Silly season 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Austin @ Jul 24 2007, 04:31 AM) [snapback]81038[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I've thought RdP has been rather impressive this season when he's healthy. He pitches it away frequently but as has been said, you can teach a fast guy to quit crashing but you can't teach a slow guy to go faster. I hope he has a ride somewhere for 2008.


Quoted For the Truth.

He's a Stoner-esque guy, fast, but he needs to learn to stop binning it...and get a better bike.

The biek would probably be better if he stayed on more often. That is why I say toss him out and get someone new.

Randy De Puniet was meant to be Kawasaki's Dani Pedrosa or Chris Vermeulen. Seeing as Kawasaki match Suzuki more closely, I think his results in comparison to Vermeulens are about equal if you consider how much better De Puniet is in the dry. No doubt that in the wet Vermeulen takes it every time, but in dry weather recently De Puniet has had three or four top six finishes, whereas Vermeulen has had one, in Laguna. I don't think he's been such a big failure at Kawasaki. He's not a future world champion, but nor is he a failure like Colin Edwards. Like someone already said, you can teach a fast rider to stop crashing, but you can't teach a slow rider to be fast.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm certain that I read in MCN (last week? or week before...) that Dovizioso & De Angelis had said that they will be in MotoGP next year & have rides...???

Any truth in this...???

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsraeliRacer @ Jul 25 2007, 07:51 PM) [snapback]81246[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Randy De Puniet was meant to be Kawasaki's Dani Pedrosa or Chris Vermeulen. Seeing as Kawasaki match Suzuki more closely, I think his results in comparison to Vermeulens are about equal if you consider how much better De Puniet is in the dry. No doubt that in the wet Vermeulen takes it every time, but in dry weather recently De Puniet has had three or four top six finishes, whereas Vermeulen has had one, in Laguna. I don't think he's been such a big failure at Kawasaki. He's not a future world champion, but nor is he a failure like Colin Edwards. Like someone already said, you can teach a fast rider to stop crashing, but you can't teach a slow rider to be fast.


Sorry mate but that is just plain rubbish! How can you compare his results to Chris V ... better in the dry ... yeah right! Check results and standings this years and last .... case closed! Who cares whether it is wet or dry?! Everyone knows that wet racing is a class equaler!

There is an old saying "You are only as good as your last result"!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(krusty @ Jul 25 2007, 11:58 AM) [snapback]81261[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Sorry mate but that is just plain rubbish! How can you compare his results to Chris V ... better in the dry ... yeah right! Check results and standings this years and last .... case closed! Who cares whether it is wet or dry?! Everyone knows that wet racing is a class equaler!

There is an old saying "You are only as good as your last result"!


If you really think CV is better than DePuniet in the dry i would love to know why exactly?

And the rain is not really a class equaler, its just a different type of riding requiring different things from the rider. Its great to be good in the wet, but its dry more often so if the skills doesn't translate then it will to tough to mount a serious challange based on wet results.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Jul 25 2007, 06:59 PM) [snapback]81362[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
If you really think CV is better than DePuniet in the dry i would love to know why exactly?

And the rain is not really a class equaler, its just a different type of riding requiring different things from the rider. Its great to be good in the wet, but its dry more often so if the skills doesn't translate then it will to tough to mount a serious challange based on wet results.


I agree with you there Tom. The saying "rain is a class equalizer" is really stupid. It's an equalizer when it comes to power, nothing else, and the skill as you said is just different. That said, I do think rain masters have a skill than can be very valuable in dry, but only a few of them are able to bring it with them into dry racing.
An ex. road racer said it this way: If you go really, really fast on dry, it's almost like wet racing. You have to be soft and fast at the same time or you will loose it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>There is an old saying "You are only as good as your last result"!
I hope you realise how badly that statement will come back to haunt you

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsraeliRacer @ Jul 25 2007, 10:23 PM) [snapback]81416[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I hope you realise how badly that statement will come back to haunt you


Ah, but there are lots of people living by that saying. Maybe it's just cases of goldfish memory?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Desmosedici65 @ Jul 25 2007, 10:00 AM) [snapback]81247[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm certain that I read in MCN (last week? or week before...) that Dovizioso & De Angelis had said that they will be in MotoGP next year & have rides...???

Any truth in this...???

It's MCN, what do you expect? I'm sure there are many negotiations surrounding both riders but nothing has been confirmed yet. Not AFAIK anyways.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Jul 25 2007, 04:59 PM) [snapback]81362[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
And the rain is not really a class equaler, its just a different type of riding requiring different things from the rider. Its great to be good in the wet, but its dry more often so if the skills doesn't translate then it will to tough to mount a serious challange based on wet results.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Babelfish @ Jul 25 2007, 08:18 PM) [snapback]81415[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I agree with you there Tom. The saying "rain is a class equalizer" is really stupid. It's an equalizer when it comes to power, nothing else, and the skill as you said is just different. That said, I do think rain masters have a skill than can be very valuable in dry, but only a few of them are able to bring it with them into dry racing.
An ex. road racer said it this way: If you go really, really fast on dry, it's almost like wet racing. You have to be soft and fast at the same time or you will loose it.

