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The business of sport

Joined Feb 2010
2K Posts | 456+
Netherlands
Fantastic podcast from the BBC about the business side of sport, from three sports promoters. Extremely relevant to motorcycle racing and the discussions that have gone on here. Interesting opinions, and some very ugly truths"



[media]http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/bottomline/bottomline_20121025-2100b.mp3[/media]
 
Okay, I'll dive right in here. I see the same thing happening with motogp (from what I've read on here at least) as it did with F1, money and the business of it all gets in the way of the actual sport and the racing the fans tune in for. In fact the racing becomes almost a secondary thing which is really wrong. It's a sport people, not a business and the sooner they remember that and get back to the 'show' rather than profits and so on the better.



I know, you have to have money involved and you need to make a profit in anything for it to work, but if it's a sport, surely the fans and their enjoyment matter, if they don't put bums on seats and buy the, often over priced merchandise, or even just tune in to watch, what's the point?
 
Okay, I'll dive right in here. I see the same thing happening with motogp (from what I've read on here at least) as it did with F1, money and the business of it all gets in the way of the actual sport and the racing the fans tune in for. In fact the racing becomes almost a secondary thing which is really wrong. It's a sport people, not a business and the sooner they remember that and get back to the 'show' rather than profits and so on the better.



I know, you have to have money involved and you need to make a profit in anything for it to work, but if it's a sport, surely the fans and their enjoyment matter, if they don't put bums on seats and buy the, often over priced merchandise, or even just tune in to watch, what's the point?



The counter argument to that is, if there's no money, where's the sport? If there's no money, there's no one who can afford to develop racing bikes. If there's no money, there's no one who can afford to fly themselves and their teams across the world to go racing.



It's chicken & egg. Without money, there is no racing.
 
Without money, there is no racing.

i guess it boils down to what level of machinery is needed to entertain the casual fan.having said that, i don't need the current prototypes to be entertained significantly more than what could be achieved by putting everybody on wsbk spec r1s (minus the rider aides)

i'm fairly confident motogp could create enough revenue by tv rights,attendence etc. to supply fast,one-make bikes for everybody for free.
 
niche market sport

all ready goes somewhat worldwide maybe try and export it to Big bike buying country's Asia/Indonesia are probably the only places left

the other thing all though its worldwide its mostly Europe based.



Many established sports are all ready above it in the pecking order



maybe to cut costs it will become Euro based ??



the promoters have a dilemma on there hands

especially with the manufacturers mainly Japanese companys



Euro bike company's arn't comping in to spread the load



many sports taken something good for the fan/viewer and improved it / this sport gone the other way



what we had in the Euro dominated days could it fully return

an amazing group





FBOOK Motorcycle Racing 1960-1990



526029_10152044212104625_1575473477_n.jpg
 
Okay, I'll dive right in here. I see the same thing happening with motogp (from what I've read on here at least) as it did with F1, money and the business of it all gets in the way of the actual sport and the racing the fans tune in for. In fact the racing becomes almost a secondary thing which is really wrong. It's a sport people, not a business and the sooner they remember that and get back to the 'show' rather than profits and so on the better.



I know, you have to have money involved and you need to make a profit in anything for it to work, but if it's a sport, surely the fans and their enjoyment matter, if they don't put bums on seats and buy the, often over priced merchandise, or even just tune in to watch, what's the point?



The counter argument is that properly devised sports are always entertaining and always able to generate large sums of money. Since Roman times, sports have filled the Colosseum.



When sports are confined to the individual, the sporting model is very simple. An individual competes and pushes the envelope of human performance until genetics dictate otherwise. Individual sports; therefore, have a natural ebb and flow. However, the value of sports seems to increase when individuals also co-operate in a competitive environment. Team sports were born. Teams become organizations, and since properly devised sports are naturally profitable, these organizations eventually become corporations, more specifically competitive entities that outlive the individual. Sporting organizations, like manufacturers or sports clubs, no longer follow the ebb and flow of individual competition. An advantage exploited in the present pays dividends in perpetuity, which fundamentally alters the economic system surrounding sports. Instinctive, unreasonable competitiveness is at odds with organizational competition.



So what we have are a bunch of very poorly designed sports and sporting systems. The promoters point out that the competitors are generally indifferent to the systemic issues within the sport and intransigent regarding systemic changes, thus, the promoters build their empires with marketing gimmicks, like cult of personality or media format changes.



In the end, the salient observation is made by Barry the snooker/darts promoter--'I don't want competition'. The great competitors do not actually relish competition. Great competitors relish victory. The trouble is that the strengthening effects of competition are very widespread. Both society and the individual are better off in competitive environments, but the benefits are often quite subtle and nuanced. Victory has a very narrow micro benefits, but the benefits are easily understood by everyone. If value and profit are driven by something so narrowly defined as victory, the contest and the related economic system will both collapse.



