Takahashi set for MotoGP move

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Sep 25 2008, 06:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>grid filler

Don't Hate.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Sep 25 2008, 02:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Don't Hate.

don't kiss ...

Well Taka took over Dovi's bike in 250's, right? If so Dovi took second on that bike and was a very consistent podium taker. Taka hasn't even managed to come close. On the other hand I expect Dovi to be a regular on the podium in MOTOGP so I don't know if the two can be prepared.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Sep 25 2008, 07:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>don't kiss ...
He is the new token Japanese. GOOD BYE NAKANO!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yago @ Sep 25 2008, 02:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Have you watch 250 races were Takahashi was giving a hard time to the Aprilia riders with an underdevelopped Honda?

Well, to me it shows some merit.

Right now I don't see why De Angelis, Capirossi, Elias and others would have more rights to be in MotoGP than a guy like Takhashi.

Now if you ask me if Spies deserves it more than the Japanese I would say yes obviously
Elias has as many podiums in the premier class as Takahashi has in the 250s all year and has half as many wins in the premier class as Takahashi has in 250s. Neither one of them has won a race since 2006. Neither won last season, but Elias pulled off a couple of podiums and Takahashi didn't. Capirex took a win amongst 4 podiums last season and was third in the world 2 years ago. Once again, way in excess of what Takahashi accomplished against lesser competition. Deangelis is only one year in. Over the last 2 years prior to 2008 the only ones ahead of him in the 250 standings were riders that are also now in GPs (and not being called into question by you). Simultaneously Takahashi was way down in the standings. Of course there's the development angle to consider, but he's still not bringing the greatest qualifications.

All right, all right, my "well deserved" was a bit exagerated

I have to agree with Jumkie and the others, this one has "token" written all over it. Takahashi is simply "the next best Japanese rider available for MotoGP". Clearly they are filling in a market need with a rider carrying a certain passport. It's been said before, MotoGP will always have at least 1 Japanese rider. Just as Jumkie implies, why is it always touted that MotoGP is the "best of the best" when there clearly is grid filler.

Last year we got the top 3 guys from the 250 class, Lorenzo, Dovi, DeAngelis; so far two of them have done very well. This years current top 3 in 250's are Simoncelli, Bautista and Kallio, up to this point we are fairly certain Simoncelli and Bautista are staying in 250s for '09. Kallio is heavily rumored to be moving to Alice. Takahashi is sitting in 7th, granted he is doing a good job with the supposed "underpowered" Honda, but honestly I don't put a lot of weight into that claim as Dovi finished 2nd in the championship the two years before with the Honda. So technically he should be able to at the least be 2nd on the "underpowered" Honda. On merit Takahashi is not deserving of a MotoGP ride, nor was Guintoli for that matter (a different topic in itself).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Sep 25 2008, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well Taka took over Dovi's bike in 250's, right? If so Dovi took second on that bike and was a very consistent podium taker. Taka hasn't even managed to come close. On the other hand I expect Dovi to be a regular on the podium in MOTOGP so I don't know if the two can be prepared.

Yes, but the bike is getting really old as the Aprilias and KTM's have progressed and the Honda hasn't.

I think he's a pretty good rider, obviously being Japanese and loyal to Honda is a big factor. I think he could do decently although I doubt he's a champion material...

Personnally, I would understand more the annoyance of some here about Canepa if he makes it to the Alice team.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wander @ Sep 25 2008, 03:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes, but the bike is getting really old as the Aprilias and KTM's have progressed and the Honda hasn't.

I think he's a pretty good rider, obviously being Japanese and loyal to Honda is a big factor. I think he could do decently although I doubt he's a champion material...
How much have the bikes really progressed this year, with the 250s on the cusp of retirement?

KIYONARI would have been a better choice..he's actually WON races

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yago @ Sep 25 2008, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>All right, all right, my "well deserved" was a bit exagerated
Wow, I think you are the first person to retract what was later to be shown a bit excessive. I like you (so far).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Sep 25 2008, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>KIYONARI would have been a better choice..he's actually WON races
I totally agree. He at least has a couple of championships in BSB. He has also managed to win races in WSBK against the fearless Bayliss.

While i don't want to dispute Taka being a token rider, but what's the big fuzz, there has been a token rider form Japan for at least two decades, about time to get used to it?

That said theres plenty rubish here.
Comparing GP250 with suport series in national championships, wtf is that?
"Dovi did well on that bike, Taka should do just as good or he is a lesser rider!" Put any MotoGP rider on an early spring '07 version of the 800 and see how well he would do now. The bikes develops ... unless you havent noticed the honda 250 doesn't.

I'm willing to give the guy a chance. I suspect he's a token rider but the guys woring in and around the padock know a thing or two we will never know. They should be better at evaluating Taka's performance this year than we are.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 25 2008, 01:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>While i don't want to dispute Taka being a token rider, but what's the big fuzz, there has been a token rider form Japan for at least two decades, about time to get used to it?

That said theres plenty rubish here.
Comparing GP250 with suport series in national championships, wtf is that?

I'm willing to give the guy a chance. I suspect he's a token rider but the guys woring in and around the padock know a thing or two we will never know. They should be better at evaluating Taka's performance this year than we are.
Okay <strike>Tom</strike> Babel.

You're still living in the dream world that 250s are somehow some magical place with the market cornered on talent. You ask, what is the fuss, the fuss is people like you and Tom and others go around praising certain riders and series as the best in the world, when clearly they are promoted for other motives. Yet, you apply the double standard when it comes to American riders saying they are there because of marketing. I'm calling you on .........

