sepang race

Jumkie said:

Im ok with race direction stopping race as conditions were getting worse. They have been inconsistent at best. Having personally attended Shiverstone and hurricane Ike at Indy, i wonder how they determine stoppages. Incidentally, at Shiverstone2, Wsbk addition, conditions went to ...., the 'leader' and others rose hand, race direction didnt flinch, 2 riders came across line on their ... in spectacular fashion. But im also of the opinion, that todays decision was done because Lorenzo called for it! Dont kid urself, those of u who think otherwise have head lodged up .... Its irrelevant that other riders conceded the stoppage was a relief. Does anybody remember Donny when Dovi won? Edwards who was on podium said, and i quote: "That was 45 mins of complete ........!" Using Kropos logic, maybe that race should not have been run? Pedro & Casey were fine. Lorenzo was experiencing problems cuz his soft tire option became a liability. The stoppage affectively nullified Pedros & Stoners better tire choice. I would have loved to see Nicky on the podium but there was no guaranty that was gonna happen, nor that Pedro or anybody else was gonna finish given more laps. So as i said, im fine with the stoppage, but im not going to be naive and say they didnt do it for Lorenzo.

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I just wonder weather ( pun ) the race would have been stopped so promptly if it was James ellisons hand that went up in the air on its own

Agree that there is some inconsistency in deciding when races should be red-flagged, but it's a very tough call to make. Each track is different, each race is different, and it's hard to judge the difference from the TV (other than 'man, that's some .... weather'). Whether RD can tell the difference or not is another question.



The WWE call would have been to let the race go on just long enough for Stoner to take 2nd after the count back. Would have made the difference 19 points, not 23, and Hayden might have got Lorenzo too. They didn't, though. They called it when they thought it was no longer safe.

Willski said:

I just wonder weather ( pun ) the race would have been stopped so promptly if it was James ellisons hand that went up in the air on its own

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Of course, but only if he was the championship contender and preferable in the UK. Just like they did for Sykes. (Oh wait, my bad, he raised his hand and they didn't stop it, and neither did they for their favorite son Haslam).

Jumkie said:

Of course, but only if he was the championship contender and preferable in the UK. Just like they did for Sykes. (Oh wait, my bad, he raised his hand and they didn't stop it, and neither did they for their favorite son Haslam).

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Italians run that series...

Kropotkin said:

Agree that there is some inconsistency in deciding when races should be red-flagged, but it's a very tough call to make. ...

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Agree, thats why I'm ok with this stoppage. And I respect your opinion as usual. I prefer they err on the side of rider safety. But when you have race direction so inconsistent, then logically, one must conclude they have 'other' reasons they take into account for their decisions, hence why I call ......... I'm not one to argue in favor of Pedro, but his body language was one of a man upset for the stoppage, this from the race leader no less. He was in the lead for godsake, stopping the race should have been a welcomed relief. And when you have the fastest rider in the world (when healthy) saying with a glimmer that the more it rained the conditions favored him, or as he put it "my playground", even being so bold as to say he fancied a race win if the race continued (a man for which I think you and I believe tells it as he sees it), then I must also weigh in their reactions to the conditions of this particular point in the race. We all knew Lorenzo had chosen the soft tires, which meant one could fairly predict he might have a liability given the track was moderately wet at first, then got worse. Incidentally, do you remember what Nicky's tires looked like the last time he was on the podium? They were wore down to the nub, in a wet race, that wasn't stopped, despite several riders falling like flies. I was thinking about this as Lorenzo raised his hand. That is the first thing I thought about (as the commentators had already mentioned their tire choice, so I was primed to see what might develop). I thought, ...., Lorenzo's tires are gone. Of course he was going to raise his hand. I have no allegiance to Lorenzo, so had he gone down as he almost did (god only kept him upright) I would have celebrated Nicky's podium and repeatedly posted 'in your face' comments to the Yellow army. But despite being Nicky's #1 fan (certified) I still want them all not to be injured. So again, I'm ok with the stoppage. And given this was the site of the most traumatic event to our sport in recent memory, just maybe they were still thinking about that. Just maybe, but honestly, I don't give these fools that much credit. I think Lorenzo's hand in the air was 90% of their decision. Don't wait for the press release admitting it though buddy.









