As both jumkie and I have said the marshalls probably shouldn't be allowed to help riders restart at all, with danger outweighing fairness among the reasons as you say.
Help Support MotoGP Forum:
As both jumkie and I have said the marshalls probably shouldn't be allowed to help riders restart at all, with danger outweighing fairness among the reasons as you say.
I posted this in another forum so thought I would transfer it
Marshalls, love them or hate them will do the best they can within a given circumstance but it is clear in the original videos (since pulled by DORNA) that most marshalls ran direct to Rossi (one exception). It is not true to say that he was trapped at that point as he had been freed by Stoner lifting teh Honda which released the pressure on Rossi's leg, so yes both riders were free.
However, Rossi was nearer the marshalls and as such became their focal point either deliberately given whom he was (ie. many of these marshalls will be telling the story for years to come) or accidently by being closer. Once Rossi was underway on teh original videos all marshalls start to return to point leaving Stoner alone, one quickly realising and returning to Stoner who frantically gestures with his left arm. Others respond and they attempt to push the Honda, albeit for a short period of time on the track, with a sole marshall going above and beyond and to this marshall I am sure Stoner holds no issues (as it appears to be the same that went straight to him)
For me, the marshalls likely did not deliberately play favourites but got a little caught up in the moment.
Now to the point I feel is being overlooked and that is within the Marshall discussion component.
As a marshall (and I like many have done many meetings) the crucial component of your safety is not necessarily your positioning on track (or off) but the yellow flags waving prior to your point and the incident. This flag is waved to alert riders to an incident within the upcoming sector/s and teh rider is to slow down and be alert as the flag does not describe the type of incident or it's severity.
In short, when a yellow flag incident occurs for each rider who passes through that sector under a yellow flag, their lap time should (in theory given teh Clerk of Course briefing) be affected by being slower. I wonder how many of the GP riders times were slower at this incident or in fact at any incident throughout this and other situations.
For me, the riders do play a part in marshall safety as theoretically they should slow down under yellow flag, yet most if not all do not and as such I would suggest that this is also an area that can be addressed by DORNA and the racing officialdom
Gaz
Marshalls, love them or hate them will do the best they can within a given circumstance but it is clear in the original videos (since pulled by DORNA) that most marshalls ran direct to Rossi (one exception). It is not true to say that he was trapped at that point as he had been freed by Stoner lifting teh Honda which released the pressure on Rossi's leg, so yes both riders were free.
However, Rossi was nearer the marshalls and as such became their focal point either deliberately given whom he was (ie. many of these marshalls will be telling the story for years to come) or accidently by being closer. Once Rossi was underway on teh original videos all marshalls start to return to point leaving Stoner alone, one quickly realising and returning to Stoner who frantically gestures with his left arm. Others respond and they attempt to push the Honda, albeit for a short period of time on the track, with a sole marshall going above and beyond and to this marshall I am sure Stoner holds no issues (as it appears to be the same that went straight to him)
For me, the marshalls likely did not deliberately play favourites but got a little caught up in the moment.
Now to the point I feel is being overlooked and that is within the Marshall discussion component.
As a marshall (and I like many have done many meetings) the crucial component of your safety is not necessarily your positioning on track (or off) but the yellow flags waving prior to your point and the incident. This flag is waved to alert riders to an incident within the upcoming sector/s and teh rider is to slow down and be alert as the flag does not describe the type of incident or it's severity.
In short, when a yellow flag incident occurs for each rider who passes through that sector under a yellow flag, their lap time should (in theory given teh Clerk of Course briefing) be affected by being slower. I wonder how many of the GP riders times were slower at this incident or in fact at any incident throughout this and other situations.
For me, the riders do play a part in marshall safety as theoretically they should slow down under yellow flag, yet most if not all do not and as such I would suggest that this is also an area that can be addressed by DORNA and the racing officialdom
Gaz
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2008
- Messages
- 266
- Location
- Hyderabad, India
Ah.. Now I know which forum you are talking about
Now. The sequnce of events captured by the camera (I am posting it for the thrid time) are
1. The marshals run first to Rossi as he was initially under the bike
2. By the time they reached, Stoner has stood up the bike and we are shown the view through Rossi's butt cam (Which doesn't show how many Marshall attended Casey once Rossi also stood up his bike).
3. By the time the camera angle changes to include both riders, I see both Rossi and Stoner mounted on their bikes and being attended by multiple marshals (Rossi had more marshalls attending).