You said a support national series couldn’t be compared? Well how about an AMA superbike class? Or better yet, a WSBK class? Well perhaps if we were talking about a Scandinavian national series, then yeah I’d say they don’t compare to MotoGP’s lower feeder classes, but when you are talking about the AMA its a different story (something you and Tom pretend to know something about). You place some magical prestige on the 250s but they are nothing more than an over glorified feeder series, nothing more. Now here you try to justify a guy who has only cracked into the top 10 twice in his 8-year career? Give me a ....... break, I know you're bias and love to take the opposite view for the sake of using your very poor debating skills; but please don't show your ... to be dumb and stupid too.

So you are willing to give him a chance? Hahaha, ok dude, I think this “tire expert” thing is going to your head, now you are a talent expert too? Like we have a choice who these nutballs pick. I could hear you fools now, if they gave a guy classified 7th in the AMA superbike class (at very least coparable to a clearly lower class that are 250s) you and like minded would be screaming bloody murder. Well that is what they are doing. And you know what, he may do all right considering the farce that is MotoGP’s favoritism. I'm sure the Japs will give him their "SAME" tires as everybody else, hell its not like they haven't done it before for "special" riders. (You as the tire expert should know that).

Go ahead then, make a case why Taka is deserving. You can start with his stellar championships and wins. I'm listening.....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 25 2008, 11:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Okay <strike>Tom</strike> Babel.

You're still living in the dream world that 250s are somehow some magical place with the market cornered on talent. You ask, what is the fuss, the fuss is people like you and Tom and others go around praising certain riders and series as the best in the world, when clearly they are promoted for other motives. Yet, you apply the double standard when it comes to American riders saying they are there because of marketing. I'm calling you on .........

Well, I'm just looking at the results today and I think that last years 250 riders are doing pretty well compared to the AMA superbike champions and WSBK riders. Don't you think so too?
Don't make a habit of calling on your own ........ Jumkie.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bootsakah @ Sep 25 2008, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have to agree with Jumkie and the others, this one has "token" written all over it. Takahashi is simply "the next best Japanese rider available for MotoGP". Clearly they are filling in a market need with a rider carrying a certain passport. It's been said before, MotoGP will always have at least 1 Japanese rider. Just as Jumkie implies, why is it always touted that MotoGP is the "best of the best" when there clearly is grid filler.

Last year we got the top 3 guys from the 250 class, Lorenzo, Dovi, DeAngelis; so far two of them have done very well. This years current top 3 in 250's are Simoncelli, Bautista and Kallio, up to this point we are fairly certain Simoncelli and Bautista are staying in 250s for '09. Kallio is heavily rumored to be moving to Alice. Takahashi is sitting in 7th, granted he is doing a good job with the supposed "underpowered" Honda, but honestly I don't put a lot of weight into that claim as Dovi finished 2nd in the championship the two years before with the Honda. So technically he should be able to at the least be 2nd on the "underpowered" Honda. On merit Takahashi is not deserving of a MotoGP ride, nor was Guintoli for that matter (a different topic in itself).

Yeah....we all know bikes stay the same year in year out. Yeah right.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 25 2008, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"Dovi did well on that bike, Taka should do just as good or he is a lesser rider!" Put any MotoGP rider on an early spring '07 version of the 800 and see how well he would do now. The bikes develops ... unless you havent noticed the honda 250 doesn't.
Once again, how much have the 250s really developed since last year? The 800s are in their second year. The 250s have been around forever and are about to be phased out. That means 1) the 800s are advancing very, very rapidly at this point and 2) the 250s aren't. I'm not saying he hasn't been disadvantaged by a lack of bike development, but comparing the development in a feeder series with a specification that's been around for practically forever (and is going to come to a dead end very soon) to that in the premier class that's only in its second year of the current specification is a bit of a stretch.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mattsteg @ Sep 26 2008, 12:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Once again, how much have the 250s really developed since last year? The 800s are in their second year. The 250s have been around forever and are about to be phased out. That means 1) the 800s are advancing very, very rapidly at this point and 2) the 250s aren't. I'm not saying he hasn't been disadvantaged by a lack of bike development, but comparing the development in a feeder series with a specification that's been around for practically forever (and is going to come to a dead end very soon) to that in the premier class that's only in its second year of the current specification is a bit of a stretch.

True the 250's does develop slower, but don't think for a second that they don't develop at all. It was a big step up for Simonchelli when he got factory support in the middle of this season.
Also, I regard Dovi's performance last year very high. I would be surpiced if he doesn't become a champion in the top class. Following him on the Honda and repeat his performance with a bike with another year on it's back and you would have the new wonder boy after Rossi.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mattsteg @ Sep 25 2008, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Once again, how much have the 250s really developed since last year? The 800s are in their second year. The 250s have been around forever and are about to be phased out. That means 1) the 800s are advancing very, very rapidly at this point and 2) the 250s aren't. I'm not saying he hasn't been disadvantaged by a lack of bike development, but comparing the development in a feeder series with a specification that's been around for practically forever (and is going to come to a dead end very soon) to that in the premier class that's only in its second year of the current specification is a bit of a stretch.

Great point Matt, everyone claimed during Dovi's time on the 250 that the Honda was grossly underpowered compared to Aprilia. And of course the same excuse is applied to Takahashi during his time on Honda. Slightly underpowered maybe, but a huge disadvantage, I doubt it. In my opinion I think it is an exaggeration to call it underpowered, Dovi's performance record on it shows. As Matt points out, 2 stroke tech is old, and any advances year to year are going to be very slight. Now I'm sure there are plenty out there that will say Dovi's skill at getting the most out of a bike is what brought him success on the 250 and now 800 Honda. If this holds true Dovi will be the champion next year, once he is finally on a proven race winner factory Honda. We shall see.