*SPOILERS* Jerez Race Thread

[BarryMachine]

yeah, the embarrassment excuse I don't buy. If Rossi was genuinely sorry he would've taken off his helmet and had a word in private - and told Stoner that he will take out Lorenzo and Pedro in the next couple of races.

Hey comeon ......... and he should take himself out as well ....... to be fair

Which I suspect may happen a few times this year anyway.

 

[Austin]

I haven't thought of the embarrassment, I think that's a real possibility. How many times has Rossi been extremely critical of riders making such mistakes? Probably not something he was eager to take responsibility for.

 

[renjith_varma]

To people who wanted to vilify the marshals. Go through the following links



Kropotkins take on the marshal incident My link



Video proof that marshals pushed Casey till the racing line

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYNe6VzhNo0[/media]

 

[Jumkie]

To people who wanted to vilify the marshals. Go through the following links





Video proof that marshals pushed Casey till the racing line

Ren, you seem very smart, but you are sounding a bit like Evolution. Again, what part of AFTER do you not understand? I posted a pic of a bunch of marshals around Stoner and you see Rossi off in the distance. This is what the contention was. BTW, you guys are all hanging your hats on clutching at straws, from the brilliant, "should stoner be punished" in which most everybody has failed to see the genius of the thread, to the grandstanding on Stoner's reply during the "apology", to splitting hairs about how many marshals actually 'pushed'. Start talking about the boneheaded torpedo move that Rossi committed and stop trying to avoid the very obvious (or are you also gonna rationalize it as a mere "mistake"?)

 

[LittleEgg]

Ren, you seem very smart, but you are sounding a bit like Evolution. Again, what part of AFTER do you not understand? I posted a pic of a bunch of marshals around Stoner and you see Rossi off in the distance. This is what the contention was. BTW, you guys are all hanging your hats on clutching at straws, from the brilliant, "should stoner be punished" in which most everybody has failed to see the genius of the thread, to the grandstanding on Stoner's reply during the "apology", to splitting hairs about how many marshals actually 'pushed'. Start talking about the boneheaded torpedo move that Rossi committed and stop trying to avoid the very obvious (or are you also gonna rationalize it as a mere "mistake"?)

1, Lets face it....they made the right decision.

2, LOL



3, What more is there to talk about?....it was a mistake, and anyone thinking its anything more needs to go get some fresh air. Only in this stoner sanctuary would it still be an issue after an apology was delivered asap. Like i said before i cant remember one person who has said it wasnt rossi's fault.



When the accident happened, the guy was 3rd place on a bike he would have been lucky to come in 8th/7th/6th at the start of the race.....referring to the move as a torpedo is actually quite funny. Pure dramatics.



Its threads like this that really expose the rossi hate lol, because all reasoning goes out the window and we have hit a point where its hating for the sake of hating.

 

[renjith_varma]

Ren, you seem very smart, but you are sounding a bit like Evolution. Again, what part of AFTER do you not understand? I posted a pic of a bunch of marshals around Stoner and you see Rossi off in the distance. This is what the contention was. BTW, you guys are all hanging your hats on clutching at straws, from the brilliant, "should stoner be punished" in which most everybody has failed to see the genius of the thread, to the grandstanding on Stoner's reply during the "apology", to splitting hairs about how many marshals actually 'pushed'. Start talking about the boneheaded torpedo move that Rossi committed and stop trying to avoid the very obvious (or are you also gonna rationalize it as a mere "mistake"?)

Jumkie,





Neither do I support punishment for Stoner nor do I support the vilification of marshals. I just think it was a mistake by Rossi which is blown out of proportions.



The pic you posted of Marshals surrounding Stoner when Rossi is in the distance has nothing to do with Marshals not helping. It's the Honda clutch not getting easily bump started that's the culprit there (while Rossi held onto the clutch while falling and was rolling as soon as he mounted the bike).

Please tell me why you think I am wrong here or why you feel I am clutching straws? (Its actually Stoner not clutching his clutch

)



I didn't quite get what you mean by AFTER as I don't have the context there.

But this is what I want to say.



I watched the crash sequence atleast 10 times. The sequence of events as I can see are as follows (from the stoner punishment thread)

1. The marshals run first to Rossi as he was initially under the bike

2. By the time they reached, Stoner has stood up the bike and we are shown the view through Rossi's butt cam (Which doesn't show how many Marshall attended Casey once Rossi also stood up his bike).

3. By the time the camera angle changes to include both riders, I see both Rossi and Stoner mounted on their bikes and being attended by multiple marshals (Rossi had more marshalls attending).

