Sepang....

Suzuki just signed up with Rizla for 2 more years so that is very positive.

And the Suzuki V4 lump is just fine. Only Yamaha run an I4 and Rossi was screaming for a V4 until Yamaha kicked the power up a notch. What I and others wonder is that the extra tweak was done at the expense of engine life and that it will be Yamaha that suffers power loss this year. They are a smart company with lots of F1 experience so I'm sure they have been working to have both reliability and power. Rossi will just not stand for less and why should he?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yello13 @ Feb 1 2010, 12:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Bless your soul. If I hear the phrases 'the aliens' 'four aliens', 'extraterrestres' or any other lame tag phrase one more time then I'll punch a wall.

Basic four sounds much less cheesy. Lets agree on calling them something besides the aliens from now on. The Basic Four, Big Four, The Four Horsemen, pretty much anything else please. Okay, I had to let that out.

As for the topic at hand, Bautista is an interesting rider. He was never able to beat pedrosa, lorenzo, and co when they were all in 250s, so why should we expect anything out of him now? But then you realize that stoner never came out on top of the 250s championship against those guys either. Thats the beauty of GP. If suzuki get it just right, and it gels with Bautista, things could get interesting. Most likely not but stranger things have happened.

Although he never raced pedrosa in 250s, I simply meant to use him and lorenzo as a metaphor for the 250cc champions.
Thanks Yello13 I feel the same about them as well. I just couldn't bring myself to write anything else.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mumu37 @ Feb 1 2010, 09:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Would Suzuki finally abandon their 'lacking' V4 and switch to I4 when 1000's come out and play? Didn't they have the reputation back in the 990's as having a great chassis with 'anemic' lump?
What a strange standpoint. Why should they ditch the V4?
The ONLY reason Yamaha kept it despite rossi's request was the resemblance to their street bikes.
In fact I think you will find that V engines in general are far more successful over the year than inlines in almost any motor racing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 2 2010, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What a strange standpoint. Why should they ditch the V4?
The ONLY reason Yamaha kept it despite rossi's request was the resemblance to their street bikes.
In fact I think you will find that V engines in general are far more successful over the year than inlines in almost any motor racing.

Perhaps they chose an I-4 at the outset b/c they wanted production relevance, but Burgess has said that the cross-plane I-4 has numerous positive qualities. Most importantly, the engine is very short which allows for a longer swingarm and more dynamic chassis tuning. The compact size also allows the team to run more wheelbase configurations without upsetting the handling.

Remember what happened when Honda tried to improve mass centralization by smashing all of the engine parts together on the Evo bike? Overheating (mainly the clutch). What was Yamaha's alleged problem in 2007 and 2008? Heat.

The I-4s apparently don't want for power. The problem is keeping the operating temperatures down when all of the cylinders are contained in one bank and spinning at 18,000 rpm in ultra lean mode.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Feb 2 2010, 07:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Perhaps they chose an I-4 at the outset b/c they wanted production relevance, but Burgess has said that the cross-plane I-4 has numerous positive qualities. Most importantly, the engine is very short which allows for a longer swingarm and more dynamic chassis tuning. The compact size also allows the team to run more wheelbase configurations without upsetting the handling.

Remember what happened when Honda tried to improve mass centralization by smashing all of the engine parts together on the Evo bike? Overheating (mainly the clutch). What was Yamaha's alleged problem in 2007 and 2008? Heat.

The I-4s apparently don't want for power. The problem is keeping the operating temperatures down when all of the cylinders are contained in one bank and spinning at 18,000 rpm in ultra lean mode.
No arguments there lex, crossplane have advantages compared to traditional IL and IL engines are shorter compared to V engines, still they have disadvantages, some of which you point out.
Another is the with, and finally they have a balance issue. Maybe not as relevant in racing but now it might be an issue as the reliability is so important.

It is going to be interesting to see how the guys go that come up from the 250's. i tend to think they are going to be a few years ahead of the future moto2 graduates.

I was talking to a mate of mine and Casey 2 weeks ago about the change to Moto2, Casey did not think it was a good move at all. Basically he said the reason why 250 riders tend to accel in motoGP is because the cornering speeds on a 250 are much higher than a motoGP bike. You have to be so much more precise to get a lap time, then you lob into motoGP and there is a lot more margin for lap time in relation to corner speed, throttle application etc... its like the goal posts are wider. Of course the last few percent is hard to get but you get the idea.

I suppose the converse is true why superbike riders tend not to perform in motoGP, they come from a more point and squirt style etc... so the fear is that the riders from moto2 will not have that precision that the current 250 class demands.

Expect the GP10 to be a good bike. From all accounts the new firing order is going to make it a lot more drivable but still produce a good lap time.

Perhaps then the progression will be 125, MotoGP, Moto2.

You might not be far off in that some riders may skip moto2. Or team bosses in motoGP try to identify talent in the 125cc class to inherit a rider that rides with that 2 stroke style.

Everything you said would be true IF MotoGP was staying with the 800cc formula. But since the formula changes to 1000cc in '11 or '12 that argument becomes redundant. Turns out Moto2 will be the perfect training/feeder series for the less precise and more throttle-happy litre bikes!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (is200 @ Feb 4 2010, 06:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It is going to be interesting to see how the guys go that come up from the 250's. i tend to think they are going to be a few years ahead of the future moto2 graduates.

I was talking to a mate of mine and Casey 2 weeks ago about the change to Moto2, Casey did not think it was a good move at all. Basically he said the reason why 250 riders tend to accel in motoGP is because the cornering speeds on a 250 are much higher than a motoGP bike. You have to be so much more precise to get a lap time, then you lob into motoGP and there is a lot more margin for lap time in relation to corner speed, throttle application etc... its like the goal posts are wider. Of course the last few percent is hard to get but you get the idea.

I suppose the converse is true why superbike riders tend not to perform in motoGP, they come from a more point and squirt style etc... so the fear is that the riders from moto2 will not have that precision that the current 250 class demands.

Expect the GP10 to be a good bike. From all accounts the new firing order is going to make it a lot more drivable but still produce a good lap time.

I dont know MickD, I think its more to do with the precision required to be fast in the category. Ie to be good in 250cc you have to know the ins and outs of corner speed, entry speed, momentum etc... then go to 800cc and its so much easier. You dont have to be as precises, you can wash of speed without as great a penalty etc...

So i would tend to think that the move to 1000cc would maintain this, guys that are quick by pointing and squirting will still be so, but a rider who has the ability/experience with more precise corner entry, momentum etc... will then still have the ability to open the taps aggressively off the corner.

Dont get me wrong i think that moto2 has a lot more relevance to the companies and im suprised its taken so long for the change over. But that racing in the 250's is brilliant, and I just thought id share a current riders opinions on its effects of riders coming through the ranks....ie expect more guys from WSB to be able to make the change over in the coming years.