Stoner threatens to leave MotoGP over rules

Gaz · Nov 14, 2011

Jumkie said:
You want to talk beaches? (Good diversion, as I'm starting to think we all just imagined Stoner suggested an early exit of the sport, and is now just a non-newsworthy issue, as are most pronouncements by current series champions).

but... I'm sure your beaches have nothing on South Mexican white sand beaches.

13071:mexico-cancun-beach.jpg]

Au contraire my good Meximan friend

http://blog.thecheaproute.com/hyams-beach-whitest-sand-beach-in-the-world/

Yup, a beach less that 15 minutes from my workplace recognised as the whitest white sand beach in the world.

Oh, and Jervis Bay is 10 minutes away (although I do live 60 minutes away from the Bay) and Jervis has some damn fine beaches

33 Coupe · Nov 14, 2011

Mr Squiggle said:
.... it....lets just bolt some JATO's on either side and the riders can light the blue touch paper when they need to overtake a slower rider

I'm rather partial to Nitrous Oxide. Give them a 2lb bottle & they can hit the button whenever they want until the bottle is empty. Then you're on your own

Jumkie · Nov 14, 2011

Frizzle said:
Of course it happened.

I haven't argued costs need to be looked at, nor have I argued that we need to close up the racing to spice up the show. All are valid points & a strategy is needed to achieve this.

All I am saying is that perhaps for some of them, the thought of no longer being able to ride the bees knees proto type bike after riding them for years & then being asked to ride a dumbed down spec bike may dull the passion in them a bit. Perhaps we should ask Hamilton & Vettel etc if they would like to drive a UK touring car from now on in Formula one & see what response we get.

Is there any other series where these guys get to ride such state of the art machinery? How much difference will there be riding a CRT, world superbike or even an Aussie superbike?

This I think is what Casey is getting at.

Thanx for ur input Friz. Im replying from my fone (yes, sick i know), so i cant look back easily what u first posted on the thread, but from memory i think u made the point that this was mountain of mole hill, and something about Stoner losing interest in production derived racing.

Sorry for short reply, i think u deserve more as i respect ur opinion (as i do Gaz & MikeM). So i'll only make a couple points. One point i want to highlight; In my post (the one u quote above) i say, the champ's words will be scrutinized "for better or worse". I thinks this is part of the issue. It simply a position that comes with the territory of being the champ. This is his new reality nit just for him, but the rest of us followers of the sport. That is, his words have consequence. On the point of him expressing his apprehension on new formula, others had similar takes, i agree that much. My issue was with the further step he made. I can see disagreement among our various opinions on the magitude of importance to give his last qualification of his statement, but to dismiss it wholly seems a bit disconnected to the reality in which is he now under.

Anyway, i'll get back to u once on the computer bro.

frizzle · Nov 14, 2011

Jumkie said:
Thanx for ur input Friz. Im replying from my fone (yes, sick i know), so i cant look back easily what u first posted on the thread, but from memory i think u made the point that this was mountain of mole hill, and something about Stoner losing interest in production derived racing.

Sorry for short reply, i think u deserve more as i respect ur opinion (as i do Gaz & MikeM). So i'll only make a couple points. One point i want to highlight; In my post (the one u quote above) i say, the champ's words will be scrutinized "for better or worse". I thinks this is part of the issue. It simply a position that comes with the territory of being the champ. This is his new reality nit just for him, but the rest of us followers of the sport. That is, his words have consequence. On the point of him expressing his apprehension on new formula, others had similar takes, i agree that much. My issue was with the further step he made. I can see disagreement among our various opinions on the magitude of importance to give his last qualification of his statement, but to dismiss it wholly seems a bit disconnected to the reality in which is he now under.

Anyway, i'll get back to u once on the computer bro.

I gotta admit I'm not sure what else he said. Perhaps he made an ... of himself? it wont be the first time or last time for sure.

I don't think him winning the title this year gives him any more valid an opinion than anyone else either.

He doesn't have a big fan base. If he left & did something else the subscriptions & viewer numbers would hardly notice.

