Round 12 Silverstone: Practice, Qualifying, Race

Keshav · Sep 3, 2015

JPSLotus said:
lol what Kesh?

I don't understand you. I never claimed the RCV rode itself, what I did actually claim was that you can't beat the best if you haven't got the bike to do it. There's nothing even ridiculous about that claim. You need to have a weapon to fight with. That's been true of motor racing since the 19th century lol.

Us only saying it's a .... bike? I NEVER EVEN CLAIMED THE BIKE WAS .....

I've been defending the bike this whole time. I said most of the problems are not with the bike, but the guy RIDING the bike.

For the guy who is always singing about everyone else resorting to straw men, you do it quite a bit. Holy crap, Jums and I have been stating that the bike is far better than anyone else will give it credit for. All I stated is everyone and their mother has said the RCV is garbage, and I keep looking at the results to make sure I'm not imagining race victories achieved on a bike that supposedly makes the Aprilia look like a worldbeater if Kropo and the rest are to be believed.

I said that MM was quick to say there was a braking issue with the bike, and I said ........, who brakes in the middle of a 70MPH corner with their knee down, fully committed? Then I said that Kropo was blaming engine braking to which I said MORE .........

Arrab and I had a nice discussion with no straw men (which is all your post is made of) about the track surface at Silverstone. In fact, I distinctly remember being the one who said, well what if the bumps at Copse which are quite bad was responsible for MM losing the bike because he altered his line slightly through the corner as opposed to previous laps and basically misjudged his ability to successfully take the corner at speed in those conditions?

Here is the MotoGP spread of equipment:

1 & 2) M1 or RCV depending on the track.

He didn't like the 2015 "improvements" and said he could do better with the 2014 iteration. And on the whole - given that Honda has not entirely given him the bike at the specs that he feels works for him - he has done much better riding the bike with the older frame.

I'll say this... Honda will get it right. They always do eventually, and come next year.... Marquez will be fighting for the championship again, regardless of how much any of us don't care for him.

Everyone else.

I said only in la-la land is a top 2 bike considered a piece of .....

MM's crashes are all of his own doing, not a .... bike as is being claimed by Kropo. Maybe Kropo can validate his claims all while telling me to go .... myself. How about it Krops?

And how would you know what a rider of that caliber does with the brake in the middle of any given turn? Have you ever ridden a MotoGp bike? Lots of riders talk about using the rear brake to settle down a rear end that is not well seated. It's one of the most common techniques that rider learn to use when they first learn to ride. Really - you should stick to talking about cars.

Keshav · Sep 3, 2015

Jumkie said:
Lotus, I think you may have misunderstood Kesh (admittedly he does write in code) but what he is saying is that the bike is not literally a pile of feces. No really, he is calling ........ on our specific word "....". He can't understand that we are speaking figuratively and sarcastically to make a point. You and I understand that by calling the RCV "...." we are being sarcastic, meaning its superb whereby we are calling ........ on those claim equipment irregularities are to blame for Marcs crashes. And he defending his position that he has not called the RCV "...." because despite implying it was party to blame for Marcs woes, he has not specifically used the word "....". Yes, that is Kesh for you. He tactically can weaselout of the message he has suggested or conveyed by saying "I didn't say that."

Im laughing because he claimed Marc had "evolved" after a rare race that he didnt crash this year, then Marc destroyed Kesh's assessment by crashing the next race. Haha. Now look at what Kesh has said after a Marc crash, he said the lad hasnt 'evolved' but Kesh will claim he did not say that because this time he didn't use the WORD "evolve". Though what he said now is that Marc has not made the small incremental improvements ("inability to realize ...smaller incremental improvements" ) or in other words EVOLVED. Kesh prose.

One crash or two crashes do not cancel out my assessment. You can say that - but your inability to admit when you're wrong - isn't the same thing as being right. The fact that JP laughs at everything you say - doesn't actually substantiate anything other than you both share the same prejudices and the inability to back off from an untenable argument. Two wrong-headednesses don't make a right. Even the guy you most respect - has called you out on your nonsense - but for whatever reason you seem to think you can overwhelm me with your grandiose ........ - but that ain't happening.

