Sepang Race Thread

[J4rn0]

So, predictably Valentino Rossi has beaten his teammate Jorge Lorenzo at Sepang, for the title and for the race. This come as no surprise to me

And we have Stoner back, predictably as fast as ever when fit. Stoner looks even better actually, he seems capable to adjust his pace to circumstances and to have more control on the race now. Bad news for the others, if he'll be able maintain such speed and control next year, under pressure.

That is something we'll have to see next year. Stoner has returned in a situation in which for a fast rider like him it is relatively easier to score wins, given the understandably conservative attitude with which Rossi has approached P.I. and Sepang -- but even in these circumstances, Rossi clocked the fastest laps in both races, which makes clear that the potential of Valentino is still intact. The two best riders of the pack are already measuring each other, ready to resume their duel

What about Lorenzo, hastily declared as the best and the fastest? He's a great rider of course. But as I said earlier, I have the impression that Lorenzo is going to suffer Casey's return more than Valentino. Deep inside, Jorge Lorenzo knows that Valentino and Stoner are better than him, and that if someone is going to beat VR46 for the title that is likely to be Stoner again, not him. And that must burn.

The last thought is for Yamaha. This year, for the first time, they would have won the riders' title even without Rossi. The conclusion they will draw from that, is one of the keys to the next season...

 

[Mick D]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Oct 26 2009, 03:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The last thought is for Yamaha. This year, for the first time, they would have won the riders' title even without Rossi. The conclusion they will draw from that, is one of the keys to the next season...

Very salient observation J, but more likely to impact decisions for 2011...

 

[Tom]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Oct 26 2009, 08:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have the impression that Lorenzo is going to suffer Casey's return more than Valentino. Deep inside, Jorge Lorenzo knows that Valentino and Stoner are better than him

I agree that he is likely to suffer Casey's return more than Vale will, but that is based on the assumption that next year will be the same as this one, except that Stoner force himself between the two Yamahas. I think you are very wrong if you think Lorenzo believes he is the third best rider in the world, he'll be gearing up to win the title next year and a major part of that as always is believing he can do it.

 

[michaelm]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Oct 26 2009, 08:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When I talked about Casey being the fastest today, I was talking about race distance too, not just one lap. In my apparently delusional world Casey is faster and more likely to win a race (when healthy), than anybody else, Rossi included. His scaphoid and post viral fatigue have prevented him from showing his real abilities this year and last year. I think the last 2 races are evidence enough of his capabilities. Even Rossi has been known to comment that "Casey rides like a god" Nuff said!
Rossi has the runs on the board and if Casey continues to be afflicted by problems he will never win another championship, buuuuuuuuuuuut , when healthy, Caseys speed is unmatchable( apart from the one or two Ducati unfriendly circuits.)

To clarify further, put all the top riders on the same bike and Casey would win. Put them all on the Ducati and he would probably lap them...........

I hope and believe casey has a good chance next year, but I also do not believe in counting chickens, particularly at the time of valentino's most recent well deserved moment of triumph.

Speaking of such things, I am bemused by valentino's extended egg/chicken/ old boiler /chicken soup metaphor/analogy; perhaps it is clearer in the original italian

. Does it mean the chicken has produced 9 eggs/ world championships but now is an old boiler and can produce no more, or that the chicken itself remains and can produce one last numerologically apposite world championship in 2010? I hasten to add that there appears to be no reason to suspect non-metaphorically that he does not have the potential for several more world championships.

 

[Pinky]

when stoner wins and is on song, no one can match him, he can win by 10+ seconds. yes rossi got the fastest time but that was on a drying track and by the stoner had already had a 15 second lead. and similar story in PI.

when rossi wins, its by a much smaller margin. probably because on the yamaha there is so little difference between rossi and horhey.

 

[nghiemlong]

Hi pinky,

You must understand that "win by smallest possible margin" is the most powerful weapon of Rossi: rivals never know what's his true performance. And be defeated by a small margin is always a massive blow to his enemy.

.

