Sepang Race Thread

[frizzle]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 26 2009, 12:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

Very funny stuff.......mainly patriarchal delusion with a little bit of common sense.......CS certainly isn't the fastest motorcycle racer in the world today, Sepang was great however, getting to the front early was his only masterstroke, with now spray to deal with he was able to clear off, VR postest the fastest time, and consistently quickest to make up more than 8 seconds on them even though his title was wrapped up with much less........

No offence buddy but you are as biased as anyone on here.

 

[Gaz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 26 2009, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Did you not read what I was responding to???? Outrageous statements like 'CS is the best Motorcycle racer in the world today' and VR will never achieve anything else????
All of this after VR just clinched his 9th world title, I don't have to be a VR fan to argue the absurdity of this rubbish,

The actual line used by Bunyip to which you responded does not allude to Stoner being the best, but says the fastest, so to play pedantics being the fastest does not automatically make one the best.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Oct 26 2009, 12:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Congratulations also to Casey. He is (when fit and healthy) the fastest motorcycle racer in the world today.

Now, to take it further, it is bordering on futile to suggest that in MGP this year Rossi has not been the best across the entire season, no matter who has or has not been faster at times.

Rossi has won the championship and that means that he has performed most consistently and is therefore deserving of being called the best in 2009 (just as 2008, CS in 2007, Hayden in 2006 etc). There can be no valid argument that the championship winner has not been the best rider in that category across the season.

But, one can argue (should they choose) as to which rider was faster if they wanted to, as many a fast rider has not won a race, never mind a championship.

I have said elsewhere a while ago (so this year has hammered that a little) that to me, Stoner is a faster rider than is Rossi, but that Rossi is a faster racer than is Stoner. The difference for me is that a fast lap is just that, a one off instance of speed, but a fast race is a number of laps of consistent speed and it is this which wins races and ultimately kudos and championships.

Personally, with that said, whilst I still maintain that to me Stoner is blindingly quick I actually believe that he has been challenged by Lorenzo in 2009, but that both fall behind VR in race terms and both still have to large a variance of laptimes across a race when compared to Rossi (not all the time, but instances).

Now, with that all typed and ready for discussion, to me the result in 2009 is deserved given the way the year panned out with Pedrosa injured and (for this watcher) still underperforming to a degree, Lorenzo crashing to frequently (if VR crashes he can/does restart) and Stoner's absence all meaning that these guys did not or could not produce the results. That means that Rossi did what he had to do and turned up, picked up, raced up or whatever to finish the year as the most consistent (in terms of higher placings) rider of the season and worthy champion, no argument.

None of this should be taken as diminishing from the achievement of Rossi and his team this year who have at times struggled but still always produced and to win a championship is an achievement, to defend it is greater, but to win the number he has is deserving of major accolades.






Gaz

 

[geewhiz14]

Congratulations to Valentino, that was a decent recovery on his way to yet another title.

And let me just celebrate Dani's respectable 2nd place finish in the wet. I was so nervous during the entire race, nearly half-convinced that the Danibot will yet again malfunction in the wet. Good thing my prayers got through.

Damn you, Stoner! Looks like it's back to #26 for Dani next season.

Just kidding, Stoner pretty much bossed everyone in the wet. Fair play.

 

[michaelm]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Oct 26 2009, 04:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The actual line used by Bunyip to which you responded does not allude to Stoner being the best, but says the fastest, so to play pedantics being the fastest does not automatically make one the best.
Gaz
Not the best time for stoner fans to be raising this argument in my view, given valentino's pole lap at sepang

.

I believe stoner will prove to be better than lorenzo in the long term. I don't think lorenzo is capable of the focus stoner showed in 2007 when he basically made no significant riding error in a race for a whole season.