If you can't produce facts to back up your claims - then stop wasting my time with pettifogging and sophomoric insults. This isn't high school and you can't bully me into saying you are right - when you are wrong and haven't said anything of any real substance over the length of your last 30 or so posts. You need to stop drinking your own Kool-Aid.

michaelm · Sep 3, 2015

Jumkie said:
With all due respect my friend which of these crashes would you like to point out was caused by an irregularity of equipment?

Sure, he crashes mostly due to rider error, maybe both Valentino even at 36 and Jorge are actually intrinsically better than him as total packages when judgement is included, but this doesn't exclude the possibility that he is making errors at least partly because he can't accept anything other than being totally dominant, which along with some luck the bike he had in comparison with the Yamahas allowed him to be previously. Perhaps the bike is merely somewhat better or equal now and was vastly better before.

I could ask you in return which other riders are actually thriving on the Honda; certainly not Pedrosa, a perennial podium getter and previous winner of 20 odd premier class races, or Redding who is switching to a Ducati, or Crutchlow or any of the open class riders. Bradl meanwhile who has switched to a different bike is crashing a lot less this season.

Jumkie · Sep 3, 2015

Kesh, which crashed would you like to debate was caused by an inadequate faulty equipment on Marc's motorcycle?

Or do you intend to keep using the tactic of saying nothing by putting words into a post. We have a very specific question to debate here. I suspect none will take me up on it because again it's not something that can be argued successfully using reasonable logic.

Jumkie · Sep 3, 2015

michaelm said:
Sure, he crashes mostly due to rider error, maybe both Valentino even at 36 and Jorge are actually intrinsically better than him as total packages when judgement is included, but this doesn't exclude the possibility that he is making errors at least partly because he can't accept anything other than being totally dominant, which along with some luck the bike he had in comparison with the Yamahas allowed him to be previously. Perhaps the bike is merely somewhat better or equal now and was vastly better before.

I could ask you in return which other riders are actually thriving on the Honda; certainly not Pedrosa, a perennial podium getter and previous winner of 20 odd premier class races, or Redding who is switching to a Ducati, or Crutchlow or any of the open class riders. Brads who hadovefbyo a different bike is meanwhile crashing a lot less this season.

With all due respect which crash would you like to point out was caused by an equipment irregularity of Marcs motorcycle?

Forgive me but I don't want to go down the road of talking about peripherals because it seems that this is what has disallowed us to cut to the chase. We end up with tangent which seem to lend credibility to this notion without substantiation. Those with the opinion that the motorcycle had even the slightest fault in the crash have promulgated this notion without substantial validation. A notion that seems to have grown legs and generally accepted as truth. It somehow crept into the narrative this year, and now its an element of common analysis when discussing Marcs season. How much of his crash was not his fault but equipment irregularities is a common and acceptable conception. Even you have argued the motorcycle is in some way responsible, regardles of how downplayed you may describe it. So I've decided to challenge this notion by specifically debating a crash in question. I suspect it cannot be done because as I've already said it's an untenable position.

michaelm · Sep 3, 2015

Jumkie said:
With all due respect which crash would you like to point out was caused by an equipment irregularity of Marcs motorcycle?

Forgive me but I don't want to go down the road of talking about peripherals because it seems that this is what has disallowed us to cut to the chase. We end up with tangent which seem to lend credibility to this notion without substantiation. Those with the opinion that the motorcycle had even the slightest fault in the crash have promulgated this notion without substantial validation. A notion that seems to have grown legs and generally accepted as truth. It somehow crept into the narrative this year, and now its an element of common analysis when discussing Marcs season. How much of his crash was not his fault but equipment irregularities is a common and acceptable conception. Even you have argued the motorcycle is in some way responsible, regardles of how downplayed you may describe it. So I've decided to challenge this notion by specifically debating a crash in question. I suspect it cannot be done because as I've already said it's an untenable position.