Take a look at gpweek.com and you can read that article.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Oct 26 2009, 11:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>when stoner wins and is on song, no one can match him, he can win by 10+ seconds. yes rossi got the fastest time but that was on a drying track and by the stoner had already had a 15 second lead. and similar story in PI.

when rossi wins, its by a much smaller margin. probably because on the yamaha there is so little difference between rossi and horhey.

 

[Fred00]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Oct 26 2009, 08:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When I talked about Casey being the fastest today, I was talking about race distance too, not just one lap. In my apparently delusional world Casey is faster and more likely to win a race (when healthy), than anybody else, Rossi included. His scaphoid and post viral fatigue have prevented him from showing his real abilities this year and last year. I think the last 2 races are evidence enough of his capabilities. Even Rossi has been known to comment that "Casey rides like a god" Nuff said!
Rossi has the runs on the board and if Casey continues to be afflicted by problems he will never win another championship, buuuuuuuuuuuut , when healthy, Caseys speed is unmatchable( apart from the one or two Ducati unfriendly circuits.)

To clarify further, put all the top riders on the same bike and Casey would win. Put them all on the Ducati and he would probably lap them...........

Lots of assumptions in this post to be honest. No one can be certain of the things you claim, so it's pointless to debate really. All the top four guys have good and bad weekends.

 

[L8Braker]

First off congrats to Val for another World Championship.
Second...holy .... Stoner, talking about putting your stamp of authority on the race...damn!
Summary, boring race after Dovi went down....on to Valencia.

 

[DamnNinja]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L8Braker @ Oct 26 2009, 08:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>First off congrats to Val for another World Championship.
Second...holy .... Stoner, talking about putting your stamp of authority on the race...damn!
Summary, boring race after Dovi went down....on to Valencia.


Congrats to Vale and Spies for his WSBK champion.

 

[frosty58]

congrats to stoner for a commanding wet race victory. congrats to rossi for his 9th title. the 250 race was fantastic...........................

 

[michaelm]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Oct 26 2009, 06:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I do believe so - but then, there are firsts for everything.
Gaz
As for other questions along similar lines, there is one other answer; eddie lawson (1989), albeit he defended his regained title on a bike of different manufacture.
(EDIT) Geoff Duke also I believe.

 

[VHMP01]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Oct 26 2009, 01:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When I talked about Casey being the fastest today, I was talking about race distance too, not just one lap. In my apparently delusional world Casey is faster and more likely to win a race (when healthy), than anybody else, Rossi included. His scaphoid and post viral fatigue have prevented him from showing his real abilities this year and last year. I think the last 2 races are evidence enough of his capabilities. Even Rossi has been known to comment that "Casey rides like a god" Nuff said!
Rossi has the runs on the board and if Casey continues to be afflicted by problems he will never win another championship, buuuuuuuuuuuut , when healthy, Caseys speed is unmatchable( apart from the one or two Ducati unfriendly circuits.)

To clarify further, put all the top riders on the same bike and Casey would win. Put them all on the Ducati and he would probably lap them...........

“Delusional”… You got that one right.

“Apparently”… You got that one wrong!

 

[VHMP01]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Oct 26 2009, 02:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That is something we'll have to see next year. Stoner has returned in a situation in which for a fast rider like him it is relatively easier to score wins, given the understandably conservative attitude with which Rossi has approached P.I. and Sepang -- but even in these circumstances, Rossi clocked the fastest laps in both races, which makes clear that the potential of Valentino is still intact. The two best riders of the pack are already measuring each other, ready to resume their duel

+1.

 

[babelfish]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Oct 26 2009, 05:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Are you two serious? The man rides an absolutely great race, does exactly what he needs to do to win the title by finishing in front of Lorenzo (leaving nothing to chance and allowing himself to ride his race rather than following and focusing on Lorenzo) and you take offense to people telling it like it is? He didn't fight for a race win. Yeah, he closed in on Pedrosa but his getting pushed wide and waiting for everything to settle in the opening laps created the gap that he had to close. If he wasn't in championship mode, he would have charged through the field immediately and certainly wouldn't have been stuffed by Melandri repeatedly. Don't tell me he did "more than enough." He did what he needed to do to win the title. And hats off to him, he's had an absolutely fantastic season and rode a very, very smart race and had a great pace. Likely a pace good enough to win had circumstances been a little different. But that's the way it played out, can't we concede some credit to Stoner and Pedrosa?