I think he knows that too. He isn't popular, so perhaps he was just being honest rather than threatening?

chopperman · Nov 15, 2011

Mr Squiggle said:
.... it....lets just bolt some JATO's on either side and the riders can light the blue touch paper when they need to overtake a slower rider

Its easy to just sit there picking holes in others suggestions while suggestiong nothing yourself. If where not talking about stoner you really have nothing to say

michaelm · Nov 15, 2011

basspete said:
Well it's like when I said that having worked with kids in horrific situations, and being part of the mechanism that takes them away, I didn't think Stoner had anything to greet aboot, I was told I was just talking crap because Stoner beat Rossi. And then folk greet because I say they can't understand what they are reading. Unreal mate

It is vaguely possible I have some familiarity with such things also, but I don't see that it has anything to do with bike racing or this forum, and in particular with when and for what reason stoner decides to retire. I once went to see the Ken Loach film "Raining Stones " with a very good friend of mine who was a drug and alcohol counseller at the time. It was a well scripted, well acted film in tune with the personal philosophy of both of us, but as she said this is my life, not what I want to watch for entertainment.

I take jumkie's point that motogp is pretty well in crisis and that the reigning world champion apparently opposing the only current initiative to fix it is not helpful, even if that was not what he intended, had not thought about this and was merely expressing his personal philosophy about racing. As others have said though you seem to be the only three guys on the internet who are putting such a dire interpretation on this, it had not even been raised when I last looked at the crash and mcn forums, both of which still have their share of non-stonerphiles.

I am sorry but I still think any argument that stoner has some duty not to retire when and if he feels like it for whatever reason he chooses, like anybody else fortunate enough to have that choice, is nonsensical. What is sufficient for him and his family is surely up to them. I can't see that being a dual world champion obliges him to have extravagant tastes in any case, and nor does he appear to have them. Troy bayliss who admittedly retired at an advanced age by most standards but started much later having previously made a presumably adequate but not extravagant living as a panelbeater retired mainly at his wife's insistence when he could still have made high money for at least one more season and possibly have won another championship, and I strongly doubt he would have made anything like the money stoner has . If you want to say he is a much more charismatic and likeable bloke than stoner, you may well be correct, but this is hardly germane to the issue.

You guys before this year seemed strongly of the opinion stoner was a one hit wonder anyway, and his retiring early would further prove mick doohan's point with which I agree that few if any have the fortitude to endure at the top for as long as valentino.

Baffy · Nov 15, 2011

chopperman said:
Stoner parents worked their ..... off to realise their sons dream. How do you think they feel hearing this son threaten to jack. Its like cartman from southpark not getting his own way. "Am Goin Home".

Are you telling me Stoner knows what 9 to 5 5 days a week on minimum wage. Having to work overtime on the weekends to feed and keep a roof over his familys head ? I put the Hilton part in because i knew a Neo bopper like you would jump on that rather that the point about stoner talking about pissing aways a life most normal men can only dream of. Would you have the luxury of jacking because your boss now wants to sell cars instead of boats ?

From my limited knowledge.. not happy, pappa stoner pulls a lot of strings within caseys career.

Jumkie said:
You want to talk beaches? (Good diversion, as I'm starting to think we all just imagined Stoner suggested an early exit of the sport, and is now just a non-newsworthy issue, as are most pronouncements by current series champions).

but... I'm sure your beaches have nothing on South Mexican white sand beaches.

13071:mexico-cancun-beach.jpg]

I agree with you in that stoner has opened his mouth and stuck both his feet in there. But hanging around and building a 'legacy' is something that I never pictured Stoner doing.

I think thats why this article didn't surprise me in the slightest.

It's certinaly provided a few days entertainment though!!

basspete · Nov 15, 2011

michaelm said:
It is vaguely possible I have some familiarity with such things also, but I don't see that it has anything to do with bike racing or this forum, and in particular with when and for what reason stoner decides to retire. I once went to see the Ken Loach film "Raining Stones " with a very good friend of mine who was a drug and alcohol counseller at the time. It was a well scripted, well acted film in tune with the personal philosophy of both of us, but as she said this is my life, not what I want to watch for entertainment.