 

[Austin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Oct 25 2009, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think Rossi did ‘One Up’ more than what he needed to do! The simple and extra safe thing would have been to follow Lorenzo and just come one place behind.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Oct 25 2009, 12:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's one way to look at it.
Another way to see it:
- Rossi ended up with 16 points more than he needed to clich the championship
- he did the fastest lap in the race

Now I agree that he didn't push his maximum but non the less he did more than "just enough". To set the fastest lap on a wet/damp track against the best riders in the world can never be considered crusing and unless absolutly nesessary not something you do in the process of doing "just enough".
If you want to check out "Just enough" it was done by it's definition in another championship today, but let's not spoil the results here.
Are you two serious? The man rides an absolutely great race, does exactly what he needs to do to win the title by finishing in front of Lorenzo (leaving nothing to chance and allowing himself to ride his race rather than following and focusing on Lorenzo) and you take offense to people telling it like it is? He didn't fight for a race win. Yeah, he closed in on Pedrosa but his getting pushed wide and waiting for everything to settle in the opening laps created the gap that he had to close. If he wasn't in championship mode, he would have charged through the field immediately and certainly wouldn't have been stuffed by Melandri repeatedly. Don't tell me he did "more than enough." He did what he needed to do to win the title. And hats off to him, he's had an absolutely fantastic season and rode a very, very smart race and had a great pace. Likely a pace good enough to win had circumstances been a little different. But that's the way it played out, can't we concede some credit to Stoner and Pedrosa?

Stoner was absolutely on another planet. Had he not backed off for the last handful of laps, it could have been a much larger margin of victory. Really interested to see what he will do at Valencia, he hasn't looked this fast since early 2008 or possibly even 2007.

Did I catch a smile from Pedrosa in parc ferme? For a second place? Really great ride for Dani and he seems to be putting a string of results together. If he can stay healthy in the offseason he might be able to put a solid package together for 2010 and make a run of it.

Lorenzo had a great go of it coming from dead last, just didn't have enough to run with Rossi. Or Stoner. He can hold his head high, he took advantage of Rossi's mistake all throughout the season and gave him an honest run. I don't think he'll have the same fortune in the way of Rossi making mistakes but with another year of experience and a bit more maturity, he should be in a position to challenge Rossi on a more consistent basis next season.

Happy to see Hayden make it through turn one and take a top five. Looked a fair bit slower than most on the brakes but his corner speed and exits looked as good as anyone's, except Stoner's.

Vermeulen should still be in the series. Simple as.

Hats off to Valentino for another title, truly the greatest rider I've ever witnessed. And as michael said, anyone who says that Rossi is done is merely attempting to convince themselves of that theory. The man is as fast as ever and looks to be having more fun than he's had in a long, long time.

 

[Gaz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Oct 26 2009, 05:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not the best time for stoner fans to be raising this argument in my view, given valentino's pole lap at sepang

.

Don't disagree with you either, as I mention in my subsequent comments in that post, 2009 has somewhat diminished (maybe reduced is a better word) the instances of the CS fast lap 'supremacy'.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Oct 26 2009, 05:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I believe stoner will prove to be better than lorenzo in the long term. I don't think lorenzo is capable of the focus stoner showed in 2007 when he basically made no significant riding error in a race for a whole season.

This is probably a good discussion point of it's own actually provided those discussing can remove personal bias during the discussion.

For mine, your point is worthy of discussion as it is interesting in terms of the rider focus and how or does it impact on their on-track performances. In terms of what I mean, we see that VR is easily able to balance the ontrack with the offtrack distractions bought about by building and maintaining the VR brand. The question therefore is can Lorenzo do the same (as he seems intent on creating and maintaining his brand) or is teh Stoner approach (ie. race only, brand - what is a brand) the more likely to work today.

Sorry, another off-topic post.






Gaz

 

[VHMP01]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Oct 25 2009, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Don't tell me he did "more than enough".

