion,you might tthink its weird but it isnt to him. Remember the old saying about opinions and .........
You misunderstand me Povol. In this instance, I'm just curious as to what he thought about the Santander Yam because it's regarded as one of the better dressed r1's, that's all. Read my earlier post my friend. I agree, this is a forum, people should be free to express their opinions without fear of being flamed. There are however, some members on here who get back what they put out 'with a whole wad of 'interest' slapped on top- largely because they've earned it. Some of them threaten to sue, some go crying to the mods - whatever - remember the old adage about opinions from ........? Tom, meanwhile seems remarkably thick skinned and keeps coming back for more. That's not my concern, but I can see why he gets flame grilled on average a thrice weekly basis.

Regarding your Halle Berry analogy, that is one individual lady. To parallel Tom's comment about every Yamaha paint job race and road, would be a bit like me saying there's never been an attractive Bond girl period, in the 46 year history of James Bond films, as opposed to citing one particular actress, and would obviously be a questionable statement. Remember, we're not referring here to the looks of the bike per se, rather the liveries over the years. I actually agree with his view on the R1 underseat exhaust...don't like it at all, as I agreed with Lex's assertion over the current ugly body work. Regarding the intrinsic silhouette/aesthetics of any given individual motorcycle - it's entirely subjective and down to individual taste whether you like each model - each to his own. To assert on the other hand, that during an entire history of one motorcycle there's never been a particularly good paint job road or race, is absurd and frankly ridiculous.

Sorry but to me, it's not a case of simply disagreeing with what he said - he's entitled to his opinion - I just think it's an incredibly sweeping dismissive statement and I'm more about trying to understand what he meant.

OK hows this, I'll do one....'since the inception of the Gixer thou, there hasn't been any particularly good paint jobs road or race'. Now go and post that on any motorcycle based forum you choose, or wait a few months and sling it on here and see the response you get. Sure, some would say that's your view, albeit a peculiar one - but you are entitled to it. Most however would question what possessed you to make such a broad generality.