I take jumkie's point that motogp is pretty well in crisis and that the reigning world champion apparently opposing the only current initiative to fix it is not helpful, even if that was not what he intended, had not thought about this and was merely expressing his personal philosophy about racing. As others have said though you seem to be the only three guys on the internet who are putting such a dire interpretation on this, it had not even been raised when I last looked at the crash and mcn forums, both of which still have their share of non-stonerphiles.

I am sorry but I still think any argument that stoner has some duty not to retire when and if he feels like it for whatever reason he chooses, like anybody else fortunate enough to have that choice, is nonsensical. What is sufficient for him and his family is surely up to them. I can't see that being a dual world champion obliges him to have extravagant tastes in any case, and nor does he appear to have them. Troy bayliss who admittedly retired at an advanced age by most standards but started much later having previously made a presumably adequate but not extravagant living as a panelbeater retired mainly at his wife's insistence when he could still have made high money for at least one more season and possibly have won another championship, and I strongly doubt he would have made anything like the money stoner has . If you want to say he is a much more charismatic and likeable bloke that stoner, you may well be correct, but this is hardly germane to the issue.

You guys before this year seemed strongly of the opinion stoner was a one hit wonder anyway, and his retiring early would further prove mick doohan's point with which I agree that few if any have the fortitude to endure at the top for as long as valentino.

Good post, my point was, that my career choice has made me a different person, and in particular, the kind o person that doesn't like to hear folks with an enviable lifestyle moan about what they are doing. I've got total admiration for anyone who is riding a motorcycle at that level, but please, keep the toys in the pram. Most folk would be overawed and thankfull to be paid to ride a motorcyle on track for a living.

I''l be quite honest, my opinion of Stoner has drastically changed this year, I did think he was the new Spencer or Lil John who was fast as feck, but liable to meltdown at any moment. I'd be very surprised if he cracks under pressure defending this title, but we have to wait and see.

But none of the supposed Stoner haters on here are saying he's a ..... rider, the names being banded about here as haters were more than happy to cheer him across the line at Silverstone this year, and eceryone agreed it was an absolutely awesome display.

Gaz · Nov 15, 2011

basspete said:
But none of the supposed Stoner haters on here are saying he's a ..... rider, the names being banded about here as haters were more than happy to cheer him across the line at Silverstone this year, and eceryone agreed it was an absolutely awesome display.

And Pete, herein I think lay the conundrum or enigma (if you will) that surrounds Stoner.

I feel that most, if not all want to like him for what he gives them visually on track and on a motorcycle, but that many than look at his presentation (which I must say that personally I have little issue with) and then balance that against the presentation of others and their own expectations and it affects their over feel for Stoner.

I am yet to see or read of a person (well, people whom opinions I will give credence to) who genuinely can say that his riding is anything short of enthralling to watch as he wrings the damn neck of the machine. Me, I love watching it and can watch it time and again for I find it artistic and poetry at it's finest and something I do find very reminiscent of riders of the late 80's through to mid 90's on the 500.

Gaz

Mr Squiggle · Nov 15, 2011

chopperman said:
Its easy to just sit there picking holes in others suggestions while suggestiong nothing yourself. If where not talking about stoner you really have nothing to say

You really are quite the princess arent you.....

I was having a joke. Like you often do - but thats OK when you do it right?

I suggested Jet Assisted Take Off rockets as a piss take - they are about as relevant to MotoGP as turbos will ever be....but you were actually being serious - which I found quite comical

And I talk about many apsects of MotoGP other than Casey Stoner but pardon me for actually commenting on Casey Stoner in a Casey Stoner thread that YOU initiated - how about I talk about Tony Elias instead....would that be more relevant?

The things spoken about Stoner by you and many other similar minded fans over the last few years were deplorable....you guys have gotten off lightly in my opinion as most people have taken the high ground and resisted the temptation to rub your noses in it.

You should be grateful that you have your health, family and roof over your head - those are the important things in life. This is just a sport....it aint worth getting so uptight about. I get that you are hurting Rog - the guy you hate just won the world championship.....tough. Just deal with it.

michaelm · Nov 15, 2011

Baffy said:
From my limited knowledge.. not happy, pappa stoner pulls a lot of strings within caseys career.

It is still his life though, and likely the only one he is going to have.