Stoner was absolutely on another planet. Had he not backed off for the last handful of laps, it could have been a much larger margin of victory. Really interested to see what he will do at Valencia, he hasn't looked this fast since early 2008 or possibly even 2007.

Did I catch a smile from Pedrosa in parc ferme? For a second place? Really great ride for Dani and he seems to be putting a string of results together. If he can stay healthy in the offseason he might be able to put a solid package together for 2010 and make a run of it.

Lorenzo had a great go of it coming from dead last, just didn't have enough to run with Rossi. Or Stoner. He can hold his head high, he took advantage of Rossi's mistake all throughout the season and gave him an honest run. I don't think he'll have the same fortune in the way of Rossi making mistakes but with another year of experience and a bit more maturity, he should be in a position to challenge Rossi on a more consistent basis next season.

Happy to see Hayden make it through turn one and take a top five. Looked a fair bit slower than most on the brakes but his corner speed and exits looked as good as anyone's, except Stoner's.

Vermeulen should still be in the series. Simple as.

Hats off to Valentino for another title, truly the greatest rider I've ever witnessed. And as michael said, anyone who says that Rossi is done is merely attempting to convince themselves of that theory. The man is as fast as ever and looks to be having more fun than he's had in a long, long time.

 

[VHMP01]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Oct 26 2009, 04:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I hope and believe casey has a good chance next year, but I also do not believe in counting chickens, particularly at the time of valentino's most recent well deserved moment of triumph.

Speaking of such things, I am bemused by valentino's extended egg/chicken/ old boiler /chicken soup metaphor/analogy; perhaps it is clearer in the original italian

. Does it mean the chicken has produced 9 eggs/ world championships but now is an old boiler and can produce no more, or that the chicken itself remains and can produce one last numerologically apposite world championship in 2010? I hasten to add that there appears to be no reason to suspect non-metaphorically that he does not have the potential for several more world championships.

Trying to illustrate (as in Mexico we also say “Gallina vieja hace buen caldo”… And pushing to the limit of the metaphor, it’s more like an old wolf still hunts. Or that even though Rossi is racing against much younger riders, he still can do it at top level, even being what you could say ‘old’ for the Sport.

 

[michaelm]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Oct 26 2009, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>+1.
Sure (for sure

?), but on the other hand stoner couldn't have done much more than he has since his return either. If anything estoril was the most hopeful sign for stoner/ducati fans, as neither casey nor the gp08 appeared at all strong there last year.

 

[VHMP01]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nghiemlong @ Oct 26 2009, 06:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi pinky,

You must understand that "win by smallest possible margin" is the most powerful weapon of Rossi: rivals never know what's his true performance. And be defeated by a small margin is always a massive blow to his enemy.

.

Take a look at gpweek.com and you can read that article.

An ‘Old’ wolf that still hunts!

 

[michaelm]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Oct 26 2009, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Trying to illustrate (as in Mexico we also say “Gallina vieja hace buen caldo”… And pushing to the limit of the metaphor, it’s more like an old wolf still hunts. Or that even though Rossi is racing against much younger riders, he still can do it at top level, even being what you could say ‘old’ for the Sport.
I did get the gist of it and was attempting to make a joke really, leading on from telling bunyip not to count his chickens

. I apologise as I am obviously being too obtuse even for monolingual english speakers; your english is probably better than mine anyway

.

 

[VHMP01]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Oct 26 2009, 08:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sure (for sure

?), but on the other hand stoner couldn't have done much more than he has done since his return either. If anything estoril was the most hopeful sign for stoner/ducati fans, as neither casey nor the gp08 appeared at all strong there last year.

+1 again Michael.

 

[Jumkie]

I'm hungover. I will post when I get rid of this headache. Had a big ... BBQ with 50+ friends to watch the races at my pad. Then we started taking shots...that's when it got crazy.