Sepang Race Thread

[Talpa]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Nov 1 2009, 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Here, let me reply for you (even though chockmoose may feel I belong in the 'sand in ......' crowd), as I had this typed up yesterday but then thought to let you guys fire first, although I did have a picture of veins popping when you guys read the comments

It is very easy to hypothesise as to the 'what if' scenario given the absence of Stoner this year, but the truth and facts are that one cannot know with certainty where Stoner (be he fully fit, or still suffering) would have finished or indeed if he would have finished. and as such, if CS wins Valencia and JL DNF's, CS finishes second in the WC behind Rossi. That said, I can bet you a house that CS doesn't care about second, just as JL has no care about the place either as both only think of first (what FIAT Yamaha have to say is not known). But, it also need to be remembered that JL has had 4 non-pointscoring rides in season compared to Stoner's 3 non-pointscoring rides.

Gaz
see gaz you aren't really debating my point at all. I was simply saying that it is absurd to say that cs is faster than everyone else in the moto gp field. Simple, you have twisted and turned as usual, but the fact remains, vr is the 2008 and 2009 800cc motogp champion. That's it simple, vr is the best currently. This is not for debate and chookmoose has a very valid point, the Aussies here look like a bunch of sore losers and it's embarassing. In fact jl has pushed vr more this year than any previous rival IMO, 07 was an extreme case of technical imbalance and the previous 2 seasons have only enforced this, in fact cs hasn't even been close, points wise, at all.

And this is getting more irrelevant and demeaning to vr's amazing achievements, so I'm representing the Aussies who acknowledge the champion and congratulate him for his success in becoming the fastest rider in the world- again,

and pinky....you have to at least turn up to fall off and not score, this is certainly more admirable and something I thought I would be crediting a spainiad and an Italian over an Aussie with ever, but hey times change......and cs is certainly quite different to the Aussies before him

 

[michaelm]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Nov 1 2009, 07:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>see gaz you aren't really debating my point at all. I was simply saying that it is absurd to say that cs is faster than everyone else in the moto gp field. Simple, you have twisted and turned as usual, but the fact remains, vr is the 2008 and 2009 800cc motogp champion. That's it simple, vr is the best currently. This is not for debate and chookmoose has a very valid point, the Aussies here look like a bunch of sore losers and it's embarassing. In fact jl has pushed vr more this year than any previous rival IMO, 07 was an extreme case of technical imbalance and the previous 2 seasons have only enforced this, in fact cs hasn't even been close, points wise, at all.

And this is getting more irrelevant and demeaning to vr's amazing achievements, so I'm representing the Aussies who acknowledge the champion and congratulate him for his success in becoming the fastest rider in the world- again,
All true, except that no aussies other than pinky late in the thread raised the"what if" argument that I recall, hopefully for the very good reason that it has no validity, and my reading of gaz's post is that he dismisses it as well. Gs fan with whom you and chockmoose seem to have taken particular umbrage is canadian as far as I am aware.

 

[Talpa]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 1 2009, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>All true, except that no aussies other than pinky late in the thread raised the"what if" argument that I recall, hopefully for the very good reason that it has no validity, and my reading of gaz's post is that he dismisses it as well. Gs fan with whom you and chockmoose seem to have taken particular umbrage is canadian as far as I am aware.
Well yeah ok, Canada it's a little clearer but not much!!! +1 on the rest

 

[michaelm]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Nov 1 2009, 07:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In fact jl has pushed vr more this year than any previous rival IMO, 07 was an extreme case of technical imbalance and the previous 2 seasons have only enforced this, in fact cs hasn't even been close, points wise, at all.
Whilst I agree with you concerning 2008 and 2009 I don't really agree with this ; as I recall nicky hayden ran him fairly close in 2006

. Similarly to bike problems, injury or illness being no excuse for stoner in 2008 and 2009, whether valentino had technical problems or bad luck in 2006 and 2007 is not germane either; you can't have it both ways(EDIT although I will concede that his record apart from these years suggests he needs more bad luck than most to be derailed).

 

[Gaz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Nov 1 2009, 08:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>see gaz you aren't really debating my point at all. I was simply saying that it is absurd to say that cs is faster than everyone else in the moto gp field. Simple, you have twisted and turned as usual, but the fact remains, vr is the 2008 and 2009 800cc motogp champion. That's it simple, vr is the best currently. This is not for debate and chookmoose has a very valid point, the Aussies here look like a bunch of sore losers and it's embarassing. In fact jl has pushed vr more this year than any previous rival IMO, 07 was an extreme case of technical imbalance and the previous 2 seasons have only enforced this, in fact cs hasn't even been close, points wise, at all.