Competition is the focus of sport and the real value-driven activity. If I compete and lose, I'm better off than if I sit on my ... (assuming self-preservation). If I compete and win, I'm better off than if I sit on my .... Sport will thrive as long as it is based on competition. Victory-based endeavors have no sustainable benefits. If I compete and lose, I'm worse off. If I compete and win, I'm better off. It is up to the competitors and marketers to make sure that unreason doesn't influence decision-making. Unfortunately, the forbidden fruit of victory-based competition is irresistible. Short term gains are potent b/c losing is no longer a positive outcome. Long-term problems are inescapable. Eventually, the competitors abandon the sport, and victory is impossible or victory has no value.



Examine MotoGP's changes through this lens. Dorna are basically trying to equalize the bikes and technology so the rider makes the difference. If the formula is 80/20, then it follows the ebb and flow of the individual sports model and competition will always be present. This is a severe limitation of MotoGP's theoretical growth prospects, but you can see how much safer it is than fighting the MSMA who are evangelists for the victory-specific model of sports. Victory-driven motorcycle sport has brought the Japanese very potent short-term gains, but the revenues for racing and the repli-racer market are now generated by selling cruisers, nakeds, and scooters on loose credit. The implosion has begun.
 
I agree you need money in sport, you can't function without it, but when the money side takes over from the actual sporting event then you have a problem. F1 suffers in the same way, Bernie and his money making has ruined it in a lot of ways, sounds like the same thing is happening here too sadly.



Of course you need money, you just need the right balance between the business side and the sporting event, getting that balance exactly right seems to be pretty much impossible so far though sadly.
 
Is that pic yours Pige?



Hi Goat

no its on a FBOOK page Motorcycle Racing 1960-1990 well worth a look/like/follow



https://www.facebook...1990?ref=stream



I Shared the pic because its a great bit of history

and 5 in the pic are easy to name the 6th

not so easy but i knew who it was

as a kid i knocked about with his family i knew the guy

well in the Club Racing / TT / Manx Paddock 1960's - 1970's
 
sorry to Hi-jack the thread Pic info you require



ok ppl Right to Left you'll know the names



Barry Sheene,

Kenny Roberts,

Mike (the bike) Hailwood,

Mal Carter Alan Carters Dad Pharoh Racing the Haslams etc

Mick Grant

BBC's Steve Stavros Parrrish



the one in the pic harder to name Mal Carter

i spent many yrs as a kid in around the Carter Family / Haslams

used to follow a racer who was good friends with them

and the likes of Alan Duffus. Rog Marshall. Dek Chatterton, Moon eyes Cooper etc etc



^^ thats a bit of info on how i knew these people



Im getting old stuck in my ways about how racing used to be motogp dont cut it for me



my pics below

The Racer in the pic some history on the IOMTT Site about his results

http://www.iomtt.com...LL&ride_id=6610







me as a kid on the far right Cadwell Park around 1971



smtu0y.jpg




IOMTT Start/Finish 1972

2wppm3r.jpg




BACK ON TOPIC NOW

The business of sport = motogp has got a lot to do

and a reason i posted the original pic



an equivalent motogp pic today would be like trying to get lets say

Doohan.Stoner.Rossi. P Bird, Pedrosa, Lorenzo

to a working mens club for a Q&A Session ???



wont ever happen to much Corporate / sponsor stuff going on





Cheers
 
Hi Goat

no its on a FBOOK page Motorcycle Racing 1960-1990 well worth a look/like/follow



https://www.facebook...1990?ref=stream



I Shared the pic because its a great bit of history

and 5 in the pic are easy to name the 6th

not so easy but i knew who it was

as a kid i knocked about with his family i knew the guy

well in the Club Racing / TT / Manx Paddock 1960's - 1970's
Ah well, I wish it was mine, thanks for sharing.
 
We have to accept that there are compromises and nothing can afford to be 'pure' in a real world: no pure prototypes, no pure business, no pure entertainment, no pure sport. Let's get rid of all these 'pure' opposites and a good sensible compromise may become possible.
 
When Dan Wheldon couldnt get a ride in Indycar in 2011, a former champion who then won his only (up to that time) race of the season which happened to be the Indy 500, arguably the worlds most famous motor race but Danica Patrick hasn't got enough space on her car for all the people who want to sponser her then it proves that motorsport now is just a rich playboys ........ marketing arena where in that case having a minge is more important than having talent.



If you have the skill, it doesnt mean you'll get in

If you have the cash it does mean you will get in.



Racing teams and series need to stop spending money they don't have in terms of 'Development' and there for get the best pilots instead of the richest. Humans have survived perfectly well enough in the times before exotic materials, and all the safety BS we have now
 
If there is a God he is a fool for creating a weapon with the potential for destruction like the ...... and then giving it to a woman,