Sepang Test (Jan 31st - Feb 2nd 2012)

MotoGP Forum

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
BarryMachine said:
Then how do you explain that they tried the static weight shift ( wit ballast and position change ) at Valencia at the end of last year, and it failed?



And how would a static weight change cause the vibration at the front?
Click to expand...

Barry, I don't think that is a good way to test for balance, a motorcycle is not a static weight and it doesn't have a fixed body. There are to many variables about that test to take anything from. The Duc used to be a longer bike. What moves faster? a short lever or a long lever. We all know the longer the lever the more force you will have, the Duc's long wheel base is bad for weight transfer.

It will be slower to transfer the weight to the front and because it's slower the force applied to the tire will come later than your competition and more of that force will be wasted to transfer the weight over the longer distance. This is probably why they went to the CF swingarm, and why they initially thought the heavier Alu sub frame was better than the CF, more weight in front but like they said the bike in it's old form didn't have enough adjustment built in to properly test the things they wanted to test. If you can only make the ... end of the bike so light, you eventually get to a point were that lever needs to be shortened.
 
xx CURVE xx said:
Why?
<
... you dont like pretty blue smoke??
<




honestly id LOVE to see Kaw, Suzuk, Aprilia, KTM, BMW, Bimota, _____, hot rod the .... out of their best 1000cc engine and put it on the grid.
Click to expand...





That (engines already blew up during the test) and you absolutely know they (Kawak) are going to be dead ....... last on the grid in whatever form.
 
Pigeon said:
Former world champion Jorge Lorenzo wants the top speed of the sport's new bikes to be cut by MotoGP organisers to protect riders' safety.



The 1,000cc bikes generally prompted a warm reception following testing at Malaysia's Sepang circuit, where Marco Simoncelli died in October.



But Lorenzo, the 2010 world champion with Yamaha, admitted: "I am not happy with the top speed.



"We need to reduce it if we want to make it in the safe category."





----------------------------



Dani Pedrosa has described Honda's new RCV 213V as "the most physically demanding" MotoGP bike he has ridden.

"This bike is physically more demanding [than the 800], you feel the power in the acceleration, the speed under hard braking and also the extra weight, and three days of testing here in Malaysia is very tiring," Pedrosa said.





----------------------------



Can we scap this motogp .... and have mini moto's plz



2013..WSBK.BSB Man'd up..
Click to expand...

So Jorge loves the power



“This bike is also more fun because it has more torque and you don't need to fight with a lazy engine on the exit of slow corners. Now you have enough power to enjoy it more.



But doesnt like the speed. . Sometimes i wonder if these clowns remeber from hour to hour what they say to different reporters.. If you love the power and not the speed Jorge, change your ....... gearing
<
 
Mr Squiggle said:
And as far as aligning myself with Michael goes you AGAIN missed the point of my tongue in cheek post which was a direct reference to a previous bit of banter with michael.......
Click to expand...



Squig, have you forgotten that Jumkie will tell you what you mean, both the literal and the underlying intent, of everything you think, write and say. You can't possibly know these things yourself because after all you are not American. It is like when Osama said "we fly plains into your building because you occupy our holy lands" and the Americans say "no you don't, you fly plains into our builds because of our freedom". You could almost say Jumkie has a God complex but in reality it is just an American Complex.
 
Mental Anarchist said:
Squig, have you forgotten that Jumkie will tell you what you mean, both the literal and the underlying intent, of everything you think, write and say. You can't possibly know these things yourself because after all you are not American. It is like when Osama said "we fly plains into your building because you occupy our holy lands" and the Americans say "no you don't, you fly plains into our builds because of our freedom". You could almost say Jumkie has a God complex but in reality it is just an American Complex.
Click to expand...





What do you call the chip on your shoulder?
 
Mr Squiggle said:
All hail King Jumkie....leader of the Neo-bops
<












And as far as aligning myself with Michael goes you AGAIN missed the point of my tongue in cheek post which was a direct reference to a previous bit of banter with michael.......









to which my response was







But I guess you are just pissed again and having another brain fart.....nice that you are thinking of me though
<
Click to expand...



My bad. U got me.
 