No Austin… Not 'More than enough'. But also Not 'just enough'. There can be a huge difference, so we see it as a bit more than enough, and I guess you see it as a bit less than what he could have done. A Case of an half empty half full glass I guess!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 25 2009, 08:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Very funny stuff.......mainly patriarchal delusion with a little bit of common sense.......CS certainly isn't the fastest motorcycle racer in the world today, Sepang was great however, getting to the front early was his only masterstroke, with now spray to deal with he was able to clear off, VR postest the fastest time (in the wet too), and consistently quickest to make up more than 8 seconds on them even though his title was wrapped up with much less........

Smashing Sepang's Pole that had been set on slicks (now that they have gotten rid of them) on the way! Now that is the 'Fastest' Today!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Oct 25 2009, 01:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>By the way, Rossi Pole is his 58th matching Doohan at the top of Poles!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Oct 25 2009, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You seem to be hung up on this patriarchal stuff; if you are old enough to have followed the careers of gardner and doohan avidly as you claim, it would be difficult for anyone on here to be patriarchal towards you.

Valentino did what he needed to do in this race, and would have been mad to try for the win in these conditions after being shuffled back early; I am sure he could have beaten dani for second even after this.

Stoner equally would have been mad to try and match lap-times with rossi when he had a 20 second lead; however he has been mad enough to do such things in the past and I did have some concern watching the end of the race that he would try to do so. The fact that he is riding more tactically now should concern you as a rossi fan . Strategically I am not sure beating rossi in theses races is so sound, as it will likely make valentino and yamaha push harder for next year.

Strategically? The change of weather made it more of a 'Lotery'! No one had a wet setup; Stoner (Not really taking anything away from him intentionally) just happened to have a good wet setup quickly and by luck (Not the same for Lorenzo). It did not rain during the whole weekend for anyone! Unless Stoner had some hidden weather info obtained with a 'back door deal' with Tlaloc (Aztecs God of rain).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 25 2009, 09:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>another successful title defense something which no other can match.......

Isn't Rossi the 'First' rider ever to successfully defend a Title after gain it back? I think Agostini was the only one other rider to recover a lost Title, but after that he never was able to defended it. This would mean another 'Top of the cream' Record for Rossi!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Oct 25 2009, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But, one can argue (should they choose) as to which rider was faster if they wanted to, as many a fast rider has not won a race, never mind a championship.

I have said elsewhere a while ago (so this year has hammered that a little) that to me, Stoner is a faster rider than is Rossi, but that Rossi is a faster racer than is Stoner. The difference for me is that a fast lap is just that, a one off instance of speed, but a fast race is a number of laps of consistent speed and it is this which wins races and ultimately kudos and championships.

Gaz

This could also make Pedrosa the 'Fastest' rider today with 349 Km/hr at one point in this MotoGP 2009 Champinoship! By your logic a one fast lap can be reduced to a one fast sprint to make a rider the fastest!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 25 2009, 09:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Are you denying Stoner is the fastest rider in the world

As I said above… After that smashed Sepang's pole without slicks (the most recent pole) and the fastest lap in the race, talking about 'Today'… Man, that's a tough call Barry!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Oct 25 2009, 11:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not the best time for stoner fans to be raising this argument in my view, given valentino's pole lap at sepang.

+1

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Oct 25 2009, 07:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Congratulations to Rossi. He IS the greatest motorcycle racer of all time.

Congratulations also to Casey. He is (when fit and healthy) the fastest motorcycle racer in the world today…

Applies to the above!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Oct 25 2009, 07:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>(talking about Rossi) …they will be his last.


I think this last bit of a twist is what the problem here is!

 

[Gaz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Oct 26 2009, 05:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Isn't Rossi the 'First' rider ever to successfully defend a Title after gain it back? I think Agostini was the only one other rider to recover a lost Title, but after that he never was able to defended it. This would mean another 'Top of the cream' Record for Rossi!

I do believe so - but then, there are firsts for everything.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Oct 26 2009, 05:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This could also make Pedrosa the 'Fastest' rider today with 349 Km/hr at one point in this 2009 Champinoship! By your logic a one fast lap can be reduced to a one fast sprint to make a rider the fastest!

