Spies might be done

thedeal said:

We were talking about performance over the last two seasons.

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thedeal said:

We were talking about performance over the last two seasons.

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Jumkie said:

Dude, there is no ....... way to ignore it. Every story in MotoGP for the last 11 years has been all about Rossi. Winning or losing, antics, villains, shows, rules changes, equipment, politics, rivals, everything is about him. Watch the movie, faster, fastest, a decade in motogp, all documentaries of the sport are really in effect homage documentaries to Valentino. They don't talk about his whining, his exclusive treatment and equipment, his annoying clown celebrations, his pronounements that if the were for example taken with the same standard applied to Sete, Biaggi, and Stoner, they would echo worse. Do you remember what Valentino Rossi said after he crashed out in the race that Sete won? He said "Sete's win is not real." That sounds like the same .... that Casey got racked through the coals with after Laguna 08. That is the Rossi none of you can see through your rossie glasses. There is a reason why the term bopper exist. You and Rossi fans love it because that is what you live for, and frankly understand. But for people like me, who can see the blatant favortism, overwhelming influence, exclusive treatment by the league and the mindboggling double standards by his fans, the lack of humble spirit by the man himself (especially his winning years) and now all this going into hyper drive during the 2012 silly season, its really a bit much. The state of the sport has reached the fake wrestling level, except WWF is actually more interesting. But I wouldn't expect you to understand. I've actually done some reading on the worship mindset, its a bit like the political party one belongs to. You don't see the situation for its logic, that is why debates here are utterly useless. In fact, everything claimed about Rossi has been 100% debunked since 2011, YET, it has not changed one iota the minds of Rossi fans. Still they claim its all Ducati's fault for his fall from grace. Who the .... held a gun for him to go to a machine that only one man had ever ridden successfully? You want to know why you don't see it logically? You want to know why? Because you relate being a Rossi fan as a moral imperative. As I said in another post, Rossi could get an extra 200ccs, special made tires (which he has in the past), special rules that only apply to him, maybe even a head start in the race, etc. and the vast majority of his fans would accept it as legitimate, deserving, and normal. You simply see this situation with another set of values. I've come to realize this, and have accepted it. In the US we have two political parties. I marvel at Republicans who time and time again vote against their own self interest. You will never convince one they are wrong on logic. Logic is irrelevant!!! They vote the way they do because to them its a moral imperative and that trumps logic. Its exactly the same thing with Rossi. But in his case, not only have most of the fans drank the koolade, but also all of the league's leadership, the journalistic body, and the factories themselves (all of which: Honda, Yamaha, and Ducati he as thrown under the bus yet are falling over themselves to accept him back; each of which have made a public offer. In what world is this logical? None. Its a moral imperative as they see it. Rossi good. That's all they know.



MotoVR

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J4rn0 said:

I'm always curious about one thing when I hear this kind of conspiracy talk, and that is: WHY did "they" choose Rossi as a figurehead for their plans, and not, say, Elias or Biaggi or Melandri or KRJ? And who are "they"? Who are these misterious powers that manipulate racing? Honda, probably the most powerful force in MotoGP, at least after 2003 certainly had no interest in making Rossi win. They actually vowedto make him lose. Michelin were making the often mentioned SNS for Honda as well as for Yamaha factory teams, they could never privilege one over the other. So the whole theory in the end deflates when you look at it closely... It's like the theories that all politics in the world are manipulated by the US of by hte Jewish lobby or the Masons or Microsoft...

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Jumkie said:

"They"- Carmelo Ezpelata (mystery solved)



"Why?" Because VR is talented enough and personality is popular, sells the sport, people buy it, and people like you believe it. (motive solved)



"SNS"-common knowledge only offered exclusively to a few, Rossi the number one among them, with the caveat that even less got the "good stuff". That pretty much means if you don't have the good stuff you are automatically out of contention. What about this makes competition authentic? Like I said, if he was given an extra turbo boost, you would find it normal. (authenticity of the championship, debunked)



'Rivals', Honda are powerful but Carmelo still runs the sport. Both Biaggi and Sete, the only two who were able to contend with Rossi were both villainized in the sport, one even banished. Did they commit a crime for such treatment? Like Stoner, they were seen as the bad monster serving to increase the influence and favoritism of Rossi that still exists today. (no conspiracy, simple power of politics)

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J4rn0 said:

So Carmelo Ezpeleta manipulates MotoGP to make Rossi win... Oh yeah. Next...

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L8Braker said:

bird..that's still true today......so Stoner don't have the right passport...he said .... it, I'm going to find a way to win and did!

That is a bad ... picture...KRJR and McCoy could hang 'em out for sure!

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birdman said:

I think riders like Gary McCoy and Kenny Junior were a better match for Rossi given equal equipment. Biaggi, Capi and Sete no. Strange thing was the former never got good equipment despite the obvious talent, while the later parked their ..... on the best bikes for years and achieved relatively little. Dont believe me? McCoy won more races for Yamaha over the same period than Biaggi!