Mental Anarchist said:
Squig, have you forgotten that Jumkie will tell you what you mean, both the literal and the underlying intent, of everything you think, write and say. You can't possibly know these things yourself because after all you are not American. It is like when Osama said "we fly plains into your building because you occupy our holy lands" and the Americans say "no you don't, you fly plains into our builds because of our freedom". You could almost say Jumkie has a God complex but in reality it is just an American Complex.
Click to expand...



"American Complex"



U have lost ur mind. Seeing u lose it has been most entertaining. I gave u a bit of rope and all u did was hang urself.



"American Complex"



Brilliant.
 
The chatter that the honda is suffering from was there from the first time the bike was tested and it has been reduced according to Casey himself, he also said it was further reduced during these test. Honda isn't already on chassis #3 because this was some kind of surprise. No one gets the chassis perfect on the first time out and as we've seen these GP bikes are constantly getting some kind of update in the chassis, swingarm and suspension. If you read his coments on GPone, he doesn't blame the tires for the chatter, instead he thinks it's from the extra weight and he is the one there looking at the data, riding the bike, and talking to the engineers.



You can't just throw 8 extra lbs anywhere you want on a bike that was designed to be 337lbs, it takes time for the engineers to figure these things out just like it takes time for the riders to find their best position on the bike. The bike was designed before the rules were finished, some of you have to remeber this when all we knew was 1000cc with a resticted cylinder bore. Was it because of Ducati, yes it was, but the MSMA agreed to it just like they agreed on the six engine limit and the fuel regs. They are probably all happy about the extra testing allowed with the way the rules have slowly come about.

Mr Ippolito said: “The main changes we have decided on are new rules for the MotoGP class. We will have four cylinder engines, 4-stroke of course, with a 1000cc maximum, and the bore of the cylinders will be 81mm. This base will give all the manufacturers the opportunity to start work. At the beginning of next year we will produce the new rules in a more complete format, but that is the basis; 2012 will be the year of a new era of MotoGP.”
Click to expand...
 
hawkdriver said:
Barry, I don't think that is a good way to test for balance, a motorcycle is not a static weight and it doesn't have a fixed body. There are to many variables about that test to take anything from. The Duc used to be a longer bike. What moves faster? a short lever or a long lever. We all know the longer the lever the more force you will have, the Duc's long wheel base is bad for weight transfer.

It will be slower to transfer the weight to the front and because it's slower the force applied to the tire will come later than your competition and more of that force will be wasted to transfer the weight over the longer distance. This is probably why they went to the CF swingarm, and why they initially thought the heavier Alu sub frame was better than the CF, more weight in front but like they said the bike in it's old form didn't have enough adjustment built in to properly test the things they wanted to test. If you can only make the ... end of the bike so light, you eventually get to a point were that lever needs to be shortened.
Click to expand...



Again, bike lengths, static mass distributions, Al and CF monocoque frame and twin spar, all tested and failed. So its useless going on about them.



The only think left was to think dynamic and look at what that Ducati idiosyncratic engine does/causes. This they have done and from that one test both riders are saying, so far, that it may be better.
 
BarryMachine said:
Again, bike lengths, static mass distributions, Al and CF monocoque frame and twin spar, all tested and failed. So its useless going on about them.



The only think left was to think dynamic and look at what that Ducati idiosyncratic engine does/causes. This they have done and from that one test both riders are saying, so far, that it may be better.
Click to expand...

The bike didn't have a large range of adjustments and couldn't because of the engine being a stressed frame member, further more the bike is much shorter than it was and the engine has clearly been moved forward in the frame, there is no idiosyncratic anything going on with any 90 degree engine, sorry please try to prove that any 90 degree engine is unbalanced, I'll wait for you and will call you on it if show back up with any diesel engine BS that is designed to work out of sync.

1 CF bike-didn't work

2 Alu sub frame didn't work

3 Alu chassis did work

What did they all have in common? The same exact demensions and geomotry, Presi even said the changes were to confirm that it wasn't a matierials problem, so they changed the design after all that was ruled out. The engine was rotated back and moved forward to get more weight on the front, otherwise they would have just rotated the engine and left the bike as a strecthed POS. Guess who is having chatter because of an added static 8lbs to his bike, your boy Casey, he blew a hole in your theory but your theory was already shot because Duc was using a 90 degree engine. Go read what he has to say at GPone.
 
hawkdriver said:
1 CF bike-didn't work in either lengths test

2 Alu sub frame didn't work ditto

3 Alu chassis did work Wrong the Al. twins Spar on its own with the L engine was a resounding fail and left them scratching their heads.
Click to expand...