And this is getting more irrelevant and demeaning to vr's amazing achievements, so I'm representing the Aussies who acknowledge the champion and congratulate him for his success in becoming the fastest rider in the world- again,


Um, mate - glasses off for a second.

Re-read what I have typed and you will see that I actually ain't arguing or debating your point one iota in regards to the 'what if' scenario - actually, the figures support that Rossi scores more points per completed race in the 800cc era and as such any arguments need to weight that aspect up.

As for the fastest - umm, I don't raise it in my posts (but notice that again you have - why is that

) so not even going to go there as we have covered it time again and Chris Carr is the fastest on a motorcycle, or is that Tom Cruise, or did Mdub and I agree on the parachutist theory - I don't know but not even worthy of discussing.

So, I suggest you re-read my post as if you read any, yes any criticism of Rossi in that than I will state here and now, you are looking for things that aren't even there, so remove the #46 blinkers and have a good look at it - with an unbiased non preconceived idea.

Now, as for you represent the Aussies who are not of the variety that Chockmoose wishes to label - feel free and it must feel great to be so worthy, but surely they are able to speak for themselves and will (or even have) just that you did not, do not or cannot see it.

So Talpa, before you go accusing me , have another look as the only points I made aimed at you were actually the Lorenzo 25 point lead which you had incorrectly stated as 40 points, aside from that, well yeah, read it properly please.


EDIT:
Talpa, I have read, re-read, and a third time my previous post that so seems to have gotten your tastebuds up, and I will be stuffed if I can see any connection between your reply (which conveniently missed a heap of useful data by the way) and your conclusions of my post.

So I will put it down to you pre-conception that everything I type is a direct, indirect or hidden slur on Rossi - so with due respect, dream on and continue dreaming as I have and continue to give credit for his performances just as many of those that are so labelled continue to do in often overlooked commentary.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 1 2009, 08:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>All true, except that no aussies other than pinky late in the thread raised the"what if" argument that I recall, hopefully for the very good reason that it has no validity, and my reading of gaz's post is that he dismisses it as well. Gs fan with whom you and chockmoose seem to have taken particular umbrage is canadian as far as I am aware.

Thanks Michael, I thought it was actually fairly obvious what I was saying but guess I thought wrong

Once a sand-in-......-stoner-loving-....., always a sand-in-......-stoner-loving-..... I guess, but then we can speak as individuals

.






Gaz

 

[Talpa]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Nov 1 2009, 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Here, let me reply for you (even though chockmoose may feel I belong in the 'sand in ......' crowd), as I had this typed up yesterday but then thought to let you guys fire first, although I did have a picture of veins popping when you guys read the comments

It is very easy to hypothesise as to the 'what if' scenario given the absence of Stoner this year, but the truth and facts are that one cannot know with certainty where Stoner (be he fully fit, or still suffering) would have finished or indeed if he would have finished.

What also needs to be considered in any such argument/discussion is that Rossi fell during one of these races where Stoner was absent, and as such his loss of points negated Stoner's absence.

So, for a little more discussion I decided to look at 'average points per pointscoring race' of the 'top 4' in the 800cc era (just for kicks). The results were :

Rossi
Pointsore Races: 47
Total Pointscore: 900
Average Points per Race: 19.14 per race
Total non-Pointscore Races: 5

Stoner
Pointsore Races: 46
Total Pointscore: 867
Average Points per Race: 18.84
Total non-Pointscore Races: 6

Pedrosa
Pointsore Races: 44
Total Pointscore: 700
Average Points per Race: 15.90
Total non-Pointscore Races: 8

Lorenzo (2008/9 only)
Pointsore Races: 25
Total Pointscore: 435
Average Points per Race: 17.40
Total non-Pointscore Races: 9

One may draw their own conclusions but it does make interesting reading.



Now Talpa, just to debate your post a little.

CS is actually 25 points behind JL at this point and as such, if CS wins Valencia and JL DNF's, CS finishes second in the WC behind Rossi. That said, I can bet you a house that CS doesn't care about second, just as JL has no care about the place either as both only think of first (what FIAT Yamaha have to say is not known). But, it also need to be remembered that JL has had 4 non-pointscoring rides in season compared to Stoner's 3 non-pointscoring rides.