V, why must you do this and seem to liken everything to an attack on Rossi?

Why is it so hard to look at fastest in the context that fastest exists in a straight line, on a one lap basis and across race distance etc?

Please for once, and I do apologise as this is not intended to read as a personal type of post, but please remove the glasses for a second and read what was written, what it was responding to and read it without any defensive 'this must be attacking a pro-Rossi' comment.

If you can do that you will see it for exactly what it was intended and what has been said previously and it is not a slight on any rider but a factual comment that there are and have been riders that are faster than Rossi across a lap, but these same riders are not able to turn consistently fast laps. Were this not true that Rossi would have the fastest lap at each race which he has won, been on pole each time etc etc (same for the likes of Stoner, Lorenzo, Pedrosa when they win), but we know this is not the case.

Now let me ask you (and probably others who will jump in), why must Rossi be the fastest rider this year?

He has proven himself to be the best this year, does it mean he is/was/hastobe the fastest?

And yes, this is discussion as I am genuinely confused by your take on 'fastest' at the moment





Gaz

 

[Talpa]

Thanks VP, Gaz and Michm for adding some realism to this discussion, although Gaz you did get a bit wayward with that Fastest Rider stuff as Mic pointed out,

IMO if you are to obtain the Fastest rider in the world tag then you have to win and or place higher than anyone else throughout the course of a season of racing, in different countries at different tracks and in different conditions........yes? And racing determines the fastest rider-yes? This is why we race and this is why we have a Moto GP world championship title awarded every year, VR just won it again, therefore who in the world has the right to say that someone else is the fastest rider? No one does, and only sow grapes brings such detraction-especially the 'This is the last thing VR will celebrate' IMO that is the worst case of fanboy ....... sore loser remark I have seen here, and I'm happy to point it out as others do ( much quicker and more venomous)when Rossi fans come out with half as much. BTW Bazza-not worth replying to....

Even if you are talking about one off quick laps- CS was a second off the pace in QP at Sepang-right? VR did the fastest lap of the track ever-right? Hence my argument with Bunyip's post-how can you say that CS is the Faster rider or racer currently with such evidence stacked against the point? And two other riders in between to top it off-

8 years senior, many challengers before and no doubt with Spies-some more to come, credit must be given where credit is due and most have done that here which in itself is admirable, the old chook can still lay an egg......

speaking of credit and Aussie riders I like, how about CV-great effort to shove it up Suzuki' arse, and we'll see how Bautista fairs on that pig, I don't believe his talent warranted CV's demise from MotoGP, as much as I love Loris, he should now be eased towards the door.

 

[VHMP01]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Oct 26 2009, 12:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>V, why must you do this and seem to liken everything to an attack on Rossi?

My mistake, sorry. I'll try not to take it so defensibly. Some are just twists you have to admit too. So it gets hard, sorry again!

Anyway, back to topic:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Oct 26 2009, 12:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why is it so hard to look at fastest in the context that fastest exists in a straight line, on a one lap basis and across race distance etc?

Please for once, and I do apologise as this is not intended to read as a personal type of post, but please remove the glasses for a second and read what was written, what it was responding to and read it without any defensive 'this must be attacking a pro-Rossi' comment.

If you can do that you will see it for exactly what it was intended and what has been said previously and it is not a slight on any rider but a factual comment that there are and have been riders that are faster than Rossi across a lap, but these same riders are not able to turn consistently fast laps. Were this not true that Rossi would have the fastest lap at each race which he has won, been on pole each time etc etc (same for the likes of Stoner, Lorenzo, Pedrosa when they win), but we know this is not the case.

Now let me ask you (and probably others who will jump in), why must Rossi be the fastest rider this year?

He has proven himself to be the best this year, does it mean he is/was/hastobe the fastest?