They have stuck to the Al. twin Spar though, for the time being, as it does allow them to tilt the engine back, with minimal extra work, as they have done.
 
hawkdriver said:
The chatter that the honda is suffering from was there from the first time the bike was tested and it has been reduced according to Casey himself, he also said it was further reduced during these test. Honda isn't already on chassis #3 because this was some kind of surprise. No one gets the chassis perfect on the first time out and as we've seen these GP bikes are constantly getting some kind of update in the chassis, swingarm and suspension. If you read his coments on GPone, he doesn't blame the tires for the chatter, instead he thinks it's from the extra weight and he is the one there looking at the data, riding the bike, and talking to the engineers.



You can't just throw 8 extra lbs anywhere you want on a bike that was designed to be 337lbs, it takes time for the engineers to figure these things out just like it takes time for the riders to find their best position on the bike. The bike was designed before the rules were finished, some of you have to remeber this when all we knew was 1000cc with a resticted cylinder bore. Was it because of Ducati, yes it was, but the MSMA agreed to it just like they agreed on the six engine limit and the fuel regs. They are probably all happy about the extra testing allowed with the way the rules have slowly come about.
Click to expand...

Huh???

“The chatter was similar to yesterday. When we improved it we found big disadvantages in other area. It's an issue we had last year and it's increased with these new tyres,” said Stoner.



“We're still chasing [a solution] but we're going pretty fast even without having this area dialled in. So it's a positive and a negative.



Michaelm thinks things got worse for Ducati when they went twin pulse, or big bang, rather than screamer. Its still 90 degree but the firing intervals were changed, yes/no?



Assuming its a twin pulse, I dont know which two cylinders would fire together. If its in pairs, twin front then twin rear, then Barry's theory makes sense to me. If they fire some other way, on opposite sides of the V, then it shouldnt matter and maybe your right. Barbera did say he thinks just the alu frame still in the old configuration from Valencia which he was riding is a big improvement and his Sepang time was good, so buggered if I know whats going on.
 
BarryMachine said:
They have stuck to the Al. twin Spar though, for the time being, as it does allow them to tilt the engine back, with minimal extra work, as they have done.
Click to expand...

Barry, are you ignoring the fact that the bike couldn't be shortened while the engine was in the L configuration?

My #3 is a typo as you can see that I said they all had the same geometry, it should have said didn't work just like 1 and 2.

If the bike was experiencing chatter/vibrations while braking due to the engine it further disproves your theory because it happened during braking, any force an engine produces is going to be proportional to the revs, what you are suggesting is a force that is inversely proportional because we know the bike isn't wide open at 16k plus rpm while the brakes are being applied. The bikes hardly spend any time topped out and engine braking is eliminated on purpose. You do know the formula for force

What you are suggesting completely defies physics F = ma, if the engine is doing something weird at 2krpm it's only going to get worst the faster the engine spins.
 
birdman said:
Huh???

“The chatter was similar to yesterday. When we improved it we found big disadvantages in other area. It's an issue we had last year and it's increased with these new tyres,” said Stoner.



“We're still chasing [a solution] but we're going pretty fast even without having this area dialled in. So it's a positive and a negative.



Michaelm thinks things got worse for Ducati when they went twin pulse, or big bang, rather than screamer. Its still 90 degree but the firing intervals were changed, yes/no?



Assuming its a twin pulse, I dont know which two cylinders would fire together. If its in pairs, twin front then twin rear, then Barry's theory makes sense to me. If they fire some other way, on opposite sides of the V, then it shouldnt matter and maybe your right. Barbera did say he thinks just the new frame still in the old configuration from Valencia which he was riding is a big improvement and his Sepang time was good, so buggered if I know whats going on.
Click to expand...

The firing order effects traction of the rear wheel, not the front wheel, in motogp the bikes use a slipper clutch and electronics to completely eliminate engine braking so the bike does not become unsettled. The engine intake is slightly opened during braking so the engine can't interfere with the rear wheels speed making the bike more like a 2 stroke.