So for me irrespective of personal feelings or any patriotism, (some reading this may want to sit down for a second

) JL deserves second place in the title and personally I hope he rides smart and achieves it.

On the note you mention of the Bridgestones, it is one major reason why I have this year so enjoyed watching Lorenzo battle it with Rossi (not always successfully) as he is a novice/rookie on the Bridgestones compared to the headstart of the other top 4 (Stoner 2 years, Rossi 1 year, Pedrosa 4 races). Yes, certainly I accept that these particular Bridgestones are likely not that as used in 2007/8 by the others, but for mine the performance of Lorenzo on these tyres is quite close to that of Rossi last year when he changed - very impressive.

The 'what it' discussion that so seems to have upset chockmoose will however go on a long time due to Stoner's absence (irrespective of what people think as individuals) and is nothing new as a number of championships have had the 'question' (term used loosely) due to injuries suffered by other competitior (ie. Criville due to Doohan etc)








Gaz

How about this one????? What is the point in bringing up stats like this, when clearly the debate was on GS's post on how CS is soooo much incredibility faster than everyone else, which by the way you haven't refuted, or even mentioned the level of its ridiculousness, why is this? Why do you argue my post when you have completely inaccurate posts like this to rebut with your unending libraries of facts, figures and 'Un-bias' points..........???!!!
Really, what is the point of bringing up the whole 800cc era, when GS and myself were clearly discussing recent times......other than to improve CS's stats with 07 included. So now Mr Stats, if we are going to go back then please bring up the past 8 years for all of the riders mentioned above and lets look at those shall we? Please do, I would love to see them all there, VR's CS's, Pedders and JL's, Throw in Loris for good measure- from 2001 up to Sepang 2009-Premier class or all. After all you are responding to a 'Who is Faster?' Post aren't you? I believe you will see VR with more than double CS's Premier class wins while VR has been on the Yamaha alone, but this doesn't auger well for your 'CS is Best' disguised POV. And you can't say its an 800 thing, as these bikes and tires have changed so much since 07, you might as well bring in the 990's and smaller classes too.

So really you seem to only choose to argue against the posts which seem to be pro-Rossi, and never the ones which are equally and in this case completely false Pro-CS posts, this is a trend of yours which has been going on for quite a while, and to me at least, your bias is much more apparent than the blatant 'Pinky/Bazza' Types, only you time and time again fail to admit it.

And once again-we may where the tainted glasses, but they are made by a reputable brand with years of history and 'Argueably' the best record we have seen, ever! Which gives us good reason, and facts, to refute mentally challenged posts (GS') time and time again by Rossi Haters and more subtle Closet Rossi Haters.

And I for one would like to see you, refute posts like GS's, unless somehow you can prove that CS is the fastest rider of 2009-as GS said. But of course you can't, and I doubt we'll ever see you argue such Pro-CS posts as you certainly haven't yet!

 

[michaelm]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Nov 1 2009, 12:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You only choose to argue against the posts which seem to be pro-Rossi, and never the ones which are equally and in this case completely false Pro-CS posts, this is a trend of yours which has been going on for quite a while, and to me at least, your bias is much more apparent than the blatant 'Pinky/Bazza' Types, only you time and time again fail to admit it.

And once again-we may where the tainted glasses, but they are made by a reputable brand with years of history and 'Argueably' the best record we have seen, ever! Which gives us good reason, and facts, to refute mentally challenged posts (GS') time and time again by Rossi Haters and more subtle Closet Rossi Haters.

And I for one would like to see you, refute posts like GS's, unless somehow you can prove that CS is the fastest rider of 2009-as GS said. But of course you can't, and I doubt we'll ever see you argue such Pro-CS posts as you certainly haven't yet!
Not to put words into gary's mouth, but he may feel that valentino isn't in much need of defence at present , and seldom has been, whilst casey is. Doubtless I have further unconscious bias on top of my acknowledged bias as a casey fan, but I think most such posts of gary's like mine are in response to attacks on stoner.

 

[Talpa]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 1 2009, 10:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not to put words into gary's mouth, but he may feel that valentino isn't in much need of defence at present , and seldom has been, whilst casey is. Doubtless I have further unconscious bias on top of my acknowledged bias as a casey fan, but I think most such posts of gary's like mine are in response to attacks on stoner.

