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BarryMachine said:
I'd agree with that. I can remember the last snake I killed. Don't know why I had never thought about not killing one before but I for some reason I decided I really had no reason to kill it, and actually felt quite bad about having killed this one. That was about 20 years ago. Now i tend to remove them by other means. Eg. One day my son was outside ( age about 6 ) and I heard him start to scream in terror, when I ran outside he was running toward me yelling snake and in a panic. I grabbed him, in a bit of a panic myself, and gave him a shake and said "where did it bite you!", he stopped and said rather clearly and in the calmest voice "oh no dad it didn't bite me" at which I calmed down too
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We then retraced his steps and found the snake. And watched it for a while as it headed toward a damp shaded part of the garden. It was a pretty dry period and we figured he was thirsty so we turned on the mist sprinklers, in a spot not far from him. In a few minutes he was in that spot and just basking in the drips of water and taking in as much as he could. When he'd had his fill he moved of and I never saw him again. Besides we had an huge ( 8 to 9 foot ) diamond python living at our place ( in the roof space mostly.) he tended to shift off the interlopers and was an "ok" rat catcher before we got cats.



Apart from their venom, they were really not much different from our somewhat tame diamond python, so we thereafter shift them rather than kill them. Better to train the kids than attempt to kill all snakes is probably the best way. As i said in an earlier post my reaction these days is usually just to start a bike up ( I usually seem to have one at hand ).



But to be honest, if hit, I still think its better to not rely on the thought that there will be imminent medical attention. I had a grand uncle who was chopping wood in his youth, he was bitten by a snake as he grabbed the next piece to split. According to my grandfather the uncles next action ( on the down stroke of the ace was to take off the bitten finger). It was the area to the northeast of Lismore NSW ( kinda near Andyroo ) so the trip to Lismore Hospital was an "iffy" few hours, and I gather there were no antivenins back then.

Regardless of whether or not we believed him as children the fact was that he was there to tell us the story, and since he told us the story we tended to take on the ethos of "act fast and don't wait for "help", in some occasions" ..... I'm still a bit like that today really. I think the biggest mistake you can make is think " she'll be fine an ambo will come .... " .



So don't worry, I'm not a snake killer. When I say "start a bike" its just to scare a snake off, its just the vibration of the engine thumps to scare them away ........ non-contact. Snakes have every right to exist by me. I've even removed a shoelace sized one peaceably, from inside the house, discovered in the strobe flash of a lazer tag set whilst the kids had all the lights off and playing ...... but thats another story. I'm even careful when slashing/mowing these days, not for my sake but for the snakes, folk forget that sure snakes can be dangerous ........ but humans are a far greater danger to them.

Besides they do good, they eat rats ( I don't need rats, nor their damage, and feel no remorse over their demise ), and the baby snakes will even eat funnelwebs ....... those I can't abide.
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Good on ya barry. I love snakes. Most peeps that get bitten is because they did not respect the snake and tried to pick it up. Most snakes can only strike 1/3 length of their body, if you stay at least the whole length away you are in no danger. The trouble start's when they are in your house and most peeps are not as skilled as you in removing them so killing them is the easier safer option. You have obviously gained your knoledge and skill over years of living amounst them. While i hate the thought of one being killed i would rather that than an unskilled person trying to remove it and getting tagged.
 
JohnnyKnockdown said:
This is maybe the creepiest place on earth
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lol pretty cool lookin snakes.. 1 snake for every pace though, geez.. how'd you like to be assigned to manning that lighthouse hah.. every month they come back,. wondering why its not functioning, dude's dead,,...



my question is, how the hell did it get so dense,... on an island.. what'd some drop out of the sky? did a brave one swim it way back when? or is it where all you don't kill snake-types end up fedex'ing your spoils to?
 
Heh. I happened to read Theodore Sturgeon's original short story, KILLDOZER, last night. Not bad ; the 1974 movie didn't do it justice. JK's video made me wonder, which would you rather be stranded on an island with, zillions of deadly snakes, or a D7 possessed by a malevolent alien entity?
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The island isn't far from shore. Snakes swim well, and a few probably got swept out to sea during an ancient hurricane. What's surprising is that the island can support so many. Guessing the migratory birds Attenborough mentioned provide enough food?
 
michaelm said:
Bunyip obviously has the knowledge on all this, but very few people actually die of snake bite in Australia. Antivenene is widely available, and all the hospitals even the small ones have well established protocols. I think far more people die in India and Africa, partly because of greater overlap of snake and human habitats, and partly because of lesser availability of antivenene and perhaps more debilitation in some of the bitten. I don't know whether cobras, mambas etc are more aggressive than Australian snakes. The fierce snake/inland taipan reputedly has the most deadly venom in the world, but afaik there are no reports of them killing anyone, or even biting anyone in the wild; there are no people where they are, and they are apparently timid. Nevertheless an adult woman was recently reported in the general press to have died from a brown snake bite despite antivenene. Those buggers grow quite large, have venom very deadly to mice at least and can be quite aggressive I am told.