4. Once both riders are mounted, I don't see any Marshall pushing Rossi or Stoner.

5. Rossi starts moving and Stoner calls at the marshals at which atleast 6 of them run towards him and start pushing. The sequence is cut there





I am not sure the marshals are to be of much blame. I don't think they gave any special treatment to Rossi from what I saw (If so, Rossi would have been long gone by the time marshals left both the riders). They obviously didn't know how long they have to push Stoner's bike to restart. I think they gave up once they pushed for some distance (by which any other bike should have started) and decided to drop it as it would be dangerous to remain in the racing line

The trackside video in fact conforms with my thought line.



Now, for the 'bone headed move', I have a bopperesque theory. Lets first debate on the marshal stuff and go on to the move once it is settled

 

[Keshav]

Jumkie,





Neither do I support punishment for Stoner nor do I support the vilification of marshals. I just think it was a mistake by Rossi which is blown out of proportions.

That's easy for you to say. You haven't devoted your entire life since the age of 12 and suffered multiple painful injuries

and lived in campers for most of your life and trained endlessly for one thing and one thing only - that being, winning

races with a dream of gaining a world championship.



That's like a man who spends his whole life sacrificing everything to raise a son and put him through school only to have

him knocked down and crippled by a drunken rickshaw driver and having someone say, Hey don't worry, you can always

have another kid.

 

[rossiofsky]

http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2011/04/04/wayne-s-world-the-takedown

That was a Very nice one.



I have reed his opinions several times on some of Rossi's action's (mistakes), and he always has been fair in my view. I had exactly the same thought on the helmet part. he was so ashamed of himself that he used his helmet, temporarily as a bag on his face. I mostly was upset with Rossi, because his mistake changed the race, and i was just getting ready to watch a hot battle between 3 or even 4 of them.(i know i,m even more ego than them

)



about marshals, they were not wrong to help Rossi first, but after they were sure of his safety, some of them should have go to Stoner and ask him if he needed any help.



Now we will see even more rivalry between Rossi and Stoner, and this will make the races a bit more exciting.

 

[LittleEgg]

That's easy for you to say. You haven't devoted your entire life since the age of 12 and suffered multiple painful injuries

and lived in campers for most of your life and trained endlessly for one thing and one thing only - that being, winning

races with a dream of gaining a world championship.



That's like a man who spends his whole life sacrificing everything to raise a son and put him through school only to have

him knocked down and crippled by a drunken rickshaw driver and having someone say, Hey don't worry, you can always

have another kid.

Thats blowing it out of proportion on a grand scale right there......just to ridiculous levels.

 

[LittleEgg]

That's easy for you to say. You haven't devoted your entire life since the age of 12 and suffered multiple painful injuries

and lived in campers for most of your life and trained endlessly for one thing and one thing only - that being, winning

races with a dream of gaining a world championship.



That's like a man who spends his whole life sacrificing everything to raise a son and put him through school only to have

him knocked down and crippled by a drunken rickshaw driver and having someone say, Hey don't worry, you can always

have another kid.

That second paragraph had me spitting my drink...amazing dramatics!

 

[33 Coupe]

When the accident happened, the guy was 3rd place on a bike he would have been lucky to come in 8th/7th/6th at the start of the race.....referring to the move as a torpedo is actually quite funny. Pure dramatics.

What the hell does his position have to do with anything? Hayden qualified one spot ahead & had already been up to 4th before Rossi. Having a brainfart in 3rd is OK, as long as it's not in 6th, 7th or 8th. Thanks Rob, I'll inform the stewards for future reference.

 

[Geonerd]

Here you go Jumkie. Elias got one and now Rossi has one...

OMFG!!



Do you have a higher resolution copy? I'd love to make that my desktop at work!

 

[Mental Anarchist]

Ren your video shows at least 1 marshal standing exactly where he stopped pushing Stoner on the race line for many seconds whilst 1 lone marshall continues to push. If they were so in fear for their safety why was he just standing there watching when he could have been helping.



I agree with Jumkie that the distraction that has been created by Stoner haters to deflect from the real issue that Rossi races with out care for his fellow competitors and in this case amateurishly took out Stoner and denied him of points that can not be replaced is astounding. The bias of the motorcycling media to perpetuate this deflection is a reflection of the bias that permeates the sport.

 

[eltoro]

Now that I've seen the race, it just seems to me that Rossi was overeager and made a bad move. I can understand his motivation because he was picking up positions steadily and wanted more. Stoner has a right to be upset, but like a lot of commentators have said, it's racing. All riders make boneheaded moves/mistakes at one time or another. There was more fuel poured on this incident because they have had instances in the past on track.



But I do disapprove of how the track marshalls handled things. Seriously since I've started watching MotoGP a couple of years ago, I regularly think these people are really under trained and/or at times lackadaisical about their jobs. A lasting image for me in regards to these people was when they dropped a dying Tomizawa while he was on a stretcher last year.