In all fairness, while I understand this, can you see how Pro CS posts which are beyond the relms of lunacy go unchecked by Gaz, whilst anything (and more accurate-less fanatical) Pro-Rossi from myself and others are constantly under the microscope-is difficult not be considered anything but bias......

 

[Keshav]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Oct 31 2009, 11:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So you are saying that after a major illness he returns and "only" comes in second (after months of layoff no less) to a guy that was at the top of his game, in race shape, on almost his home track, on the finest bike on the grid (developed apparently by Rossi and Burgess) and what? That was absolutely astonishing that's what it was. FYI he beat Rossi by over 17 seconds that race. In Australia it was clear he was the better rider. He on the Ducati (she-..... devil of a bike) and Rossi (apparently the better man) on a clearly superior machine. Last race Rossi had a title to put away so I can fully understand him not racing just placing but did you catch the slow mo's of Stoner in the rain? Swantz should be under his bed. Actually, it's funny, because who was actually challenging him this year? My whole point is that you can't crow that you won a great championship against a crew of guys that couldn't beat you under any circumstance. The guy that could have beat Rossi was home on the couch through no fault of his own. And about the numbers game look I'm not going into all the stats to argue every corner or race track conditions for every weekend this year because it doesn't matter now. Rossi won the championship. But then he had <u>zero competition</u> so of course that would be the obvious outcome. Who else threatened him? Anyone? No. No one. Big win. And here is the respect I have for Rossi. I'll bet he felt hollow that he didn't have a real challenge. He would be the last guy to want a cakewalk. His fans? Oh .... how they want one...so bad.

As much as I've liked KS over the years - I have to admit that much of the admiration for him is based on the same things that others like him for, mainly his insane cowboy heroics, his general good-'ol-boy attitude and his overcoming so many injuries and for the fun of watching him battle it out with Rainey and the gang.

That said, it should be pointed out, Schwantz's flare and style aside, it took him 7 years to win his one and only championship, albeit on the low-budget Suzuki. Whereas Stoner won his first championship in only his second year (his first year on the .....-On-The-Rag Ducati) in MotoGp with a new crew, and I'd hazard to say there are few people here, even amongst the haters, who will bet against CS gaining at least one more championship in the next year or two. So fan or not, I think Schwantz, whose accomplishments are soon to be eclipsed by Stoner's, should really STFU, lest he be lumped in with all the other youth-envious, grumpy old-.... ex-champs who always say stupid .... every time a microphone is in the vicinity of their face.

 

[michaelm]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Nov 1 2009, 11:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In all fairness, while I understand this, can you see how Pro CS posts which are beyond the relms of lunacy go unchecked by Gaz, whilst anything (and more accurate-less fanatical) Pro-Rossi from myself and others are constantly under the microscope-is difficult not be considered anything but bias......
Sure, and ( not with reference to gary) it is hard to justify any criticism of valentino's performance in the last 2 years particularly last year (with regard to stoner anyway) when he rode at or near his peak, basically made one and a half mistakes all year, and clearly had casey's measure for significant parts of the season.

For what it is worth I spent quite a bit of time on here disagreeing with some of the more outlandish pro-stoner and anti-rossi statements in 2007, which I found embarassing and unnecessary particularly given that casey's performance at the time spoke for itself. Most of the remaining aussie pro-stoner/ stoner fan posters like gary and I are diehards who have stayed here with casey not going so well, so perhaps you can understand some excitement at a fairly successful return which did not seem inevitable during his absence, and some sense of vindication that varied fairly spiteful and never obviously well-founded speculation about his health may be in the process of proving to be untrue.

 

[MdubSTYLIE]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Oct 31 2009, 11:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So you are saying that after a major illness he returns and "only" comes in second (after months of layoff no less) to a guy that was at the top of his game, in race shape, on almost his home track, on the finest bike on the grid (developed apparently by Rossi and Burgess) and what? That was absolutely astonishing that's what it was.