4. Once both riders are mounted, I don't see any Marshall pushing Rossi or Stoner.
5. Rossi starts moving and Stoner calls at the marshals at which atleast 6 of them run towards him and start pushing. The sequence is cut there
I would say most of the mrshals started leaving once both the riders were on the bikes without realizing that Stoner had killed the bike and it needs bumpstart.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2008
- Messages
- 266
- Location
- Hyderabad, India
I too agree with that as it takes away a variable from the fairness. If your machine can be easily restarted, good for you else, bad luck.
Michael/Jums,
I do actually agree with this sentiment but woudl need to add that the job of a marshall under that scheme would need to be clear and clarified.
I say this as at this opoint we are talking of push-starts to restart the engine, but what (as an example) if Rossi had slid 15 metres into gravel with teh motor still running given he had pulled the clucth in?
For me, if marshalls are not allowed to assist in the re starting of a riders bike, thence they should also be restricted from any activity that involves pushing a bike out of sand traps etc as this provides an advantage to the rider.
Just a thought (and trying to open a bit more discussion)
Gaz
Just to put a different opinion in here, I'd like to say how relieved I am that Pedrobot finished the race safe, sound, and his 2nd place intact.
Noticed how the King fawned over the 2 Spanish riders as if they were his offsprings. At least the 2 behaved like choirboys and shook hands willingly.
Noticed how the King fawned over the 2 Spanish riders as if they were his offsprings. At least the 2 behaved like choirboys and shook hands willingly.
That video does not show what I clearly saw on TV.I saw it from a camera above the whole thing.EVERYONE except ONE was rushing towards ,and helped Rossi.When Stoner was waving towards them ,about three of them aproached Stoner,but not before he waved at them.About three were attending to Stoner after that and pushing him a few meters,then there were only one guy pushing.
What Stoner sais was bad and what shows from a camera above is that he had to wave at them to get their attention.
I would have been pretty mad in Stoners place I would imagine.But also,they can't be running around on track pushing bikes around.And also ,the Honda is hard to get started,but everyone should get the same attention.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2008
- Messages
- 1,086
The good thing about this gp is that it gave another great chance for making new Rossi bashing threads for the haters, and so they can spend their time talking about their favorite subject untill next month. Isn't Rossi really the greatest of all time? he makes threads even when he doesn't perform at his best.
Go Rossi go.
Go Rossi go.
The good thing about this gp is that it gave another great chance for making new Rossi bashing threads for the haters, and so they can spend their time talking about their favorite subject untill next month. Isn't Rossi really the greatest of all time? he makes threads even when he doesn't perform at his best.
Go Rossi go.
Arrabbiata1
Blue Smoker
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2008
- Messages
- 6,925
- Location
- Out of Nowhere
The good thing about this gp is that it gave another great chance for making new Rossi bashing threads for the haters, and so they can spend their time talking about their favorite subject untill next month. Isn't Rossi really the greatest of all time? he makes threads even when he doesn't perform at his best.
Go Rossi go.
Picture the response had it have been the other way around and Casey had taken out Rossi, then gone into his garage to apologise with his helmet still on. Can you honestly say that had this have happened the other way round you would have taken up Casey's cause in the same way as you have defended Valentino? Cut the 'hater' .... - it's tiresome now. I don't hate Rossi, yet he was only competitve due to the weather, that was a .... move, an insincere apology and a fifth place by default instead of the win that he otherwise squandered.
"Go Rossi Go"? I'm glad I'm not blinkered by affiliation, I'd sooner see close racing, and all the major protaganists winning races throughout the season assuring close racing and a tightly contended championship.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
- Messages
- 24,726
- Location
- Your Mom's House
Lost in all of this has been Nicky's podium. Can we talk about this a bit, or should I just make anew thread like everybody else?
11730:NH Jerez.jpg]
If any of you saw the post race interview, you hear Nicky apologizing over and over again about making the podium. Humility to a fault! But as the cliche says, you gotta finish...etc. They showed the tires at the end, and anybody upright must be commended. JohnnyK said Ducati would not see the podium this year, I'm glad he was wrong and Nicky notched this well deserved moment (though its been like a tree falling in the forest and all). Actually, Rossi is partially to thank for this opportunity, as his crash propelled Nicky up the order--you see guys, its not all negative about Rossi.)
Another thing lost in the shuffle was Hopkins top 10 finish. Again, finishing actually seemed the feat for the day.
11733:hopper Jerez.jpg]
On a side note, I thought Hopper's return would surely bring back our good friend BassPete.
