Spies might be done

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Jumkie said:
Most here are saying Spies doesn't deserve a factory ride based on half a season of results (lets not factor in his bad luck results); but by the same logic are say Rossi does, how the hell does Rossi deserve a promotion to thee best or near thee best factory seat? As Dovi said, this is not a meritocracy. Otherwise, Cal who hasn't stood on the podium wouldn't have a 2 year factory offer, and Rossi would be left with no other options than to stay put at Ducati. If Spies seat is all about 'what have you done for me lately' then please explain the Rossi 'deserves' to be at Yamaha.



We all know/should know its complete ........; but very few can or are willing to admit it (some may not have the capacity). That Yamaha seat might even be subsidized by Dorna according to Noyes. Rossi gets Ben's seat and the sport loses what little if any credibility and legitimacy it has/had. Rossi 'chose' to go to Ducati, now the series is bailing him out. and falling on themselves to do it. And the "fans of the sport" are cheering this on. Tune in to WWF peeps.
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Spies has had his chance, and hasnt delivered.....when Spies got his 2 year deal on the factory team he was supposed to win or be on podium consistently, not occasionally in year 1, and NONE in the first half of year 2....His year 2 is to be winning and on podium regularly, so far he is not delivering.....time is up....



Rossi is Rossi....he is GOAT for a reason.....2 years of crap results are not a good reason to give him a better bike....and turn everything upside down....I for one think Rossi should stay and finish the job he started at Ducati....



Nicky losing his ride if rossi stays is like Capirossi losing his ride after years on the Duc, and winning on it.....not fair but lets be honest there comes a time when everyone has to move on....and this is Nicky's time...
 
Single Bike rule = 4 Factory Riders
<
 
Something has changed after Furusawa's holiday in Italy, now the cards say that Valentino could go back to Yamaha.

If that really happens, Lin Jarvis will be far from happy...! Memories of Motegi 2010 will haunt his dreams.



Barring that kind of return, that is comparable to an earthquake or tornado (and as such not covered by any insurance) I am certain that Spies would be happily kept in the factory team, in spite of all the cries about him "underperforming". They kept Colin for years, who certainly wasn't performing much better than Ben at his current worst.
 
stiefel said:
I would not want to have Rossi because I don't think the possible negatives in terms of PR (and the resentment I would still hold) outweigh the possible positives in terms of performance.
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Rossi is the ex-girlfriend than ran off with the milkman. Take him her back, give her ... a good spanking, and put her back to work, with double PR duties just for good measure.
 
xx CURVE xx said:
Umm 46 or so wins and 4 championships with the Yam? Yeah Id say he deserves it.. If not for him the yam would still suck like it did pre Rossi years.
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Gotta call out your yellow No. 46 shaped sunglass wearing ........ on this one dude... !!!

I agree that Rossi probably deserves the factory ride over Spies, not for his current (or even past) performance, for the profile and money he would bring to Yamaha - however not at the expense of taking money away from Duc (which could be catestrophic for the sport) and not on equal terms as Lorenzo.

Not sure that Rossi would be welcomed back by a lot of people at Yamaha, and whether he would be happy as a clear No. 2 status.

Clearly Rossi will be paid more at Ducati (can't see Yamaha agreeing to match the Euro 14.0 currently from Duc, unless Rossi brings a lot of sponsorship money), so wonder how much of his decision is based around money against potential bike performance. Can Ducati fix the bike against how much with Yamaha pay ??



Yamaha will know exactly how many more bikes they sold with Rossi on board, and how many more they will sell if he comes back.

Commercial decision for them regardless of his results.
 
stiefel said:
Two reasons. 1) if Rossi wins, it's Rossi. If Rossi looses, it's the material. Well, to many fans at least. 2) He threw Honda under the bus publicly after leaving, he did not show too much respect towards Yamaha upon leaving and the with Ducati it's a complete clusterfuck. In all three cases, he has managed to incite widespread outrage of his fans against these manufacturers. In the case of Ducati probably unintented. Edit: nevermind the political correctness if he does indeed take Marlboro with him, than he's ....... them over with full knowledge and intent.
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If Rossi wins, people will know it's because he's on a better bike, because in 18 months on the Duc he was ...... If he loses, he is past it. But he doesn't need to win, just be on the podium. That is enough to show that he has still got it and that it was the Ducati, not any lack of talent.



What he has done is given the lie to his statement that racing is 80% rider, 20% bike. If that's the case, he hasn't been able to do a damned thing with that 20%.



I firmly believe that he didn't lose one ounce of talent during winter 2010, that if he had a bike that worked when he arrived at Ducati, he would have been pushing for wins just like he did at Yamaha and Honda.



He is a superlative rider - at least as good as any in the field.



Given equal machinery, he is the equal of Lorenzo, Stoner, Pedrosa. On his day, he is the best. There are few other riders in the paddock that can lay claim to that.
 
Jumkie said:
Most here are saying Spies doesn't deserve a factory ride based on half a season of results (lets not factor in his bad luck results); but by the same logic are saying Rossi does, how the hell does Rossi deserve a promotion to thee best or near thee best factory seat?
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You are ignoring a couple of key facts:



Spies is on a race-winning bike - ostensibly the best bike in the field with a team the equal of any.