A major illness??You make it sound like he overcame cancer or something. And to be fair it is not like he needs to be in the best shape of his life to twist the throttle and lean a bit. We are not talking about soccer or triathlons. People ride sick and injured all the time rdp managed to race half the year with a broken ankle. So quit giving credit where credit is not due.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Oct 31 2009, 11:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>FYI he beat Rossi by over 17 seconds that race. In Australia it was clear he was the better rider. He on the Ducati (she-..... devil of a bike) and Rossi (apparently the better man) on a clearly superior machine. Last race Rossi had a title to put away so I can fully understand him not racing just placing but did you catch the slow mo's of Stoner in the rain? Swantz should be under his bed. Actually, it's funny, because who was actually challenging him this year? My whole point is that you can't crow that you won a great championship against a crew of guys that couldn't beat you under any circumstance. The guy that could have beat Rossi was home on the couch through no fault of his own. And about the numbers game look I'm not going into all the stats to argue every corner or race track conditions for every weekend this year because it doesn't matter now. Rossi won the championship. But then he had <u>zero competition</u> so of course that would be the obvious outcome. Who else threatened him? Anyone? No. No one. Big win. And here is the respect I have for Rossi. I'll bet he felt hollow that he didn't have a real challenge. He would be the last guy to want a cakewalk. His fans? Oh .... how they want one...so bad.
You are right the guy that could of beat rossi was on the couch, but to say it wasn't his fault is ridicules. Whos fault was it then? It was he and the peoples around hims choice, because he was acting like a foolish little baby throwing fits and ..... He missed three races over a two month period with an illness that no one even knows what it was, that will forever make him the biggest ..... on the grid.

Let go of what could have been cs fans. You are just being sore losers. but I guess asking anything else from the stoner fans would be asking to much. God you guys are more annoying than finger nails on a chalkboard.

 

[chopperman]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Nov 1 2009, 03:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So you are saying that after a major illness he returns and "only" comes in second (after months of layoff no less) to a guy that was at the top of his game, in race shape, on almost his home track, on the finest bike on the grid (developed apparently by Rossi and Burgess) and what? That was absolutely astonishing that's what it was. FYI he beat Rossi by over 17 seconds that race. In Australia it was clear he was the better rider. He on the Ducati (she-..... devil of a bike) and Rossi (apparently the better man) on a clearly superior machine. Last race Rossi had a title to put away so I can fully understand him not racing just placing but did you catch the slow mo's of Stoner in the rain? Swantz should be under his bed. Actually, it's funny, because who was actually challenging him this year? My whole point is that you can't crow that you won a great championship against a crew of guys that couldn't beat you under any circumstance. The guy that could have beat Rossi was home on the couch through no fault of his own. And about the numbers game look I'm not going into all the stats to argue every corner or race track conditions for every weekend this year because it doesn't matter now. Rossi won the championship. But then he had <u>zero competition</u> so of course that would be the obvious outcome. Who else threatened him? Anyone? No. No one. Big win. And here is the respect I have for Rossi. I'll bet he felt hollow that he didn't have a real challenge. He would be the last guy to want a cakewalk. His fans? Oh .... how they want one...so bad.
im just replying to your factually incorrect post.
you said
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>You only have to look at the last 3 races to see that nobody, nobody, can beat Stoner when he is healthy. No one. It wouldn't matter what bike you put him on. Don't be so delusional
you mentioned the last 3 races, you said he was fit, you said that no one could beat him and these last 3 races proved this. i pointed out estoril was one of the last 3 races of which you speak and he did in fact get beaten so you post was .........

 

[Gaz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Nov 1 2009, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How about this one????? What is the point in bringing up stats like this, when clearly the debate was on GS's post on how CS is soooo much incredibility faster than everyone else, which by the way you haven't refuted, or even mentioned the level of its ridiculousness, why is this? Why do you argue my post when you have completely inaccurate posts like this to rebut with your unending libraries of facts, figures and 'Un-bias' points..........???!!!

FFS Talpa, to borrow a Curvism remove the sand from your ...... will ya.

First off, no I have not refted but suggest you return many posts ago to my comments on CS as you didn't like them at that time so wont again - so no repeating to continue prolonging your festival. I suggest you read one of my first lines - the one where I mentioned you guys basically salivating because of GS' post - you seem to read that as me wanting to rebut your reply, but hey, again you read wrong as you seem to.