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Kropotkin said:

Italians run that series...

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Yes, hence why they didn't stop it for the Brits. Not even poor old Crutchlow in this one.

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stiefel said:

The results that could have been are irrelevant. Stoner could have come off and broke every bone in his body a lap later.

Still, the timing of the red flag was very odd, especially thinking of other races in the recent past that were allowed to keep running in worse conditions. Yes, the conditions eventually became so bad that the race should have been red flagged in any case. Races get flagged when it becomes unrideable, sometimes not even then. Usually not in anticipation of conditions becoming unrideable. To me, it looks like race direction is pretty inconsistent in these decisions.

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To me it looked like it was getting to the point where someone would get hurt or worse 'not what we need .Ithink this is just honda moaning as it is not going to be there year .

fogarty said:

To me it looked like it was getting to the point where someone would get hurt or worse 'not what we need .Ithink this is just honda moaning as it is not going to be there year .

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Another thing to think about, if 2/3rds of the podium finishers felt they could continue safely, then you have to take this into account too. Of the 17 finishers, only 1 was rose his hand and pointed at the sky. Maybe that was enough, I honestly don't know. I can tell you with complete certainty, had that rider raising his hand been Nicky, I would have been calling for heads to roll if they didn't stop the race. But from my vantage point, sitting comfortably behind my computer screen, Pedro and Stoner wanted to continue (both humans, allegedly). Who "moans" to continue with more risk? I think you might have to check that opinion, as its rather counter intuitive. Again, I just think Lorenzo burned up his tires and honestly felt it was way too dangerous...for him. But I'm not one of them, for me personally, I think racing in the rain is dangerous, they often race in the rain. So....

Jumkie said:

Agree, thats why I'm ok with this stoppage. And I respect your opinion as usual. I prefer they err on the side of rider safety. But when you have race direction so inconsistent, then logically, one must conclude they have 'other' reasons they take into account for their decisions, hence why I call .........

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And just because I like it:

Jumkie said:

Another thing to think about, if 2/3rds of the podium finishers felt they could continue safely, then you have to take this into account too. Of the 17 finishers, only 1 was rose his hand and pointed at the sky. Maybe that was enough, I honestly don't know. I can tell you with complete certainty, had that rider raising his hand been Nicky, I would have been calling for heads to roll if they didn't stop the race. But from my vantage point, sitting comfortably behind my computer screen, Pedro and Stoner wanted to continue (both humans, allegedly). Who "moans" to continue with more risk? I think you might have to check that opinion, as its rather counter intuitive. Again, I just think Lorenzo burned up his tires and honestly felt it was way too dangerous...for him. But I'm not one of them, for me personally, I think racing in the rain is dangerous, they often race in the rain. So....

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In the post race interview stoner said should be stopped 1 or 2 laps ' pedrosa said run for only one more lap 'and Bautista and Rossi both said right thing to do .Ialso read race was only red flagged so to make sure a Spaniard wins world championship 'well who eles is going to win it ????

fogarty said:

Ialso read race was only red flagged so to make sure a Spaniard wins world championship 'well who eles is going to win it ????

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Nothing gets past u.

fogarty said:

In the post race interview stoner said should be stopped 1 or 2 laps ' pedrosa said run for only one more lap 'and Bautista and Rossi both said right thing to do .Ialso read race was only red flagged so to make sure a Spaniard wins world championship 'well who eles is going to win it ????

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Well lets see, Rossi is technically a Yamaha man again already. So I am not surprised. And Bautista is a me so sorry yes man so I am surprised he said that also. I think it was utter ........ that they stopped the race when they did. But its not the fault of Ho Lo.