I am a city slicker and not enamoured of snakes, but you see redbellied black snakes in the vicinity of creeks even on inner city golf courses in Sydney; they are generally fine unless you step on them and not as deadly as some. I did once play on a golf course at Coolum on the Queensland Sunshine Coast where the rough was signposted as being snake habitat; since this would likely involve coastal taipans there seemed to be little enthusiasm in general to search for lost golf balls, and none at all from me.
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Thanks Michael for information and perspective from your side of the pond. Of course, in Australia, snake bites being an emergency, antivenene will be provided as a matter of course and treatment will be essentially be free under our medicare system. However pets are not covered by such a system, and unless pet insurance is taken out ( not by a high percentage), the cost of antivene has to be footed by the pet owner. About 20 years ago, it was provided very cheaply by CSL (commonwealth serum laboratories), but these days the cost is very high and the price of polyvalent antivenene (tiger-brown) has risen from about $60 to currently over $600.Black snake bites are treated by tiger snake antivenene(same type).

I have some old statistics that show survival rates of dogs and cats treated with iv fluids but no antivenene, was around 60% and rose to around 82% with antivenene. Doesn,t sound like a big improvement does it. It is important to note that that a standard dose of antivenene is enough to neutralise an average amount of venom injected. Unfortunately some bites can contain many times more venom and hence require multiple doses of antivenene. This is usually not economically posssible and hence you have the less than 100% survival rate with antivenene.

Snake antivenene is produced from (hyperimmune) horses , so a risk of anaphylaxis exists. In Australia- cats have a much better survival rate than dogs. Also, it would seem that dogs are bitten a lot more frequently than humans for obvious reasons. I know this is all a bit academic, but it may interest some of you.

My personal encounters with snakes have mostly involved black snakes-very shy and placid, and brown snakes- very aggressive. Been chased by one........very scary. There was a tragic incident in western Sydney afew years ago. Apparently he was doing a Steve Irwin with a brown snake- not a great idea.



http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/teenage-snake-bite-victim-dies/2007/01/14/1168709608372.html



Luckily there are no fierce snakes where Barry lives,( unless one escaped from the local reptile park. just plenty of other nasty poisonous species.
 
Bunyip said:
Luckily there are no fierce snakes where Barry lives,( unless one escaped from the local reptile park. just plenty of other nasty poisonous species.
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I'll say ...... it'd be even less a Utopia.

Forgot about the Reptile park ....... I know a few folk who work up there, but the girls are mammal carers and the fellow does alligators. Don't know any of the snake people, maybe they go through staff ...... cos don't they milk them for CSL up there? I know they milk the funnelwebs cos i used to drop them off there regularly ........ never check the "letter box" outside the reptile park ....... its actually a drop off point for caught funnelwebs
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Who knows, some smartarse has probably left an unrestrained snake or two in the past.
 
Bunyip said:
Thanks Michael for information and perspective from your side of the pond. Of course, in Australia, snake bites being an emergency, antivenene will be provided as a matter of course and treatment will be essentially be free under our medicare system. However pets are not covered by such a system, and unless pet insurance is taken out (not by a high percentage), the cost of antivene has to be footed by the pet owner. About 20 years ago, it was provided very cheaply by CSL (commonwealth serum laboratories), but these days the cost is very high and the price of polyvalent antivenene (tiger-brown) has risen from about $60 to currently over $600.Black snake bites are treated by tiger snake antivenene(same type).
Click to expand...



Lucky you! Around here rattlesnake antivenin runs ~5,000! dollars per vial, and a solid bite can require 5, 10, even dozens of vials for the nastier Mojave species. This ..... kept one of those as a pet and suffered the predictable consequences. http://community.discovery.com/eve/...?f=6471982018&a=tpc&m=6141944049&s=6941912904 (A one-fanged bite on the hand required nearly 60 vials, and still he nearly died.) Venom of the various Mojave species combines hemotoxic and neurotoxic properties and is vastly (~10x) more dangerous than that produced by a typical diamondback, sidewinder, etc.



Rattler temperament seems to vary greatly. Most react when to some degree when you get within 10 feet or so, usually by coiling and holding still. They generally don't start to rattle unless you get closer or loiter nearly. The crankiest snake I can remember was coiled, agitated, and rattling like mad before I got within 40 ft. Others just lay there and ignore you. You could probably step right over them, and maybe even pick them up, with little risk. In general, they tend to be most irritable in the spring, shortly after emerging from hibernation. Cool temps tend to mellow. Other than that, I haven't noticed that any particular species is more aggressive than the others. I think I've seen only about 5 of the 13 species found here http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/arizona-rattlesnakes.shtml
 
Geo Nerd said:
Lucky you! Around here rattlesnake antivenin runs ~5,000! dollars per vial, and a solid bite can require 5, 10, even dozens of vials for the nastier Mojave species. This ..... kept one of those as a pet and suffered the predictable consequences. http://community.dis...49&s=6941912904 (A one-fanged bite on the hand required nearly 60 vials, and still he nearly died.) Venom of the various Mojave species combines hemotoxic and neurotoxic properties and is vastly (~10x) more dangerous than that produced by a typical diamondback, sidewinder, etc.



