The Future of WSBK

From Motociclismo:

"Zerbi (FIM president) scheduled a meeting to discuss Ducati's proposal to increase the displacement of the twinpots up to 1200cc.

Attendants are (among others) Takanao Fubuchi (MSMA), Paolo Flamini (CEO of FGSport), Giulio Bardi (Superbike top teams association), Robert Rasor (AMA) Stuart Higgs (BSB) ...

Currently there seems to be an agreement between teams and manufacturers to admit Ducati's proposal as long as the twinpots lose their current advantages (non-stock crankshaft, E.F.I. and unlimited admission trumpets)

Ducati is already working on the new engine which will displace between 1150cc and 1200cc. The bike will be unveiled in summer of 2007 so it will be in time to have the racing SBK ready for 2008.

Although only Ducati is using a V2 other manufacturers are planning to join this new format, KTM is planning on a 1150cc, Moto Morini already has a 1200cc and theres rumours that H-D through Buell could be developing a 1200cc SBK.

Another hot topic is the limits on Traction Control, Honda, Yamaha and private teams are complaining that Ducati and Suzuki are using TC systems that cost more than the rest of the bike. But it seems a lot of talking will be needed to reach an agreement about TC."

I say make Ducati and the rest of the V twin manufacturers play by the rules everyone set out with after 2002. Ducati already have a big 1000cc V4 in the Desmosedici RR, why not use a simialr powerplant in a less expensive road going model. Or at least use the Desmosedici RR for racing and develop cheaper versions of the bike so they can turn a profit off the victories. The V twin manufactueres complained until they could have 1000cc versus 750cc inline fours, then the inline four manufacturers complained to have a level 1000cc limit, now the V twin manufacturers are complaining again for 1200cc V twins to be legal. Within five years inline four manufacturers will complain for more capacity. Adjusting the rules to suit one manufacturer or engine configuration is not the solution, forcing each manufacturer to comply with the rules set out is. Besides, 1200 is an ugly number for a motorcycle. And traction control, legalize it in Superbike. It's supposed to be the 'If you got it, bring it' class so I say legalize it but ban it in all support classes.

The Desmosedici can't be used for SBK, it has a bore/stroke ratio over 1.5 so according to the rules it would have to be rev-limited to 14000 rpm.

I think the change is not really significant, V2 have always had advantages. Now it's a bit like going back to the 1000cc/750cc era.

What don't you know, Teo? I still don't like the 1200 number.

I`m with Ooost. H-D make 1200s. BMW make 1200s. Big bikes are 1200s, not race bikes. Keep them at 1000cc, I say. If Ducati can develop a V4 for GP racing (Which, as has been pointed out cant be used effectively in SBK) and develop a new engine (And probably new bike) for 1200cc SBK racing, why can`t they do both and build a new 1000cc V4? They could use the RR`s donk (I call it that because I can`t spell Despotmocraticjuggalug) as a template to save preciuos funds, but change it to make a suitable sportsbike that`s capable of SBK racing. It`s not impossible. The Kawasaki ZX12R motor is basically an evolution of the first water-cooled four they used in the GPz900 over 20 years ago, and Honda`s docile VFR 800 and infamous RC211V`s engines are diffrent evolutions of the same template.

this is ........! teo's right, they'er just going back to the future with this. did'nt flamini learn anything from that!......... ...... .....'s

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ooost @ Jun 7 2006, 08:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What don't you know, Teo? I still don't like the 1200 number.

I didn't know that till 2 days ago when I read it in Motociclismo.

I'm surprised the MSMA agrees, they must think that they are better off with a 20% displacement disadvantage than a 33% like in the 750cc era. But I doubt the extra power they can get will be decisive because with so much power available in a 1200cc the superior traction of the V2 should be the decisive factor.

The other explanation is that deep down in the HRC headquarters a 1200cc VTR SP-3 is secretly being developed ...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (teomolca @ Jun 8 2006, 10:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm surprised the MSMA agrees, they must think that they are better off with a 20% displacement disadvantage than a 33% like in the 750cc era. But I doubt the extra power they can get will be decisive because with so much power available in a 1200cc the superior traction of the V2 should be the decisive factor.

The other explanation is that deep down in the HRC headquarters a 1200cc VTR SP-3 is secretly being developed ...
I'm laughing at the SP-3 remark but as I laugh I'm thinking to myself it's not as outlandish as it seems. I'm still against it, I know the V twin is Ducati but we can't just keep changing rules like this. We haven't had stability in any road racing in the past five years. I think it turns fans off. It's hard enough keeping track of rider moves to a casual fan without trying to figure out what kind of bikes are on track and in what class.

I just have to say sorry to Ducati, they had their advantage and now things are more level. If they don't like it, they need to follow the rules just like everyone else. A 1000cc V4 with "twin pulse" firing order sounds mighty good to me.

I agree. Theyre just as stupid as Dorna. As a matter of fact, even though I`m a 4 stroke guy, I`d like to see the GP go back to the 500s for it`s own health. And as for SBK, if they keep this up, soon they`ll have bigger engines than drag rails. I`ts gotta stop somewhere. I`m a Ducati SBK fan but for fks sake can`t they play by the rules? It`s production racing, Not prototypes! Yamahas, Ducatis, Hondas and Suzukis all get podiums and race wins in SBK. It`s not MotoGP, which is why I love it so much. Anyone can beat Honda in SBK. They just gotta put their mind to it! (But of course they don`t, thanks for nothing PSG-1 )

Hey now, Fonsi Nieto, The Stalker and Laconi are all capable of pulling off a miracle on snagging a podium somewhere. But yes, as a fellow Ducatisti I have to say there needs to be a limit in SBK racing and 1000cc is it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ooost @ Jun 9 2006, 08:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>as a fellow Ducatisti
Ooost i think u need to own a ducati to be considered a ducatisti. could be wrong bout that but i don't think i am.

ok, then, we`ll call ourselves Ducatistiwannabes, and give as much support as any "Ducati rider" to Loris, Sete, Troy and even Lanzi when he merits it.

Right on richo. Someday I'll be a true Ducatisti... hopefully.

me too bud.....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Jun 9 2006, 01:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I`d like to see the GP go back to the 500s for it`s own health.
richo they got away from 500's for their own health.

Yeah, but Things are going so crap with this 800cc rule. so much money. The grid is miniscule compared to a 500 grid. Oh well, let them have their tech war and destroy close racing and wipe all but the richest factory teams off the grid. At least every other weekend there`ll be the good old Superbikes...... providing that dosen`t go up the .... as well.

All this rule changing just proves what a 2nd rate series world touring bikes is. Still, at least foggy isn't racing any more.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rgvneil @ Jun 14 2006, 07:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>All this rule changing just proves what a 2nd rate series world touring bikes is. Still, at least foggy isn't racing any more.
good stuff!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rgvneil @ Jun 14 2006, 11:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>All this rule changing just proves what a 2nd rate series world touring bikes is. Still, at least foggy isn't racing any more.

"All this rule changing"? I think you`ll find Rossi and co. will be dealing with a few minor rule changes next year too

Wait for the 800s, and watch yer precious motoGP turn into a 2 wheeled version of Formula 1. We'll be watching SBK. You die hard GP fans wont know what your missing.

And by the way, the only thing this rule changing is proving is how much the powers that be in SBK like kissing big, red Ducati ....

Motogp rules change next year, that's true.
The last rule change was in '02 (I think).
When were the rules changed before that? 30 years ago?
Not like wonderful wsb where the rules appear to change every few years.
Obviously the organisers are like the americans, when someone gets too close to their home efforts they change the rules. Way to earn respect!!