And yes, this is discussion as I am genuinely confused by your take on 'fastest' at the moment

Gaz

Poles up to Sepang:



Fastest Laps up to Sepang:

Podiums up to Sepang:

 

[Gaz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 26 2009, 07:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>IMO if you are to obtain the Fastest rider in the world tag then you have to win and or place higher than anyone else throughout the course of a season of racing, in different countries at different tracks and in different conditions........yes?

May be pedantics a bit but I would say that the description above would go a long way towards deciding whether that rider is or was the best of that season.

For me (and this is what I alluded to in the earlier posts), the word fast tends to apply to outright speed (ie. terminal speed) and this is not something that Rossi has dominated this year (as V points out Pedrosa pulled that 349 out).

Fastest in the manner I used it (and you refer to being obscure) certainly is different ot the context of this conversation as when I reread Bunyip's comment that seems to have started the entire 'fastest' debate I realised where the 'hang up' had occurred (I initially read it differently - as in I did not recognise the literal meaning of today)


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 26 2009, 07:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>'This is the last thing VR will celebrate' IMO that is the worst case of fanboy ....... sore loser remark I have seen here, and I'm happy to point it out as others do ( much quicker and more venomous)when Rossi fans come out with half as much.

Not sure it's the worst case of 'fanboy' that I have seen here but I agree, it is unlikely to be the case and poorly timed.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 26 2009, 07:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Even if you are talking about one off quick laps- CS was a second off the pace in QP at Sepang-right? VR did the fastest lap of the track ever-right? Hence my argument with Bunyip's post-how can you say that CS is the Faster rider or racer currently with such evidence stacked against the point? And two other riders in between to top it off-

Agreed and as I say a little earlier - I actually read Bunyip's post differently to teh way you interpreted it (and it appears V as well)

I read the 'today' as a figurative meaning not literal which seems to be the interpretation that has taken the path this direction.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 26 2009, 07:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>8 years senior, many challengers before and no doubt with Spies-some more to come, credit must be given where credit is due and most have done that here which in itself is admirable, the old chook can still lay an egg......

Agreed and thus why I really don't want the thread to go down the path of many of late which has been a battle of semantics, pedantics and piss taking.

It should be used for what is deserved which is race discussion and congratulations to Rossi and Team-Rossi for their championship and not a 'he said' 'she said' thing.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 26 2009, 07:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>speaking of credit and Aussie riders I like, how about CV-great effort to shove it up Suzuki' arse, and we'll see how Bautista fairs on that pig, I don't believe his talent warranted CV's demise from MotoGP, as much as I love Loris, he should now be eased towards the door.

I like CV, seriously do but as I said a while ago, I find myself torn (bear in mind that in 2006 I tipped that he would win a title before CS I rated him that highly)

On one hand I feel he has produced little in his time despite some podiums and race wins. Whereas on the other hand I see that the Suzuki really is a PoS by comparison to the other bikes and has made no forward progress in terms of development etc - but is this his fault. Then there are the constant reminders from mamny of his detractors that he was beaten by his team-mates in teh championships and that they feel this means he is underperforming etc.

On the other hand, I feel that were he on a Honda/Yamaha we would likely see his truer abilities which I genuinely believe to be top notch.

But across all, he made the decisions to stay with Suzuki when it was said other offers existed so ultimately he took the risk and for mine, lost.