Stoner's family don't strike me as having done all they did merely in the hope of a bonanza, but I wouldn't really know.

michaelm · Nov 15, 2011

basspete said:
Good post, my point was, that my career choice has made me a different person, and in particular, the kind o person that doesn't like to hear folks with an enviable lifestyle moan about what they are doing. I've got total admiration for anyone who is riding a motorcycle at that level, but please, keep the toys in the pram. Most folk would be overawed and thankfull to be paid to ride a motorcyle on track for a living.

I''l be quite honest, my opinion of Stoner has drastically changed this year, I did think he was the new Spencer or Lil John who was fast as feck, but liable to meltdown at any moment. I'd be very surprised if he cracks under pressure defending this title, but we have to wait and see.

But none of the supposed Stoner haters on here are saying he's a ..... rider, the names being banded about here as haters were more than happy to cheer him across the line at Silverstone this year, and eceryone agreed it was an absolutely awesome display.

I am in absolutely no doubt that you are an intelligent and thoughtful guy with a laudable social conscience. I have nothing but admiration for people who do the job you did, for not much money by many standards often still to be criticised in the press, in this country anyway, for not being able to solve insoluble problems.

My problem with you guys is that my generations of Irish ancestry enable the (occasional) effects of alcohol to be largely undetectable in my prose.

chopperman · Nov 15, 2011

Mr Squiggle said:
You really are quite the princess arent you.....

I was having a joke. Like you often do - but thats OK when you do it right?

I suggested Jet Assisted Take Off rockets as a piss take - they are about as relevant to MotoGP as turbos will ever be....but you were actually being serious - which I found quite comical

And I talk about many apsects of MotoGP other than Casey Stoner but pardon me for actually commenting on Casey Stoner in a Casey Stoner thread that YOU initiated - how about I talk about Tony Elias instead....would that be more relevant?

The things spoken about Stoner by you and many other similar minded fans over the last few years were deplorable....you guys have gotten off lightly in my opinion as most people have taken the high ground and resisted the temptation to rub your noses in it.

You should be grateful that you have your health, family and roof over your head - those are the important things in life. This is just a sport....it aint worth getting so uptight about. I get that you are hurting Rog - the guy you hate just won the world championship.....tough. Just deal with it.

You picked and quoted a post where i made suggestions on alternitives to CRT at andy roos request. You poke fun but make no suggestions yourself. I then point out you have nothing to say unless its about stoner. Yes this thread was about stoner and yes you have had a lot to say but nothing of any worth.

I dont hate stoner but he does irritate me as do some of his bopper fans . Infact as many here will say, its his fans that have turned people away from stoner !

By the way, i know what JATO means

povol · Nov 15, 2011

Gaz said:
And Pete, herein I think lay the conundrum or enigma (if you will) that surrounds Stoner.

I feel that most, if not all want to like him for what he gives them visually on track and on a motorcycle, but that many than look at his presentation (which I must say that personally I have little issue with) and then balance that against the presentation of others and their own expectations and it affects their over feel for Stoner.

I am yet to see or read of a person (well, people whom opinions I will give credence to) who genuinely can say that his riding is anything short of enthralling to watch as he wrings the damn neck of the machine. Me, I love watching it and can watch it time and again for I find it artistic and poetry at it's finest and something I do find very reminiscent of riders of the late 80's through to mid 90's on the 500.

Gaz

Yep, i could really care less about presentation, the connection for me is the 45 minutes i get to watch them work. Its not like we are going to hang out and be pals, and none of their decisions have any bearing on my life whatsoever. They owe me nothing, i owe them nothing. I have been following GP for longer than i care to remember, and i have purchased ONE piece of merchandise in that time that had a riders name on it, and that was Nicky's championship T-Shirt. I buy an event shirt or hat at every race i attend, but thats it. Come to think of it, except for that one, i have never purchased any piece of merchandise for any sporting event that i have attended that had a participants name on it. That spans NFL, Nascar, AMA, Moto GP, NBA etc:, I just do not put athletes on a pedestal in that way. What Casey Stoner, or any other athlete does in regards to his career, is absolutely none of my business. If he walked today, i do not feel entitled to an explanation as to why. If thats the way he feels, so be it. Who gets his seat is my next thought.