 

[Tekniqs]

concerning the marshals...jumkie is pointing out the discrepancy after the riders are mounted. the fact that rossi is down the road already has nothing to do with the marshals IN MY OPINION. i think it has more to do with the fact that rossi's bike was still running while stoner's was off. as you can see in the video, rossi pretty much pushed himself/rode out of the gravel while stoner was stuck. with that said, the marshals could have done a bit more work with helping stoner start the bike. the big thing people is missing is that rossi was far down the road because he was able to ride away while Stoner had to be pushed.



on a side note: LOL at the marshal guy that fell while trying to push stoner

 

[Jumkie]

concerning the marshals...jumkie is pointing out ...

Tek, see my take in the thread concerning the review of the marshaling (Pigeon's thread).



I'll add here, I wish Stoner would have kept quite about this part of the event, since its will certainly end in backlash. Making villains of volunteers at the track will not help his cause (though I will remind you, Simonchelli said the same thing). I think marshals should be banned from helping the riders get back onto the track, because this simply cannot be controlled to be done equitably (beside the first most important fact that its simply unnecessarily dangerous).



Again, this marshal thing is a very small incidental part of the whole crash event. Sadly, it will become the bigger part, and the who aggressive reckless move will be forgotten and shelved as a mere "racing incident". In fact, if you look at Arabi's thread of doggy moves, we cringe when we see them, but fact is most all of them were deemed as simple "racing incidents" regardless of how clearly some were criminal. I wish they would disband the race direction, as its only there in name.

 

[Tekniqs]

i read it, the whole LONG ... post haha! sure they are volunteers but it is still their responsibility to keep the racer's safe and do their jobs. i wouldn't volunteer at the local hospital and not take it seriously.



to me, rossi was a reckless as he alluded himself by saying he broke too deep and then tried to hold the line. as i previously said, he probably should have ran it deep and not worry about keeping the line. i compared it to his passes on jlo and dovi at sepang last year into turn 9. very similar situations except the weather and the outcomes.



PLEASE, let this not be the subject of discussion for the next month lol! estoril can't come soon enough

 

[renjith_varma]

Ren your video shows at least 1 marshal standing exactly where he stopped pushing Stoner on the race line for many seconds whilst 1 lone marshall continues to push. If they were so in fear for their safety why was he just standing there watching when he could have been helping.



I agree with Jumkie that the distraction that has been created by Stoner haters to deflect from the real issue that Rossi races with out care for his fellow competitors and in this case amateurishly took out Stoner and denied him of points that can not be replaced is astounding. The bias of the motorcycling media to perpetuate this deflection is a reflection of the bias that permeates the sport.

Please . I am not a Stoner hater (You wouldn't find a post by me questioning his speed, character or whatever...).

I don't think the marshal should push the bike through the tarmac. I find it extremely dangerous especially given the circumstances.



And Lets not sidestep into Rossi crashing and taking away Stoner. All I am arguing currently is marshals didn't favor Rossi. Can we agree on that? If you disagree, point out exactly where do you think Rossi is being favored.

 

[renjith_varma]

That's easy for you to say. You haven't devoted your entire life since the age of 12 and suffered multiple painful injuries

and lived in campers for most of your life and trained endlessly for one thing and one thing only - that being, winning

races with a dream of gaining a world championship.



That's like a man who spends his whole life sacrificing everything to raise a son and put him through school only to have

him knocked down and crippled by a drunken rickshaw driver and having someone say, Hey don't worry, you can always

have another kid.

That is a bit too much melodrama for me there.

For sure, it was a mistake from Rossi's part. A long list of current and ex MotoGp riders said it was a racing incident given the conditions

This includes Stoner himself, Lorenzo, Crutchlow, Gardner etc



If Stoner himself sees the incident as racing incident, I don't understand why you feel otherwise on behalf of him. Surely he knows more about him than you do

 

[renjith_varma]

Tek, see my take in the thread concerning the review of the marshaling (Pigeon's thread).



I'll add here, I wish Stoner would have kept quite about this part of the event, since its will certainly end in backlash. Making villains of volunteers at the track will not help his cause (though I will remind you, Simonchelli said the same thing). I think marshals should be banned from helping the riders get back onto the track, because this simply cannot be controlled to be done equitably (beside the first most important fact that its simply unnecessarily dangerous).



Again, this marshal thing is a very small incidental part of the whole crash event. Sadly, it will become the bigger part, and the who aggressive reckless move will be forgotten and shelved as a mere "racing incident". In fact, if you look at Arabi's thread of doggy moves, we cringe when we see them, but fact is most all of them were deemed as simple "racing incidents" regardless of how clearly some were criminal. I wish they would disband the race direction, as its only there in name.

I would say the reason the marshal incident is discussed now is mainly due to Stoner fans raising a stink on entire MotoGP about it. Many people claimed there were conspiracy theories, some even went on to claim Historical revisitionism, Rossi is an average rider without these helps etc.



So I think you cannot suddenly term it as 'minor' as it is becoming clearer that many people who claimed of favoritism by marshals are wrong. It was made 'major' by the same people who now want to make it 'minor'