Why did I not rebut GS's post - well I knew you guys would so I left it, but I do rebut the point that if CS was fit then he woudl have beaten VR by using average points per completed 800cc race which are relevant as they show VR earning more points per race than did CS.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Nov 1 2009, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Really, what is the point of bringing up the whole 800cc era, when GS and myself were clearly discussing recent times......other than to improve CS's stats with 07 included. So now Mr Stats, if we are going to go back then please bring up the past 8 years for all of the riders mentioned above and lets look at those shall we? Please do, I would love to see them all there, VR's CS's, Pedders and JL's, Throw in Loris for good measure- from 2001 up to Sepang 2009-Premier class or all. After all you are responding to a 'Who is Faster?' Post aren't you? I believe you will see VR with more than double CS's Premier class wins while VR has been on the Yamaha alone, but this doesn't auger well for your 'CS is Best' disguised POV. And you can't say its an 800 thing, as these bikes and tires have changed so much since 07, you might as well bring in the 990's and smaller classes too.

Correct me but aren't the 800cc the modern era?

Again, your yellow glasses with #46 in them appear to have you believing that I am trying to make CS look better than VR - my answer to that is you sir are a fool.

The stats as pointed out are based on teh 800cc era because that is the valid period in time.

To compare 990cc, 250cc and 125cc history is irrelevant within context of the 800cc era.

Again, and I will place this in capitals for you 'WHERE THE FARK DO I STATE THAT CS IS BEST'?

FFS, I am not even arguing it you fool, I actually posted supporting the assertion that CS would NOT, see that word NOT have won the title in 2009 if fit and you seem to want to take issue. You do like to argue just for the sake of it, don't you.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Nov 1 2009, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So really you seem to only choose to argue against the posts which seem to be pro-Rossi, and never the ones which are equally and in this case completely false Pro-CS posts, this is a trend of yours which has been going on for quite a while, and to me at least, your bias is much more apparent than the blatant 'Pinky/Bazza' Types, only you time and time again fail to admit it.

Wrong again - read my posts on Biaggi and some others but yes, I am more prevalent at the moment because of unfounded accusation made by yourself and others about Stoner.

Are you any different?

Where are your posts in support of other riders called or alleged to gbe 'gay' etc, again Talpa, pot, kettle black.

And as fpr my allegiances, they aren't to Stoner but are against people who seem to want to make totally unfounded allegations against riders.

And yes, I can see you frothing at the mouth about my not jumping to Rossi's defence and the reason is simple, there are many people, far more eloquent than I who do such a good job of that (V, Roger etc). But there again I suggest that you look and you will find some defence of him in my posts in the past, but I guess taht may also just ruin your theory.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Nov 1 2009, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And once again-we may where the tainted glasses, but they are made by a reputable brand with years of history and 'Argueably' the best record we have seen, ever! Which gives us good reason, and facts, to refute mentally challenged posts (GS') time and time again by Rossi Haters and more subtle Closet Rossi Haters.

But aren't your posts as 'mentally challenged' because of your bias?

If by 'mentally challenged' you mean people who have an opinion not approved by Talpa, then there are a lot out there I would suggest as this place has a lot of members and it seems that only you takes such umbrage to open minded commentary in support, yes support of your loved one.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Nov 1 2009, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And I for one would like to see you, refute posts like GS's, unless somehow you can prove that CS is the fastest rider of 2009-as GS said. But of course you can't, and I doubt we'll ever see you argue such Pro-CS posts as you certainly haven't yet!

I again Talpa, you bring up the 'fastest'.

Now, you seem to want me to support everything others say and they whinge like you have sand in your ...... that I dont rebut what others say.

It is not my job or requirement to support or debate each post made by another member to which you take offence, so no, not doing your job for you.








Gaz

 

[Gaz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 1 2009, 11:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not to put words into gary's mouth, but he may feel that valentino isn't in much need of defence at present , and seldom has been, whilst casey is. Doubtless I have further unconscious bias on top of my acknowledged bias as a casey fan, but I think most such posts of gary's like mine are in response to attacks on stoner.

Michael, again spot-on but Talpa cannot or will not see it.

The need to defend Rossi is something that is not really necessary as his record is superlative so I just don't unless there are scurrilous rumours etc like the 'gay' ones, the rest the books speak for themselves.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Nov 1 2009, 11:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In all fairness, while I understand this, can you see how Pro CS posts which are beyond the relms of lunacy go unchecked by Gaz, whilst anything (and more accurate-less fanatical) Pro-Rossi from myself and others are constantly under the microscope-is difficult not be considered anything but bias......

The answer again is that the post by GS is not my post to debate just because he says something that you may take offence to and I may well find wrong.

But, and guess what - I will again try to explain my post to you as you seem to be having some difficulty.