Jumkie · Nov 15, 2011

It seems the conversation has become a bit more civil since some of us started talking beaches. Perhaps its because the pictures had a soothing effect. Pov is from Tennessee, a landlocked state. So no beach for him but they do have lakes.

13081:Ten.jpg]

Anyway, I don't quite buy this, I don't care about them other than what they do on the track, argument. This forum is littered with post about what they do and say off the track.

Geo Nerd · Nov 15, 2011

chopperman said:
Stoner parents worked their ..... off to realise their sons dream. How do you think they feel hearing this son threaten to jack. Its like cartman from southpark not getting his own way. "Am Goin Home".

Are you telling me Stoner knows what 9 to 5 5 days a week on minimum wage. Having to work overtime on the weekends to feed and keep a roof over his familys head ? I put the Hilton part in because i knew a Neo bopper like you would jump on that rather that the point about stoner talking about pissing aways a life most normal men can only dream of. Would you have the luxury of jacking because your boss now wants to sell cars instead of boats ?

I've got three questions for you.

WTF makes you believe that he doesn't fully appreciate the sacrifices his parent's made?

(Or are you just flinging .... as usual?)

What makes you think he hasn't already taken good care of them?

(ditto)

How many zeros does a person need in the bank?

Get a clue. He and his family are set for life. If Casey wants to retire before he reaches 30 (alive, and with a relatively intact body) and spend his remaining days fishing and shagging the wifey, who the .... are you to denounce his choice? I can understand people feeling some level of envy, but your sanctimonious moralizing is pathetic.

basspete · Nov 15, 2011

Geo Nerd said:
I've got three questions for you.

WTF makes you believe that he doesn't fully appreciate the sacrifices his parent's made?

(Or are you just flinging .... as usual?)

What makes you think he hasn't already taken good care of them?

(ditto)

How many zeros does a person need in the bank?

Get a clue. He and his family are set for life. If Casey wants to retire before he reaches 30 (alive, and with a relatively intact body) and spend his remaining days fishing and shagging the wifey, who the .... are you to denounce his choice? I can understand people feeling some level of envy, but your sanctimonious moralizing is pathetic.

Hey congrats on getting a thesaurus!

dwoodhouse · Nov 15, 2011

chopperman said:
Dont be to harsh on the lad curve. He has never had a real job on regular pay. A family to feed and a mortgage to pay. You cant expect him to realise how lucky he is when he has never experianced adulthood like the rest of us.

Would you expect Paris Hilton to understand the single mum working on the supermarket checkout ?

Of course she does. Haven't you seen the show, the simple life? She is totally down to earth.

dwoodhouse · Nov 15, 2011

Mr Squiggle said:
A reasonable and civilised post .....well done. Out of all the people that have actually stated they would like to change their attitude towards riders after Sics tragic passing you seem to be the only guy that has so far been trying so I applaud you.

In all seriousness I am quite happy for someone to prove me wrong. No really. If you can show me beyond reasonable doubt that I am mistaken I will acknowledge that without any qualms.

Problem on forums like this is that people often argue about hypothetical scenarios that dont have a right or wrong answer....

Anyway as far as extracting a bikes potential goes so far Stoner is the only guy who can lay claim that he was able to push the Ducati to its ultimate performance threshold...you only need to look to his teamates as a performance indicator. Rossi himself has admitted he either cant (doesnt have the ability) or wont (doesnt have the cajones) to push the Ducati to the same extent...no shame in that. Stoner is a freak. Rossi is an all time great. Lets just leave it at that.

Since Stoner has entered international bike racing he has never finished behind a team mate in 125, 250, 990 or 800cc formulas....that may change next year as Dani is a fantastic racer and will offer Casey a huge challenge. He just needs the stars to align in a single season - he has the talent to finally get a title, he just needs the luck.

Maybe there is hope for us getting on after all.

dwoodhouse · Nov 15, 2011

chopperman said:
This is a beach you bunch of .....

13073:North_Sea_and_Rocky_Beach_-_geograph.org.uk_-_126954.jpg]

Looks like the aftermath of a nuclear hallecaust. Good luck with that.

Stoner threatens to leave MotoGP over rules

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