Arrabbiata1
Blue Smoker
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2008
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- 6,925
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WAIT! Then what EXACTLY will we be debating if we are in agreement?!? I accept you concede that in your words "none of them" crashes were CAUSED by equipment; I therefore find no need to duel as this is the point of contention. The voice of reason has spoken in no uncertain words.
CASE CLOSED
Precisely what I have been at pains to explain to you - see highlighted sentence in the post below from last July...
I really don't understand any of this preoccupation/obsession with the RCV being the 'best bike'. Since the end of the 990 era, throughout the dismal 800cc formula and now with the advent of the 1 litre bikes the balance of power has vacillated largely between Honda and Yamaha, also responding to changes in the rules and tyre provision, but overall (bar the disastrous Pedrocycle) these differences have been minute. I say this, perhaps because I wasn't privy to any of the assertions supposedly made by Krop, but ultimately I fail to see why all this even 'matters'. Last year, the RCV was a better package all round...this year it isn't, and given the circuits to come, the riders concerned, the variables in tyre preferences, it all makes for a fascinating dynamic.
Based upon my own observations and from the comments that I've either seen or heard by Marquez, he didn't like the 2015 bike, and voiced this immediately at the Valencia test last November. That simply, it doesn't work as well for him as the 2014 machine. As I've said before, and I may well be wrong, but the higher temperatures at the subsequent test at Sepang may have softened the package, both in terms of the greater flex in the chassis and the motor, but that is entirely my own speculation. COTA ridiculously favours the Honda, to a far greater extent than even Sachsenring IMO, and also likely mitigated the 'problems' earlier in the season that Marquez claimed were afflicting him.
Given that Marquez rides the front harder than anyone, the combination of engine character/chassis balance/electronics (call it what you will, delete as applicable...I don't really care) appears to me to have been transferring excessive load onto the front during corner entry - particularly once rear grip is compromised. And where the rear grip diminishes, instead of slewing/kicking sideways like last year - it instead tends to have been snapping back violently. At Mugello, he crashed out loading the front trying to match the pace late in the race, however at Qatar, Argentina and Catalunya, he made a series of unforced errors - and I've yet to see anyone dispute that. He's a racer and he's human...which is after all something that all bike racing enthusiasts tend to celebrate over their contemporary F1 counterparts.
Marc requested a return to the 2014 chassis and since then, at both Assen and Sachsenring the bike has looked settled, far smoother and it appears to be answering to his will - although oddly, since then his approach seems to draw more from the Lawson school of late than the Schwantz rodeo ride that we are accustomed to seeing.
In '06 Rossi reverted to the previous years chassis which revived his fortunes and in the same year, HRC did its best to sabotage Nicky's title bid with the inexorable raft of parts on the EVO machine, (although it's worth pointing out that the imposition of the dodgy clutch was a myth and his own preference). HRC, pride themselves on their progressive philosophy as we were all reminded by Colin and Hodgy during today's BT coverage...(yeah, so progressive that they've flung last years frame into the most expensive race bike on the planet). Riders constantly push for new parts ( be careful what you wish for Cal), and factories enforce testing and development, the sport is in continual flux... but when something works well, conversely those riders become acutely conservative by nature. I still believe that the Honda is a tricky machine to exploit to its maximum, excessively complex in comparison to the M1 and maybe, Marc nudged development in a direction that pushed those parameters beyond the reach of even his high risk riding style...much like Casey banished the Desmo far from the reach of mortal man.
Top riders can and do challenge the factories. The arrival of Rossi at Yamaha saw four bespoke designs by Yoda which he had carte blanche to choose from in favour of the machine that practically broke Barros's back and busted his balls the season before...not to mention later subverting an entire brand and race DNA at Ducati. Something as simple in comparison as substituting a chassis in favour of an earlier or familiar iteration is not unusual .. and it very often works. Remember Rainey in '93, bolting his factory motor into an old production version Roc frame? Doohan simply used to intimidate the HRC hierarchy and threaten engineers until they bent to his will. Marquez, meanwhile voiced similar concerns about the new bike. He's reverted to last years chassis and both watching the bike on track at both Assen and Sachsenring, and based upon his results it's working.
I'm glad.
Who gives a .... about what Krop said or journo's pandering to HRC...there are many that don't. Anyone with all but a cursory interest in this sport understands the inherent inequities if not the mechanics the machinations and mutability. Marquez was flawless this weekend - give the guy some Kudos, some credit, - he's got what he needs, be that psychologically or physically and he's delivered in response...mellow, and enjoy the second half of the season.
Our dispute comps - irrespective of Marquez, is your contention that in absolute terms and without exception, the factory RCV is by far the best package this year. I don't agree. Pre Assen this certainly wasn't the case and the differing charactersitics between the M1 and the RCV; the respective rider styles, the tyres, circuits, the philosophy and paradigms underpinning either factory development strategy create for a fascinating flux in fortunes both between and within the factory teams. The very idea of homogeneity is itself flawed. Pedrosa's RCV has evolved separately to Marquez's whist the M1s of Rossi and Lorenzo differ both radically and diametrically. Although either the M1 or the RCV may prevail on any given race weekend due to a myriad of interwoven variables the overall differences in the two marques and the associated comparative advantages are not only in flux, but are not as pronounced as you suppose.