Now imagine SNS tires made specially for McCoy on a factory Honda or Yamaha.

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Keshav said:

Just re-watched the 2001 season and it was so clear back then that Biaggi et al were nowhere's near to being competitive with Rossi.

Abe sometimes had flashes of brilliance but the rest of them just didn't have Rossi's fire or concentration or sheer will to win. But Biaggi

throwing it away time and again was such a clown.

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hawkdriver said:

This is the last thing they have to hold onto now that everyone is on the same tires. The KRJR bit is nothing new, no .... the best riders get the best bikes, no .... Honda have had a big say in what the bikes are, no .... the factory bikes are better than sat bikes. The strange part is these are the same people who complain about Dorna while Dorna is actually bringing motogp back to what everyone wants. The same ones who think this years tires were made to hurt Casey and they forget who else likes the hard tires lmao. They need an excuse just in case Rossi does end up on a good bike.

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michaelm said:

No results have ever been contrived in motogp imo. No doubt that with lorenzo signed rossi is the next most likely to win races and contend for a championship, and I am not sure jorge could be all that confident of beating valentino in a straight fight even at this stage in valentino's career.



I do have a problem with a media company/venture capitalists being in total control of the sport though; of their very nature are not going to have a long view apart from anything else, and they have actually said they would sell out for the right offer. They could hardly be worse than the msma at devising rules I agree, but the msma shouldn't be in charge either. FIM should never have sold off the sport to the degree thay have, and should be in charge of the sport and setting the rules with the company with the media rights and the competitors ie the msma making representations to them.



I also agree that honda are the same honda as they have always been, what I don't see is why they were particularly evil last year requiring them to be curbed as seemed to be a common opinion, as opposed to any other years they have been dominant for instance 3 years in a row from 2001 to 2003, and 5 years in a row from 1994 to 1998 for that matter. I don't think jorge or yamaha need any help this year btw, and would be winning whether or not the weight or tyres had been changed.



Also btw, I thought your take on the stoner /bautista incident was very fair.

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Jumkie said:

Dude, there is no ....... way to ignore it. Every story in MotoGP for the last 11 years has been all about Rossi. Winning or losing, antics, villains, shows, rules changes, equipment, politics, rivals, everything is about him. Watch the movie, faster, fastest, a decade in motogp, all documentaries of the sport are really in effect homage documentaries to Valentino. They don't talk about his whining, his exclusive treatment and equipment, his annoying clown celebrations, his pronounements that if the were for example taken with the same standard applied to Sete, Biaggi, and Stoner, they would echo worse. Do you remember what Valentino Rossi said after he crashed out in the race that Sete won? He said "Sete's win is not real." That sounds like the same .... that Casey got racked through the coals with after Laguna 08. That is the Rossi none of you can see through your rossie glasses. There is a reason why the term bopper exist. You and Rossi fans love it because that is what you live for, and frankly understand. But for people like me, who can see the blatant favortism, overwhelming influence, exclusive treatment by the league and the mindboggling double standards by his fans, the lack of humble spirit by the man himself (especially his winning years) and now all this going into hyper drive during the 2012 silly season, its really a bit much. The state of the sport has reached the fake wrestling level, except WWF is actually more interesting. But I wouldn't expect you to understand. I've actually done some reading on the worship mindset, its a bit like the political party one belongs to. You don't see the situation for its logic, that is why debates here are utterly useless. In fact, everything claimed about Rossi has been 100% debunked since 2011, YET, it has not changed one iota the minds of Rossi fans. Still they claim its all Ducati's fault for his fall from grace. Who the .... held a gun for him to go to a machine that only one man had ever ridden successfully? You want to know why you don't see it logically? You want to know why? Because you relate being a Rossi fan as a moral imperative. As I said in another post, Rossi could get an extra 200ccs, special made tires (which he has in the past), special rules that only apply to him, maybe even a head start in the race, etc. and the vast majority of his fans would accept it as legitimate, deserving, and normal. You simply see this situation with another set of values. I've come to realize this, and have accepted it. In the US we have two political parties. I marvel at Republicans who time and time again vote against their own self interest. You will never convince one they are wrong on logic. Logic is irrelevant!!! They vote the way they do because to them its a moral imperative and that trumps logic. Its exactly the same thing with Rossi. But in his case, not only have most of the fans drank the koolade, but also all of the league's leadership, the journalistic body, and the factories themselves (all of which: Honda, Yamaha, and Ducati he as thrown under the bus yet are falling over themselves to accept him back; each of which have made a public offer. In what world is this logical? None. Its a moral imperative as they see it. Rossi good. That's all they know.



MotoVR

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J4rn0 said:

So Carmelo Ezpeleta manipulates MotoGP to make Rossi win... Oh yeah. Next...

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#22 said:

One that Stoner won a lot of races on

Edit: I know you'll come back with the 'different years' argument, but do you genuinely believe the Ducati GP11 would have only got one (wet) podium if Casey Stoner had been on it? And for the record I like both riders about the same, i'm not a bopper

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