11730:NH Jerez.jpg]
If any of you saw the post race interview, you hear Nicky apologizing over and over again about making the podium. Humility to a fault! But as the cliche says, you gotta finish...etc. They showed the tires at the end, and anybody upright must be commended. JohnnyK said Ducati would not see the podium this year, I'm glad he was wrong and Nicky notched this well deserved moment (though its been like a tree falling in the forest and all). Actually, Rossi is partially to thank for this opportunity, as his crash propelled Nicky up the order--you see guys, its not all negative about Rossi.)
Another thing lost in the shuffle was Hopkins top 10 finish. Again, finishing actually seemed the feat for the day.
11733:hopper Jerez.jpg]
On a side note, I thought Hopper's return would surely bring back our good friend BassPete.
Attachments
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2008
- Messages
- 1,617
- Location
- USA!! USA!! USA!!
Ummmm.... Stoner, Rossi, Side Show Simoncelli, Ben '2 Face' Spies, Colin 'no wins' Edwards all dropped out in order for The Kentucky Squid to get his podium. He should be ashamed for celebrating like he did !!
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2007
- Messages
- 11,375
- Location
- Pomona NY
Seriously guys - where is this "Ignore" button I keep hearing about? This .... is like that red irritating pimple I used
to get on my ... that would always come back just when I thought it was gone.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
- Messages
- 24,726
- Location
- Your Mom's House
Good one Woody. Speaking of "sniffing", I notice something during the post race conference that I haven't seen anybody talk about. Nicky was asked if there was a reason why he didn't use engine #1 at Qatar. He replied rather interesting, he even said "I could start a good story for you but I don't have anything rehearsed..." Krop, dare I ask, Lex, do you guys have any dirt or insight on this?
The guy asking the question was this guy...look familiar?
11734:Question1.png]
Nicky's reply: "I could start a good story for you..."
11735:Q NH.png]
Attachments
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2008
- Messages
- 1,086
First of all, i never mentioned you or replied to your post when i said haters, i know very well that Rossi like everybody else does/says things sometimes that are worth of criticising, and nothing is wrong with that. but those who keep criticising him everyday (which i haven't seen you doing that at least YET), are haters, and we can't deny they exist, and Rossi is not the only hated one.
I read this a lot of times; what Rossi fans would have said or done if .... was happend to Rossi, and i know the answer,it will be the same .... as in this thread but about a different Character.
The important thing to me is that i would still judge the situation based on my own understanding and feeling, and like in this case i would have tried to be realistic. I see some of Rossi fans dont see anything wrong with his crash in Jerez, but i still had my own thing to say and i said he ...... up big time, and also said, Stoner shouldn't be penalised for comming back to the track, but i dont find it necessary to go and say the same things on 5 different threads with the same subject(Rossi bashing).
Haters are those who are criticising Rossi, because marshals first went to help Rossi or that they paid less attention to Stoner, or that the Stoners Honda was not starting. And especially those who overnight become the advocate and defenders of everybodie's rights, when their interests colide with that of Rossi's, for example they become the advocate of micheline when Rossi wants Bridgestone, or they hate Lorenzo, but at once start to love him, only because he begins to beat Rossi, or they love Elias because he ...... up Rossi's championship, but at the same time hate Pedrosa for Almost doing the same thing to Hayden.
I dont know what is your problem with (Go Rossi go), That is what i like to say, and i said it for laugh. Do you mean we aren't allowed to support him in this thread or what?
The crash was 3 days ago, Haven't you slept on it yet?At the first 10 minutes i was mad at him, for missing a great chance, for ruining Stoner's (another race/championship contender) race, but MOSTLY because I was robbed of a classic battle, and i wanted to turn off the tv.
but after i saw there were 17 laps more and Pedrosa and others were performing good, i had to be glad that there was still something to watch.
You can reed my comments in this thread, from a few seconds after the crash untill after the race, I blamed and criticised Rossi, but now after 3 days, I see that many haven't got over it yet. Stoner himself, Lorenzo, Rainy and a few others called it a racing incident, but some fans say no it was intentional.
Now you tell me, why so many threads about Rossi's .... up in Jerez, Did rossi fans made these many threads against Elias for ruining Rossi's race in 2006? If yes, then none Rossi fans aren't any different with Rossi fans. Wasn't Rossi more criticised for changing his tire company in the end of the 2007 season, than Pedrosa in the middle of the 2008?
I dont see anything different between fans of different riders. Many fans of All riders are blind for reality.
Similar threads