I think the rain really is the great equalizer. Suddenly a bike that doesn't stand a chance because of how down on power it is, is fighting for top places. Obviously you still need a good package but the rain separates the men from the boys, and if you can go in the wet then there is no reason you can't go in the dry other than limiting factors of your package.

Gibernau was always a wet weather specialist and once he was transplanted to a Honda in 2003 he became an instant threat. Same sort of ideology could apply to CV or Westy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Jul 26 2007, 02:59 AM) [snapback]81362[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
If you really think CV is better than DePuniet in the dry i would love to know why exactly?

And the rain is not really a class equaler, its just a different type of riding requiring different things from the rider. Its great to be good in the wet, but its dry more often so if the skills doesn't translate then it will to tough to mount a serious challange based on wet results.


2006 stats

15 races - CV finished in front of RdP 11 times. RdP in front of CV 2 times. 2 races they both DNF'd.

2007

11 races - CV has finished in front 7 times. RdP in front of CV 3 times

Rain does equal the field! Power becomes less of an issue, tyres might be a bigger issue (but they have been in the dry this year as well), but talent shines through!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsraeliRacer @ Jul 26 2007, 06:23 AM) [snapback]81416[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I hope you realise how badly that statement will come back to haunt you


Yeah, was a spur of the moment thing! Get carried away sometimes!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Austin @ Jul 25 2007, 11:40 PM) [snapback]81441[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
It's MCN, what do you expect? I'm sure there are many negotiations surrounding both riders but nothing has been confirmed yet. Not AFAIK anyways.
I think the rain really is the great equalizer. Suddenly a bike that doesn't stand a chance because of how down on power it is, is fighting for top places. Obviously you still need a good package but the rain separates the men from the boys, and if you can go in the wet then there is no reason you can't go in the dry other than limiting factors of your package.

Yes, you need a very good chassi to be fast in rain.
But it doesn't separate men fom boys. That's what we have places like the cork screw and the > 200kph turns for, in dry. Rain is for those with best feel for the bike and the best reflexes.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>
Gibernau was always a wet weather specialist and once he was transplanted to a Honda in 2003 he became an instant threat. Same sort of ideology could apply to CV or Westy.

West and Vermulen would top the podium with, say, Rossi's equipment?
Why are the both quite regulary beaten by their team mates in dry?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Babelfish @ Jul 26 2007, 07:48 AM) [snapback]81443[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Yes, you need a very good chassi to be fast in rain.
But it doesn't separate men fom boys. That's what we have places like the cork screw and the > 200kph turns for, in dry. Rain is for those with best feel for the bike and the best reflexes.

West and Vermulen would top the podium with, say, Rossi's equipment?
Why are the both quite regulary beaten by their team mates in dry?


West 4 races - 2 times he has finished in front of RdP ... RdP has had 22 more races then Westy in MotoGP! Regularly beaten ... don't think so!

Hopper has beaten Chris V 7-4 races this year ... and the reason ... Chris V is a crap qualifier and he would be the first to admit it! His race pace has been as good in my opinion!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(krusty @ Jul 25 2007, 11:55 PM) [snapback]81444[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
West 4 races - 2 times he has finished in front of RdP ... RdP has had 22 more races then Westy in MotoGP! Regularly beaten ... don't think so!

Hopper has beaten Chris V 7-4 races this year ... and the reason ... Chris V is a crap qualifier and he would be the first to admit it! His race pace has been as good in my opinion!

And those results include wet races, so basically we agree, there is no distinct performance difference with advantage to West and Vermulen compared to De Puniet and Hopper, still Vermulen and West should turn into instant chmpionship material if they jumped on Rossi's bike? Me think not.

Rain is the great equaliser. A great example I saw, was the Scottish Superprix at Knockhill in 1993.

The field included Jamie Whitham on his works YZF 750, Steve Hislop on an RVF 750, Brian Morrison on (I think) a work ZXR and Niall MacKenzie on his RoC YZR, the same one he came 3rd at Donny on that year.

The race was awesome. watching Mackenzie, who was on top of his game at the time, fight the YZR on a sodden Knockhill, ( a very tight track for those of you unlucky enough not to be Scottish) was amazing. And it was local hero, Sandy Christie who led most of the race on an FZR1000 EXUP!

Where the 500 would have dissapeared in the dry, it was spinning up with it's front wheel in the air out of the hairpin, scary stuff! It was about 2 laps fae the end that Niall got to the front and started to clear off.

Amazing, and if ever saw MacKenzie on top of his game at Knockhill, he was pretty much unbeatable, so watching how hard he had to fight to take the win was something else.

