THE CASE FOR MARQUEZ

Arrabbiata1 said:

Sorry mate, but Aaron Slight could be a complete arse when he wanted to be.

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Arse may be gentle given some of the stories I have heard regarding him (I know many a person who would have liked a few minutes with him).



But on the good side, the kiwis also gave us Simon Crafar and I cannot say a bad word about him (have met a few times) and nor have I heard anything negative

New Zealand also gave us Kim Newcombe.
Legend.

Bruce Anstey too

MdubSTYLIE said:

No matter what happened before Rossi ran Marquez wide it was all clean and fine. Rough but fine. Name a time in either one of their careers with they didn't ride that way? And a nice deep block pass is fine too. But Rossi was throwing hand gestures and waging his foot at him obviously in rage. Then he looked over multiple times until he ran Marc nearly off track. Only nearly because at some point Marc had to chose to turn in, and when he did Rossi pushed off and Marc fell. Blaming Marc in the slightest means you know nothing about motorcycle racing.

How much longer do you noobies plan on sticking around? Just wondering.

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Great read this Fella's, can't add much more but my thoughts entirely.
Was great hard racing up until the "Incident"
In my eyes it's simple, even if Marquez had the pace which i don't believe he did to catch Jorge or Dani ut's damn near impossible to prove he was trying to slow the pace of rossi down Geez it didn't look like that to me ! MAn they were going at it hammer and tongs best racing iv'e witnessed in a long time.
People surely cannot ignore the fact that Rossi slowed down deliberately looking at Marquez what 2-3 times before gauging where exactly he had to be on track to try and mess Marquez's flow and line up.
I would have done exactly the same thing in that situation and i am sure many other pople would have reacted the same.
If your gonna go out your way to wind someone up then expect some sort of retaliation.
Rossi should have been disqualified simple. Had it have been any other rider you can bet that would have been the decision, but because it's Vale he got off lightly.
Such a shame as we were witnessing one of the best races to date !
Rossi has got bigger than the sport itself and when he leaves and takes a away some of the fanboys and girls MotoGP could well be in trouble.

i don't have any particular allegience to any rider and have enjoyed watching Vale over the years. Must admit after reading lorenzo's book iv'e warmed to him over the years but certainly see Rossi in a different light now.
He can only blame himself for this one.

Good read that tho' and well said MdubSTYLIE SPOT ON !

Hey Jum,
kinda weird to see you defending the 93 after everything you've had to say over the last few years.
I'm with you tho, not sure how people are rationally putting the blame on Marc.
Yeah he raced Rossi hard, very hard, harder than he would have done without the grenade on Thursday.
So MM touched VR in combat first, probably, we've seen it before lets face it MM races hard, harder than most but IMO hard but fair (most of the time), nearly every race has a bump or a nudge one way or another, not very often the get knocked or made to fall for it tho.

Sadly no evidence of what happened can be shown unless RD decide to show telemetry publicly (which wont happen) even then it would be subjective as they were mid battle and things change lap by lap....

557953 said:

Hey Jum,
kinda weird to see you defending the 93 after everything you've had to say over the last few years.

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Because like a lot of us here, Jum can be reasoned with his judgements. Marc has been a .... numerous times in the past, BUT he was not to blame for this incident.

trouty65 said:

Was great hard racing up until the "Incident"
In my eyes it's simple, even if Marquez had the pace which i don't believe he did to catch Jorge or Dani ut's damn near impossible to prove he was trying to slow the pace of rossi down Geez it didn't look like that to me ! MAn they were going at it hammer and tongs best racing iv'e witnessed in a long time. !

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Good post!

This was for me by far the most disappointing aspect of the whole sordid affair.

On the coverage here in Australia they cut to an ad break just before the crash....I had been glued to the TV ecstatic at the quality or racing being dished up and I actually recalling thinking to myself at the time "Well I don't like Rossi - but man I am glad he is still out there producing this kind of racing".

When they returned to the coverage of the race the commentator announced

"Controversy during the break blah blah blah"

Witnessing what had happened I was in a state of disbelief....thinking to myself what had just occurred? Am I dreaming?

What an absolute letdown! Reality struck home and my elation had turned to anger.

After that I spent the rest of the race thinking when are they gonna black flag Rossi?

Again reality kicked me in the head....This is Valentino Rossi and exceptions to the rules will be made.

What a farce.

#22 said:

Because like a lot of us here, Jum can be reasoned with his judgements. Marc has been a .... numerous times in the past, BUT he was not to blame for this incident.

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I have mostly thought whilst not really a fan that Valentino was a great rider and basically OK himself but with some crazy/objectionable fans.

It was Birdman who first pointed out to me that Valentino in his opinion had manipulated that fan base and used it as a weapon against rivals; he was coming from the perspective of having been a Biaggi fan.

That is the worst element of all this for me, in that he seems with malice aforethought to have deliberately incited that element among his fan base against Marquez in the Thursday press conference with claims which remain ludicrous in respect of the PI race given MM actually won that race.

Jumkie said:

So far Rossi fans have rationalized that Rossi's actions were only reaction to Marquez' " provocation" and so he deserved it. Again, this has been based on zero evidence, all stemming first from Rossi himself, and second, imagined transgressions while battling for positions. But here is why this rationale is flawed, Its the classic notion that a girl provoked a .... for wearing a short skirt. Its victim shaming.