Logical that Casey Stoner will be satisfied " in general was a good test, unfortunately we only shot two days instead of three, but thanks to the favorable weather conditions, we managed to do a great job. Having missed the first day there penalized too, we managed to complete all the planned program . " Physically, he has still not recovered yet 100% fit, but his Honda gave him positive feedback, although the problem of chattering is not yet completely solved. " We have made ​​progress in reducing it a bit ' - he explains - we were able to test some settings of the shock that we had not had the opportunity to try before . " And an idea of what the cause of this problem if Stoner is made: " I think it is due to the increase in weight from 153 to 157 Kg, imposed by the new regulation this year, and it is clear that someone instead has benefited . "



Read more: http://www.gpone.com...l#ixzz1lPCwiK6t
Click to expand...

Like we all know, the Honda was already riding around before the rules were completed and they are on chassis #3 to correct for the added weight. , Casey only used the new tires on the last day, coincidentally the same day he destroyed the track record. You can look in this thread and see that he was using the old spec tires on the first day and still had chatter. So they had chatter with both new and old tires.
 
Mental Anarchist said:
Squig, have you forgotten that Jumkie will tell you what you mean, both the literal and the underlying intent, of everything you think, write and say. You can't possibly know these things yourself because after all you are not American. It is like when Osama said "we fly plains into your building because you occupy our holy lands" and the Americans say "no you don't, you fly plains into our builds because of our freedom". You could almost say Jumkie has a God complex but in reality it is just an American Complex.
Click to expand...



wait... WAIT!



I thought jumkie was a tequila swigging wet back?
<
 
BarryMachine said:
They have stuck to the Al. twin Spar though, for the time being, as it does allow them to tilt the engine back, with minimal extra work, as they have done.
Click to expand...



Bazz whats made the most differance, tilting back the engine.. or the new Bridgestones?

I reckon both would have made a differance but the tyres would have played a big part..
 
hawkdriver said:
Barry, are you ignoring the fact that the bike couldn't be shortened while the engine was in the L configuration?

My #3 is a typo as you can see that I said they all had the same geometry, it should have said didn't work just like 1 and 2.

If the bike was experiencing chatter/vibrations while braking due to the engine it further disproves your theory because it happened during braking, any force an engine produces is going to be proportional to the revs, what you are suggesting is a force that is inversely proportional because we know the bike isn't wide open at 16k plus rpm while the brakes are being applied. The bikes hardly spend any time topped out and engine braking is eliminated on purpose. You do know the formula for force

What you are suggesting completely defies physics F = ma, if the engine is doing something weird at 2krpm it's only going to get worst the faster the engine spins.
Click to expand...



Vibrational forces or resonant forces are not necessarily linear. Forget the linear relationship thing and the inversely prop. we are taking a vibrational force that pulses.



Forget F=ma ...... We are talking:



for vsg we are talking:



15c1174e0cc9c6efec10d566367fc862.png




feel free to apply it
<
<
, or learn what it means a least.



And irrespective of the rev's the force at the front tyre only has to exceed ( by even the most minimal amount when on the edge of traction ) that force needed for traction. VSG would cause the normal force at the tyre to increase and decrease in a cyclic manner. ie. a vibration as it gripped/let go/gripped/let go etc. etc. etc. VSG would take have the effect of making the bike want to go straight when the rider is trying to go round a corner, in short the front is lost.



Ducati did shorten the bike with a CF head frame. The Al. twin spar was not done to change this as they would make the bike too unstable. What makes you think it is actually shorter? In any case this would not explain why "the ....... vibration" is gone.



I think you need to do a few years of physics or mechanics hawk, I'm not sure you are talking anywhere near the metalanguage required.
 

Similar threads

J
Why test in Sepang?
Replies
16
Views
745
Havey
H
AnnoyingTwit
Predictions for 2025
2
Replies
36
Views
946
mikesbytes
mikesbytes
M
MotoGP For Sale?
Replies
9
Views
1K
DavidSim
D
#22
David Emmet: A peek into the soul of Marc Marquez
2
Replies
20
Views
2K
#22
#22
M
FIM Technical Director, Roland Berger, Speaks About 2027 Technical Regulations
Replies
16
Views
1K
mikesbytes
mikesbytes

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions

Back
Top