Races Red flagged better than races cancelled because of an Accident

motogp finally gets with the programme.

fogarty said:

I also read race was only red flagged so to make sure a Spaniard wins world championship 'well who eles is going to win it ????

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Kropo.



As I said many times, a great rider but has everything going for him. Early in the season I decided to put big money on him for the title as it was obvious to me by then Dorna don't want Honda to win. First was the "safer" tires that only appears to work well on the Yamahas while the Honda is the most badly affected, latter at Misano put Pedrosa last on the grid - which resulted in his DNF, after not following the protocol (Ezy then came to apologise to Pedrosa after the race for Dorna's "mistake"), I was of course not surprised in today's race they put out the red flag seconds after the struggling JLo raised his hand.

We appear to have a defective batch of sarcasm meters.

jumkie's got it right: lorenzo felt it was too dangerous for him to continue and took a chance by raising his hand to hopefully stop the race. race conditions were horrible but not unridable at that point as shown by the others. red-flagging under those horrible conditions always a good idea in the name of safety. let's look at it another way: if lorenzo had been down the 28 points to pedrosa, would he have raised his hand? i don't think so as he'd have nothing to gain and everything to lose. taking a 2nd with stoner breathing down your neck was the very best outcome he could have hoped for at that point. it's his title to lose. call him a ..... but he played it right.

Kropotkin said:

I'll go and stand in a corner.

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That's right.

Kropotkin said:

We appear to have a defective batch of sarcasm meters.

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Well,it,s your own fault for being too subtle. haha



ps: It,s a known fact that americans don,t get irony/ subtlety. Perhaps its spreading to europe?

Jumkie said:

Agree, thats why I'm ok with this stoppage. And I respect your opinion as usual. I prefer they err on the side of rider safety. But when you have race direction so inconsistent, then logically, one must conclude they have 'other' reasons they take into account for their decisions, hence why I call ......... I'm not one to argue in favor of Pedro, but his body language was one of a man upset for the stoppage, this from the race leader no less. He was in the lead for godsake, stopping the race should have been a welcomed relief. And when you have the fastest rider in the world (when healthy) saying with a glimmer that the more it rained the conditions favored him, or as he put it "my playground", even being so bold as to say he fancied a race win if the race continued (a man for which I think you and I believe tells it as he sees it), then I must also weigh in their reactions to the conditions of this particular point in the race. We all knew Lorenzo had chosen the soft tires, which meant one could fairly predict he might have a liability given the track was moderately wet at first, then got worse. Incidentally, do you remember what Nicky's tires looked like the last time he was on the podium? They were wore down to the nub, in a wet race, that wasn't stopped, despite several riders falling like flies. I was thinking about this as Lorenzo raised his hand. That is the first thing I thought about (as the commentators had already mentioned their tire choice, so I was primed to see what might develop). I thought, ...., Lorenzo's tires are gone. Of course he was going to raise his hand. I have no allegiance to Lorenzo, so had he gone down as he almost did (god only kept him upright) I would have celebrated Nicky's podium and repeatedly posted 'in your face' comments to the Yellow army. But despite being Nicky's #1 fan (certified) I still want them all not to be injured. So again, I'm ok with the stoppage. And given this was the site of the most traumatic event to our sport in recent memory, just maybe they were still thinking about that. Just maybe, but honestly, I don't give these fools that much credit. I think Lorenzo's hand in the air was 90% of their decision. Don't wait for the press release admitting it though buddy.

[font=Helvetica Neue', Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]Yes, hence why they didn't stop it for the Brits. Not even poor old Crutchlow in this one.

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Jumkie, don,t you remember...........Religion sucks!

Kropotkin said:

And just because I like it:

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Can somebody please find a ..... cat sticking his head in the sand as my reply to Krops.



Ah, yes, race direction, that bastion of competence. Good to know at least you have confidence in their abilities and lack of bias. Hey, Krops maybe race direction promised Lorenzo another engine out of their goody bag just incase he crashed? I mean, they wouldn't ever be looking at Lorenzo for clues on what they should do, right?