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What concerns me more, is that Rossi's fans not only use this as an excuse, but consider it a justification for Rossi's actions, allowing him to be judge jury and excecutioner ABOVE Race Direction...this is called taking the law into one's hands and is a precedent that CANNOT be allowed.

So, a guy cuts me up on the motorway. Am I justified ramming him off the road?

michaelm said:

That is the worst element of all this for me, in that he seems with malice aforethought to have deliberately incited that element among his fan base against Marquez in the Thursday press conference with claims which remain ludicrous in respect of the PI race given MM actually won that race.

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That was his EXACT intention, to get the seeds into his fanbase' head.

Why, after Aragon did he go to Pedrosa privately? Why after Phillip Island did he go to Iannone privately and NOT Marquez?

trouty65 said:

...some of the fanboys and girls MotoGP could well be in trouble.

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Great post except this part... I want all the girls to stay. They're so lovely. Even the chicks with dicks.

Well MM was BEHIND Rossi when the accident happened, correct?

When did the rules of the road change that the rider ahead is to blame????

Really?? Going into turn 14, Marquez was ahead. Rossi was the overtiking rider, not Marquez.

fairandsquare said:

Well MM was BEHIND Rossi when the accident happened, correct?

When did the rules of the road change that the rider ahead is to blame????

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How about HERE?

https://youtu.be/5MPIIrguvwg?t=13

Mr Squiggle said:

Good post!

This was for me by far the most disappointing aspect of the whole sordid affair.

On the coverage here in Australia they cut to an ad break just before the crash....I had been glued to the TV ecstatic at the quality or racing being dished up and I actually recalling thinking to myself at the time "Well I don't like Rossi - but man I am glad he is still out there producing this kind of racing".

When they returned to the coverage of the race the commentator announced

"Controversy during the break blah blah blah"

Witnessing what had happened I was in a state of disbelief....thinking to myself what had just occurred? Am I dreaming?

What an absolute letdown! Reality struck home and my elation had turned to anger.

After that I spent the rest of the race thinking when are they gonna black flag Rossi?

Again reality kicked me in the head....This is Valentino Rossi and exceptions to the rules will be made.

What a farce.

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Excellent point about being shocked trying to make sense of what happened at the moment of the incident. Shock!

I was in disbelief too, wait wait, what just happened there? Can you imagine Marquez mind? Nobody had done this in all my memory at the moment, not this obviously deliberate! So it was naturally confusing.

Now of course Marquez is being blamed for turning in trying to calculate getting back to the racing at a split second that he was trying to make sense of Rossi's move, perhaps thinking wait, was this deliberate, did he have a mechanical, what's going on here? Wait I'm running out of space here, what's Rossi doing?

Of course being in a state of shock, surprise while trying to manage the entire incident is the light in which his accusers are now splitting hairs to place blame on him for the contact. Its mind-boggling.


And I too waited for the black flag. I waited for it completely sure that even with the favoritism this just forced Race Direction's hand, it was way too obvious, I've watch racing for decades, and even "racing incidents " have been black flagged, this was certainly not even debatable...so I thought. When the black flag didn't arrive, shock number two. Then of course disbelief and anger.

Jumkie said:

Excellent point about being shocked trying to make sense of what happened at the moment of the incident. Shock!

I was in disbelief too, wait wait, what just happened there? Can you imagine Marquez mind? Nobody had done this in all my memory at the moment, not this obviously deliberate! So it was naturally confusing. .

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Yeah for me it was like one of those Challenger disaster / 911 type moments of confusion...without the human tragedy.

It was hard to process - I reckon Marquez, like you and I, was thinking something along the lines of "What the .... just happened?"

I imagine he had a similar reaction during the press conference on Thursday too.

Jumkie said:

Now of course Marquez is being blamed for turning in trying to calculate getting back to the racing at a split second that he was trying to make sense of Rossi's move, perhaps thinking wait, was this deliberate, did he have a mechanical, what's going on here? Wait I'm running out of space here, what's Rossi doing?

Of course being in a state of shock, surprise while trying to manage the entire incident is the light in which his accusers are now splitting hairs to place blame on him for the contact. Its mind-boggling.


And I too waited for the black flag. I waited for it completely sure that even with the favoritism this just forced Race Direction's hand, it was way too obvious, I've watch racing for decades, and even "racing incidents " have been black flagged, this was certainly not even debatable...so I thought. When the black flag didn't arrive, shock number two. Then of course disbelief and anger.

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The other overwhelming reaction I had was outrage at the blatant and stupefying hypocrisy of this whole scenario....

Is this the same Valentino Rossi that is constantly lauded by his fans as loving nothing more than sparring on track with his bitter rivals...taking the fight to them and ultimately the act of good triumphing against evil as we are constantly told...

No this was a weak act born of a fragile mind and the no show at the post race press conference was the icing on the cake for me....weak as piss.

The legend took a battering this past weekend....all of his own doing.

Agree. I had mentioned I was arriving at a party watching on my phone. It was a Halloween party. My wife went in without me as I stayed in the car watching, glued and paralyzed to what was happening.

When I finally walked in I was a zombie.

Jumkie said:

Agree. I had mentioned I was arriving at a party watching on my phone. It was a Halloween party. My wife went in without me as I stayed in the car watching, glued and paralyzed to what was happening.

When I finally walked in I was a zombie.

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What was your wife dressed as?

#22 said:

What was your wife dressed as?

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Oh she was dressed in horror. Apparently, married women who arrived with their husbands, don't like being alone at a party for 30 minutes.