Rossi is on a bike that just doesn't work. He hasn't suddenly lost the ability to ride.



Spies is being beaten by satellite bikes of the same marque while his team-mate is winning races. That's the reason people are saying he doesn't deserve the ride - he isn't delivering with the best tools in the shed.



Whether Rossi deserves it or not is moot. If given the ride, you know he will make the best of it and be pushing for wins from the first race. Spies just isn't.
 
Has it?



I guess you want them to have identical numbers of points to be 'equal' - but that would be a bust - no-one would be the winner...



When they are all three or four fighting for the lead, when they are within a second, when the championship goes down to the wire, in my mind that makes them equal.



In 2010, the only year I can recall that Rossi was beaten by his team-mate, he missed a few races, but the races he did enter, he podiumed in ten of them, he won two, he came third in the championship by only 12 points.



The year before he won the championship, the year before that he won it as well.



Unlike Spies, who on identical equipment is nearly a minute behind... Rossi, when given identical equipment has only once failed to surpass his team-mate - and that due to a broken femur.



So, how is it that you have 'proven incorrect' that Rossi isn't the equal of the other three or four top riders of the moment?
 
I think Ben has had his chance and blown it.



At this stage, I reckon Dovi deserves the ride. He is hungry, fast, and still young enough. It must have hurt to have been dropped from Repsol last year. But he has shown great attitude and character to bounce back. For me, Rossi is a big question mark. Putting him back with Lorenzo could be more embarrassing than his trip to Ducati. Lorenzo has improved since those battles they were having 2 or 3 years back. Plus Lorenzo has become one with that bike. If Yam have a good bike again next year, I can't see anyone getting near Lorenzo. Rossi has aged and his confidence has been battered. This aint a Hollywood movie - Rossi isnt just gonna get back on his M1 and pick up where he left off. Things have changed. To salvage some dignity, Rossi should see his time out with Ducati and try to get some respectable results with them. Getting his arse whipped by Lorenzo every race on the same bike is not gonna help him more.



That's my 2 cents...
 
Zootalaws said:
Has it?



I guess you want them to have identical numbers of points to be 'equal' - but that would be a bust - no-one would be the winner...



When they are all three or four fighting for the lead, when they are within a second, when the championship goes down to the wire, in my mind that makes them equal.



In 2010, the only year I can recall that Rossi was beaten by his team-mate, he missed a few races, but the races he did enter, he podiumed in ten of them, he won two, he came third in the championship by only 12 points.



The year before he won the championship, the year before that he won it as well.



Unlike Spies, who on identical equipment is nearly a minute behind... Rossi, when given identical equipment has only once failed to surpass his team-mate - and that due to a broken femur.



So, how is it that you have 'proven incorrect' that Rossi isn't the equal of the other three or four top riders of the moment?
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Stoner ....... wins on Ducati ......... 23? 24?



Rossi ......... 0 ....... Zippo ......... nothing.
 
Different bikes - Stoner's last ride was on a GP10, Rossi's first ride was on a GP11.



Try comparing riders on the same machinery.



Or comparing riders in the same season:



2008 Rossi nine wins, Stoner six wins

2009 Rossi six wins, Stoner four wins

2010 Rossi two wins, Stoner three wins



It's obvious Rossi can't get to grips with the Ducati - that doesn't prove anything about his ability to race on equal machinery. The Duc is a dog.
 
Zootalaws said:
Different bikes.



Stoner's last ride was on a GP10, Rossi's first ride was on a GP11.



Try comparing riders on the same machinery.
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I have no doubt rossi wins races if on a yamaha next year, quite possibly contends for the championship.

Spies probably doesn't even win races. Not due to lack of talent, I think something fractured with the crashes and the not fixed bike, I don't think he really wants to be there any more .



I don't think there is much doubt that stoner was better at riding ducati 800 gp bikes than rossi. Doesn't translate to yamahas though imo.
 
Zootalaws said:
Different bikes - Stoner's last ride was on a GP10, Rossi's first ride was on a GP11.



Try comparing riders on the same machinery.



Or comparing riders in the same season:



2008 Rossi nine wins, Stoner six wins

2009 Rossi six wins, Stoner four wins

2010 Rossi two wins, Stoner three wins



It's obvious Rossi can't get to grips with the Ducati - that doesn't prove anything about his ability to race on equal machinery. The Duc is a dog.
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<
<
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You sir are as dopey as Rog.!
<
<
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And you are an arse.



Doesn't make your point any more valid - unless you think Rossi isn't capable of winning on an M1 or RC?
 
Dovi is spent. He had great machinery at repsol Honda but couldn't win races like Dani and Stoner. My thoughts are that once they show that they can't beat the best, they are done for.



Rossi is old but I can't see Lorenzo beating him at somewhere like Sepang when on equipment that suits him. He still has some wins in him. I can't say that about Dovi. Other than Pedrosa, Stoner, Rossi, Lorenzo - I can't see any of the others winning multiple races if given the chance. Marquez is the next one who could join that list. I don't see that Cal has it and Ben Spies has had his chance.
 

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