Gaz

 

[Austin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 26 2009, 01:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>IMO if you are to obtain the Fastest rider in the world tag then you have to win and or place higher than anyone else throughout the course of a season of racing, in different countries at different tracks and in different conditions........yes? And racing determines the fastest rider-yes? This is why we race and this is why we have a Moto GP world championship title awarded every year, VR just won it again, therefore who in the world has the right to say that someone else is the fastest rider? No one does, and only sow grapes brings such detraction-especially the 'This is the last thing VR will celebrate' IMO that is the worst case of fanboy ....... sore loser remark I have seen here, and I'm happy to point it out as others do ( much quicker and more venomous)when Rossi fans come out with half as much. BTW Bazza-not worth replying to....
I agree. Now this isn't an attack on you or Rossi, but here's where the 'boppers get the targets on their backs. Do you think there are many out there who believe that Hayden was the fastest in 2006? Especially many Rossi fans? I'm not going to sit here and apply your theory to 2006, my personal opinion is that Hayden was the best rider that year but not necessarily the fastest. Not everything is black and white, there are shades of gray. Rossi is the best rider out there, in my opinion. But when things are working for him, Stoner has the potential to be the fastest man on track.

 

[Gaz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Oct 26 2009, 07:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My mistake, sorry. I'll try not to take it so defensibly. Some are just twists you have to admit too. So it gets hard, sorry again!

Anyway, back to topic:

V inserted screen caps from MotoGP here

No probs but all I meant was please do not take everything as an attack as really, Rossi needs little defending within the context of achievements (championships, points, races etc).

As for your caps, I gather we are looking at interpretations of fastest as against best.

To me and I will say it again (sit down Talpa before you fall down

) Rossi has clearly been the best rider this year based upon laptimes, racetimes, pole times, consistency of placings etc - the best. Period.

Will leave it there because as I say in my reply to Talpa, this thread should be about the race, and the congratulations to team-Rossi, not about me and anyone else playing pedantics, semantics - you guys that have supported should enjoy the moment so go ahead

Gaz

 

[michaelm]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Oct 26 2009, 06:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Strategically? The change of weather made it more of a 'Lotery'! No one had a wet setup; Stoner (Not really taking anything away from him intentionally) just happened to have a good wet setup quickly and by luck (Not the same for Lorenzo). It did not rain during the whole weekend for anyone! Unless Stoner had some hidden weather info obtained with a 'back door deal' with Tlaloc (Aztecs God of rain).
I was attempting to be facetious (and apparently failing to be so

). As you say, it is unlilkely stoner could have had any detailed plan for the peculiar circumstances of this race particularly as part of a multi-race strategy, and being in need of re-establishing his reputation and some would say even his career would also obviously have been keen to do as well as he possibly could in these races without consideration for long term consequences. What I meant to suggest was that it would be better fror any aspirations casey has for next year's title if valentino and yamaha went into the off-season in a post-2005 frame of mind instead of a post-2007 frame of mind when they appeared to be rather motivated

. I do think my point about him racing more tactically since his return has some validity though.

 

[projectmorf]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (geewhiz14 @ Oct 26 2009, 03:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Congratulations to Valentino, that was a decent recovery on his way to yet another title.

And let me just celebrate Dani's respectable 2nd place finish in the wet. I was so nervous during the entire race, nearly half-convinced that the Danibot will yet again malfunction in the wet. Good thing my prayers got through.

Damn you, Stoner! Looks like it's back to #26 for Dani next season.

Just kidding, Stoner pretty much bossed everyone in the wet. Fair play.

 

[michaelm]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Oct 26 2009, 07:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>On the other hand, I feel that were he on a Honda/Yamaha we would likely see his truer abilities which I genuinely believe to be top notch.

But across all, he made the decisions to stay with Suzuki when it was said other offers existed so ultimately he took the risk and for mine, lost.

Gaz
This is my view also. Whether it is lack of financial/technical support from suzuki or poor management from denning, suzuki appear to be going nowhere at present, and after a brief flare of hope even capirossi's well recognised developmental skills appear to have availed them little. As I recall even when chris signed people were doubtful, and he was apparently well in with honda and would presumably have been more so if he had waited another year and perhaps won the wsbk championship.