The post is about stats and the what-if argument - the fastest has already been done to death.

If one is to play the 'what if' game, you need to be fair about it as it cannot be one-sided - do we agree?

If so, then VR did not score in 2 races this year and as such you award him his 'average points per race completed' score - so another 38 or so points - is that understood?

Then, you do the same for CS which would mean another 54 or so points, JL another 68 or so points and so on.

Clearly on that scenario VR's nearest competitor would have been JL and not CS as the fact, yes fact is that CS competed whilst ill and that affected his pointscore (just as JL riding injured, DP etc).

See, the post actually rebuts the CS would have won theory as you cannot replay what has occurred and if one is to say 'but he missed 3 races', one has to say that VR mised 2, JL 4 etc.


Now and aside - I notice you don't take umbrage with everything, why is that - do you agree with it (ie. The JL comments)

I also notice that you do not comment on my comments regarding Stoner not deserving to beat JL, but then I guess that isn't argument worthy.








Gaz

 

[Gaz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 1 2009, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>For what it is worth I spent quite a bit of time on here disagreeing with some of the more outlandish pro-stoner and anti-rossi statements in 2007, which I found embarassing and unnecessary particularly given that casey's performance at the time spoke for itself. Most of the remaining aussie pro-stoner/ stoner fan posters like gary and I are diehards who have stayed here with casey not going so well, so perhaps you can understand some excitement at a fairly successful return which did not seem inevitable during his absence, and some sense of vindication that varied fairly spiteful and never obviously well-founded speculation about his health may be in the process of proving to be untrue.

Ditto but I guess it won't be believed.

I often argued against the likes of CSCVAW and others for the manner in which they carried on in their adulation of all things Stoner which far exceeds anything of today (Talpa, you think today is outlandish - refer back to those type of posts).

If I recall correctly Talpa, there is at least one well respected member on this forum who has stated that it was these fans that turned him against Stoner, not the type of fans with whom you are arguing today, it was far far worse.






Gaz

 

[Gaz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Nov 1 2009, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Let go of what could have been cs fans. You are just being sore losers. but I guess asking anything else from the stoner fans would be asking to much. God you guys are more annoying than finger nails on a chalkboard.

Dub, in seriousness and you probably consider me one of the sore losers (I sure know of someone who does

) it happens each and every year really doesn't it when a small section of fans of vanquished riders ask the 'what if' questions.

But, for every sore loser there are many more accepting fans who realise that the better person/team/rider won the championship and that they woudl have had to overcome their own obstacles as well and as such, no amount of 'what if' can take that championship away.

As the old saying goes - titles aren't won on what ifs, but are won on I dids

Tis all cool though as for every sore loser, there is a sore winner just ready to remind you.

Gaz

 

[MdubSTYLIE]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Nov 1 2009, 06:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dub, in seriousness and you probably consider me one of the sore losers (I sure know of someone who does

) it happens each and every year really doesn't it when a small section of fans of vanquished riders ask the 'what if' questions.

But, for every sore loser there are many more accepting fans who realise that the better person/team/rider won the championship and that they woudl have had to overcome their own obstacles as well and as such, no amount of 'what if' can take that championship away.

As the old saying goes - titles aren't won on what ifs, but are won on I dids

Tis all cool though as for every sore loser, there is a sore winner just ready to remind you.

Gaz
Actually gaz I don't put you in that category. Your in your own category, although a lot of the time you agree with what they are selling. But you are also right that not all cs fans are like this, I am speaking to the ones that are. Like that ....... loon that came in with the "casey is a track god" blast.

As for what category I put you in? I would have to summon the powers of tom and his google-mobile along with babel and his eagle eyes to to figure that one out. But thats why I like you.

 

[Gaz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Nov 1 2009, 11:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Actually gaz I don't put you in that category. Your in your own category, although a lot of the time you agree with what they are selling. But you are also right that not all cs fans are like this, I am speaking to the ones that are. Like that ....... loon that came in with the "casey is a track god" blast.

Mate, I agree and this is why I often don't bother arguing against the nonsensical pro-Stoner posts (which seems to upset Talpa a bit) - what is there to argue when stuff is so blatantly nonsensical (and that goes the way of many riders/fans as well).


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Nov 1 2009, 11:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As for what category I put you in? I would have to summon the powers of tom and his google-mobile along with babel and his eagle eyes to to figure that one out. But thats why I like you.