Rattler temperament seems to vary greatly. Most react when to some degree when you get within 10 feet or so, usually by coiling and holding still. They generally don't start to rattle unless you get closer or loiter nearly. The crankiest snake I can remember was coiled, agitated, and rattling like mad before I got within 40 ft. Others just lay there and ignore you. You could probably step right over them, and maybe even pick them up, with little risk. In general, they tend to be most irritable in the spring, shortly after emerging from hibernation. Cool temps tend to mellow. Other than that, I haven't noticed that any particular species is more aggressive than the others. I think I've seen only about 5 of the 13 species found here http://www.azgfd.gov...tlesnakes.shtml
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Interesting. Interesting medically too, concerning the relative contributions of the venom itself , and anaphyllaxis to the venom or the antivenene. Despite working at country hospitals, and 6 months of ICU and 12 months of Acccident and Emergency in my youth at the Sydney hospital where the world expert in envenomation, particularly funnel web spider venom, worked I have never treated a snake or spider bite envenomation which is why I found Bunyip's experience with probably scores of mammalian snake bites so interesting.



The other point is as you say is that some of these guys are mad. Why would you keep such a snake with a perhaps uniquely deadly venom in a cage in your house in the first place, rather than giving it to the lab/poisons centre straight off, and why would you be surprised that it would be cranky and bite you after such captivity?. I presume his other hobbies are russian roulette and putting his head in lions' mouths in a circus.
 
The most dangerous snake in the world, by far, is the cobra. Not as venomous as a lot of Aussie snakes, but easily enough venom to kill someone, especially someone in some countries in Asia, eg India, who have no access to the medical treatment that Western nations have.



When was the last time a western taipan killed someone in Oz? Compare that to statistics in Asia ( a lot of which are never recorded), of deaths by cobras.
 
Son of Doohan said:
The most dangerous snake in the world, by far, is the cobra. Not as venomous as a lot of Aussie snakes, but easily enough venom to kill someone, especially someone in some countries in Asia, eg India, who have no access to the medical treatment that Western nations have.



When was the last time a western taipan killed someone in Oz? Compare that to statistics in Asia ( a lot of which are never recorded), of deaths by cobras.
Click to expand...

Yes, we did say that earlier in the thread. Hardly anyone dies from snakebite in Australia, of the order of 2 or 3 a year, and none from inland taipan bites, as opposed to tens of thousands in Asia and Africa.
 
devo said:
http://www.darwinawa...pid1999-18.html
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Crikey!! I read that and my ears pricked up!! ...... then it dawned on me .......... my son had a lecturer named Gordon Lyons ......... they get on well and my sone said he has some sort of disability due to a past "accident"



look down this page ....



http://www.newcastle...hy_online.html#



or



http://www.google.co...fw8ZG3BQ&zoom=1



What do you reckon? Him 20 year later ?



Damn I wish it wasn't so late I'd ring my son and confirm or not





Edit: Perhaps not ....... more digging finds this:

http://www.ntnews.co...051_ntnews.html



twas a suicide attempt it would seem. I guess the snake did not oblige too well....
 
Son of Doohan said:
The most dangerous snake in the world, by far, is the cobra. Not as venomous as a lot of Aussie snakes, but easily enough venom to kill someone, especially someone in some countries in Asia, eg India, who have no access to the medical treatment that Western nations have.



When was the last time a western taipan killed someone in Oz? Compare that to statistics in Asia ( a lot of which are never recorded), of deaths by cobras.
Click to expand...

I believe the most dangrous is Bitis arietans (Puff Adder)
 
chopperman said:
I believe the most dangrous is Bitis arietans (Puff Adder)
Click to expand...

I think what he is saying, is there are many snakes with more potent venom that the Indian Cobra, but simply because of the huge population of man and beast in close proximity, the Indian Cobra kills more than any snake. Puff Adder, Russells Viper, Banded Krait, Olive Sea Snake etc: etc all have more potent venom, but dont kill as many people, even though i have read that the Russells Viper is the biggest killer among snakes in Africa. I like snakes, its those ....... spiders that make my ... pucker up.
 
povol said:
I think what he is saying, is there are many snakes with more potent venom that the Indian Cobra, but simply because of the huge population of man and beast in close proximity, the Indian Cobra kills more than any snake. Puff Adder, Russells Viper, Banded Krait, Olive Sea Snake etc: etc all have more potent venom, but dont kill as many people, even though i have read that the Russells Viper is the biggest killer among snakes in Africa. I like snakes, its those ....... spiders that make my ... pucker up.
Click to expand...

I take it you didn't look up the puff adder before feeling the need to comment !
 
povol said:
No, i usually try to go from memory instead of being a Google wizard to make conversation
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Click to expand...



Speaking of which...
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Got curious about snake venom and found this: http://www.venomdoc....D50/ld50sc.html

(More at http://www.venomdoc....50/LD50men.html )



Didn't know the Tiger Rattlesnake was also super-toxic, compared to other Rattlers. Tiger and Mojave venom toxicity is right up there with kraits, sea snakes, cobras and mambas. (Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh My!)



Leave it to the Australians to have the top two critters.
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