 

[Bunyip]

When I talked about Casey being the fastest today, I was talking about race distance too, not just one lap. In my apparently delusional world Casey is faster and more likely to win a race (when healthy), than anybody else, Rossi included. His scaphoid and post viral fatigue have prevented him from showing his real abilities this year and last year. I think the last 2 races are evidence enough of his capabilities. Even Rossi has been known to comment that "Casey rides like a god" Nuff said!
Rossi has the runs on the board and if Casey continues to be afflicted by problems he will never win another championship, buuuuuuuuuuuut , when healthy, Caseys speed is unmatchable( apart from the one or two Ducati unfriendly circuits.)

To clarify further, put all the top riders on the same bike and Casey would win. Put them all on the Ducati and he would probably lap them...........

 

[mylexicon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Oct 25 2009, 11:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I like CV, seriously do but as I said a while ago, I find myself torn (bear in mind that in 2006 I tipped that he would win a title before CS I rated him that highly)

On one hand I feel he has produced little in his time despite some podiums and race wins. Whereas on the other hand I see that the Suzuki really is a PoS by comparison to the other bikes and has made no forward progress in terms of development etc - but is this his fault. Then there are the constant reminders from mamny of his detractors that he was beaten by his team-mates in teh championships and that they feel this means he is underperforming etc.

On the other hand, I feel that were he on a Honda/Yamaha we would likely see his truer abilities which I genuinely believe to be top notch.

But across all, he made the decisions to stay with Suzuki when it was said other offers existed so ultimately he took the risk and for mine, lost.

I like CV too. He seems like the kind of guy who just gets on with his riding and doesn't get caught up in awkward tensions in the MotoGP paddock.

I'm a little bit concerned about the move to Kawasaki. I'm really glad they will be throwing the full weight of their factory racing efforts behind Paul Bird, but I'm a little bit worried about the seemingly hair-brained decision they have made for the new engine. I mean, 540 degress without a single combustion stroke and adding a small electric motor to keep the bike from stalling?

Is it just me, or does that sound like a bit much for a production motorcycle? Last time Kawasaki talked about a revolutionary new direction, Hopper spent 1/2 the season in the hospital. I hope the 2010 and 2011 seasons go very differently for CV.

 

[Nuts]

For me it was actually a pretty exciting race, and anyone who says they were just cruising and not trying is absolutely full of .....
Even JT who was more than 5 sec a lap off the pace, would have kicked the ... of anyone here.

Awsome effort by Rossi to make it #9. Not his best race with the mistake at the start, but awsome ride back through the field to secure a fantastic third. He was tryibng very hard to catch Dovi, and was putting down some very fast laps. No doubt, Rossi is the best ever (and I think better than Nieto and Ago).

Awsome ride by Stoner. How often do you see a rider out to 12+ sec lead after 5 - 6 laps. He was in a league of his own today. When the planets align for Stoner, he is almost untouchable.
Amazing comeback.

Good ride by Dani to hold off Dovi and then Rossi, and maintain his second position, and pick up his first poduium in the wet, and he seemed almost happy in the post race interview. Pedro's growing on me.

Poor form from Lorenzo and the Fiat team getting trapped in the pits. Very stupid, but good ride by Lorenzo, and well done to keep the bike upright.
Important psychological win for Rossi to still beat Lorenzo, even when he didn't need to.

Aside from the crashers (I think Dovi was the only one - anyone can correct me) great effort by the riders to keep the bikes upright. It amazes me they can get enough grip to still lay the bikes over hard in the corners, and power down out of the corners without spinning up. They are still getting enough traction to be lifting the front wheel in 4th - 5th gear. These guys all have awsome skill and big balls.

 

[Gaz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nuts @ Oct 26 2009, 09:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Aside from the crashers (I think Dovi was the only one - anyone can correct me) great effort by the riders to keep the bikes upright. It amazes me they can get enough grip to still lay the bikes over hard in the corners, and power down out of the corners without spinning up. They are still getting enough traction to be lifting the front wheel in 4th - 5th gear. These guys all have awsome skill and big balls.

DePuniet had a big one early - and initial reports have seemed to indicate a broken wrist/arm






Gaz