Glad you didn't throw Pinky and his HongKong boys in there - whew

Gaz

 

[Talpa]

dummie spits all round, must have struck a chord!!! Well mate you do spend most of your time here debuting, rebuting pro vr posts and no time on pro cs ones, this is fact. And an excuse like 'i was waiting for you' doesn't seem in your character judging by your joy at jumping at us vr fans very quickly, stupid vr glasses abuse doesn't work on those who admit their allegence time and time again, only on those that don't,

you have also acosted me several times on personal abuse and now your joining in nicely, oh the hypocrisy!!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Nov 2 2009, 08:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>FFS Talpa, to borrow a Curvism remove the sand from your ...... will ya.

First off, no I have not refted but suggest you return many posts ago to my comments on CS as you didn't like them at that time so wont again - so no repeating to continue prolonging your festival. I suggest you read one of my first lines - the one where I mentioned you guys basically salivating because of GS' post - you seem to read that as me wanting to rebut your reply, but hey, again you read wrong as you seem to.

Why did I not rebut GS's post - well I knew you guys would so I left it, but I do rebut the point that if CS was fit then he woudl have beaten VR by using average points per completed 800cc race which are relevant as they show VR earning more points per race than did CS.




Correct me but aren't the 800cc the modern era?

Again, your yellow glasses with #46 in them appear to have you believing that I am trying to make CS look better than VR - my answer to that is you sir are a fool.

The stats as pointed out are based on teh 800cc era because that is the valid period in time.

To compare 990cc, 250cc and 125cc history is irrelevant within context of the 800cc era.

Again, and I will place this in capitals for you 'WHERE THE FARK DO I STATE THAT CS IS BEST'?

FFS, I am not even arguing it you fool, I actually posted supporting the assertion that CS would NOT, see that word NOT have won the title in 2009 if fit and you seem to want to take issue. You do like to argue just for the sake of it, don't you.



Wrong again - read my posts on Biaggi and some others but yes, I am more prevalent at the moment because of unfounded accusation made by yourself and others about Stoner.

Are you any different?

Where are your posts in support of other riders called or alleged to gbe 'gay' etc, again Talpa, pot, kettle black.

And as fpr my allegiances, they aren't to Stoner but are against people who seem to want to make totally unfounded allegations against riders.

And yes, I can see you frothing at the mouth about my not jumping to Rossi's defence and the reason is simple, there are many people, far more eloquent than I who do such a good job of that (V, Roger etc). But there again I suggest that you look and you will find some defence of him in my posts in the past, but I guess taht may also just ruin your theory.




But aren't your posts as 'mentally challenged' because of your bias?

If by 'mentally challenged' you mean people who have an opinion not approved by Talpa, then there are a lot out there I would suggest as this place has a lot of members and it seems that only you takes such umbrage to open minded commentary in support, yes support of your loved one.





I again Talpa, you bring up the 'fastest'.

Now, you seem to want me to support everything others say and they whinge like you have sand in your ...... that I dont rebut what others say.

It is not my job or requirement to support or debate each post made by another member to which you take offence, so no, not doing your job for you.








Gaz

 

[michaelm]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Nov 2 2009, 12:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>dummie spits all round, must have struck a chord!!! Well mate you do spend most of your time here debuting, rebuting pro vr posts and no time on pro cs ones, this is fact. And an excuse like 'i was waiting for you' doesn't seem in your character judging by your joy at jumping at us vr fans very quickly, stupid vr glasses abuse doesn't work on those who admit their allegence time and time again, only on those that don't,
I think gaz and I, and you are working from our own perspectives, which don't overlap very significantly. I am now convinced you are a genuine fan of the sport, and a genuine if more than commonly enthusiastic fan of valentino's. From my point of view what gary and I do is rebut criticism of stoner rather than praise of valentino, the former being far more prominent than the latter in your early posts. If you regard any praise of stoner as implicitly being criticism of valentino, which sometimes seems to be the case, then genuine though we may all be there is not much room for meaningful discussion. I actually did think bunyip's post was over the top if not entirely serious and disagreed with the "fastest" part of it on here. Gs fan's post which particularly incurred your wrath was mainly in praise of stoner, admittedly with a dig at rossi fans if not rossi himself, and whilst I agree it would have been ungracious from an aussie stoner fan he is neither and hence probably entitled to express his opinion; both gaz and I disagreed with the "what if" component which was heavily qualified in any case.