The rain showed that the guy with the slower bike, and the track knowledge could almost do the unthinkable, beat the fastest guys in the UK at the time at their own game.

The only person to win in the dry on the Cagiva 500 was Lil John, not because he was a wet weather specialist, but because when the rain came out, the Cagiva's lack of speed/power was negated by the others inability to use the power they had.

Anyhoo, what I'm saying in a long way, is that winning in the wet shows bike control to an extreme level, and CV has shown that even though the Suzuki isnt the bike that the Yam, Honda or Duc is. He can win races on it.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Babelfish @ Jul 26 2007, 07:48 AM) [snapback]81443[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Yes, you need a very good chassi to be fast in rain.
But it doesn't separate men fom boys. That's what we have places like the cork screw and the > 200kph turns for, in dry. Rain is for those with best feel for the bike and the best reflexes.

West and Vermulen would top the podium with, say, Rossi's equipment?
Why are the both quite regulary beaten by their team mates in dry?

Sorry but I don't understand your point!
In terms of experience, they are miles behind Rossi, and let's face it, Rossi is a legend ... probably the best there has ever been! It's doubtful that the Suzuki or Kawasaki is the bike the Yamaha is ... would being on the yamaha improve their results ... yes, probably!
Chris has the opprtunity in 2008 to own the development of the bike. From what I have read he is technically savvy. I expect he will improve again next year!
As for Westy ... I just hope he gets the chance next year to improve!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(basspete @ Jul 25 2007, 10:54 PM) [snapback]81453[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Rain is the great equaliser. A great example I saw, was the Scottish Superprix at Knockhill in 1993.

The field included Jamie Whitham on his works YZF 750, Steve Hislop on an RVF 750, Brian Morrison on (I think) a work ZXR and Niall MacKenzie on his RoC YZR, the same one he came 3rd at Donny on that year.

The race was awesome. watching Mackenzie, who was on top of his game at the time, fight the YZR on a sodden Knockhill, ( a very tight track for those of you unlucky enough not to be Scottish) was amazing. And it was local hero, Sandy Christie who led most of the race on an FZR1000 EXUP!

Where the 500 would have dissapeared in the dry, it was spinning up with it's front wheel in the air out of the hairpin, scary stuff! It was about 2 laps fae the end that Niall got to the front and started to clear off.

Amazing, and if ever saw MacKenzie on top of his game at Knockhill, he was pretty much unbeatable, so watching how hard he had to fight to take the win was something else.

The rain showed that the guy with the slower bike, and the track knowledge could almost do the unthinkable, beat the fastest guys in the UK at the time at their own game.

The only person to win in the dry on the Cagiva 500 was Lil John, not because he was a wet weather specialist, but because when the rain came out, the Cagiva's lack of speed/power was negated by the others inability to use the power they had.

Anyhoo, what I'm saying in a long way, is that winning in the wet shows bike control to an extreme level, and CV has shown that even though the Suzuki isnt the bike that the Yam, Honda or Duc is. He can win races on it.

Pete

Thank you Pete for illustrating my point for me. And about the 'unlucky enough not to be Scottish' remark, I've only been once and it was Edinburgh but it was an amazing city. Wish I was back.

Read this in the afternoon paper on the train this afternoon. Chris Vee doing an interview here after returning to Queensland following the USGP;

"The wet is a leveller for bike equipment so if you're lacking in power or some area it evens it out, being in wet conditions" he said "but it is also more difficult - it's more treacherous, easier to make mistakes. The only thing I can put it down to is that I grew up on dirt bikes and I have a good feeling for a bike sliding underneath me and how to control it".

What a timely interview ... thanks Chris ... backs up a few peoples comments here!

When its wet a rider still needs a bike with a smooth power delivery, tyres which give good feel and a chassis setup which allows the rider find the traction to get the power down well. Rain maybe an equalizer on outright power and riders abilities tend to vary more when its wet, but it doesn't mean that suddenly the equipment means nothing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Austin @ Jul 25 2007, 10:40 PM) [snapback]81441[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
the rain separates the men from the boys, and if you can go in the wet then there is no reason you can't go in the dry other than limiting factors of your package.


Rubbish, riders are often rain specialists. That is to say they are better (compared to the competition) when it rains than when it is dry. Its s different way of riding with a different approach and different demands, some do it better than others.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Jul 26 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]81513[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
When its wet a rider still needs a bike with a smooth power delivery, tyres which give good feel and a chassis setup which allows the rider find the traction to get the power down well. Rain maybe an equalizer on outright power and riders abilities tend to vary more when its wet, but it doesn't mean that suddenly the equipment means nothing.
Rubbish, riders are often rain specialists. That is to say they are better (compared to the competition) when it rains than when it is dry. Its s different way of riding with a different approach and different demands, some do it better than others.


The thing you most need when it is wet is skill and ability!!!!