Hey Jumkie, I enjoy this forum significantly because of your involvement, have always enjoyed our discussions, and often agree with your opinions as I do in general in regard to MM.

I simply don't understand your vehement monochromaticity on this issue.

If you wish to argue that MM is fast but a careless ........ as a rider being found out now in the absence of previous good luck there is doubtless ample evidence.

I don't understand however why this precludes the possibility that Honda may have produced a somewhat difficult bike this year, for which there is ample historical precedent, and furthermore why the performance of other riders (basically all other riders of the bike) is irrelevant to this question. As I have said, if this is the case it is MM's problem and significantly his responsibility anyway, he is their anointed one.

I am also probably coloured because of my previous associations, arguments and opinions and endeavouring to remain internally consistent myself, given that both of Casey Stoner's world championships were attributed in some quarters to bikes without faults. A bike imo can be close to invincible if ridden to advantage without it being easy to ride in the required fashion.

Jumkie · Sep 3, 2015

Likewise friend, ive been an admirer of your contributions. But I feel this notion that Marc's bike is somehow responsible for his crashes has got out of hand. As I already said, much to my astonishment how the masses have become conditioned to accept an element of any analysis of his season as correlation to equipment inadequacy. Yet I cannot find one race crash that can be argued was caused by equipment inadequacy. To me this notion has neen fabricated out of thin air, aided by Marc apologia and succors such as Kropo etal (no disrespect to him) and by Marc himself who has employed the not so unique tactic of blaming his equipment and disseminating via willing and gullible media outlets. You ask why im vehemently monochromatic on challenging this notion, its because this very point has been the shifting sand upon a house of cards has been built. Again, which crash would you like to point out was caused by inadequacy of Marc's equipment? What mechanical malfunction or faulty equipment or component has not performed properly that caused a crash? Point out which MotoGP bike on the grid is "easy" to ride and would mitigate a rider error to save him from a crash? If there is some supposed irregularity or inadequacy on the factory RCV, then by what multiplier factor can be estimated to be worse for the rest of the grid of machines and teams given the indisputable fact they lack the techs and resources to mitigate this unsubstantiated discrepancies? You see, everything hinges on this notion that there is some intermittent irregularity, I dare say equipment failure on Marc's machine to partially or completely account for his crashes. Therefore lets target the crux of such an occurrence. Which crash would u like to point out was caused by equipment for Marc?

It can't be done my friend, and therefore the smoke and mirrors house of cards quickly begins to emerge for what it is, a fabricated unsubstantiated myth.

Jumkie · Sep 3, 2015

Mike, food for thought regarding your question about thriving RCVs.

Would you agree that Ducati in reality deserve their "factory 2" classification, as they are running under a different set of rules and clearly were allowed concessions for performance leveling purposes? If you do, and you should, then here is something interesting:

If you eliminate the anomaly that is Ducati, as clearly their finishing order is inflated in the championship by their concessions, then a RCV has either won the race or stood on the podium every single race this year, and sometimes 2 of the 3, where Pedrosa and Crutchlow have been in the top 3. Same applies for qualifying, where again the RCV has been on pole multiple times, every opportunity in the top 3 and sometimes 2 of 3, and 1-2 (with the exception of Catalunya where believe it or not Suzuki was 1-2).

Now that is "thriving". And I reject the idea that Crutchlow's record can be an indication of the RCV's crash prone deficiency based on his ample gravel record because we would need to revise then that the M1, the GP14, and the RCV are ...... unfettered hazards because he has crashed on it. Redding has no where near the support of the factory riders, and his satellite bike DNF record can hardly be correlated to the deficiency of the factory supported machine unless you concede to a multiplier factor for other satellite and "factory" machines; where if we are to use as a correlation, then the Espargaro's brothers crash record should merit their machines to be black flagged immediately. Lets shelve the DNFs of the Aprillia and Suzuki, though I must have missed the pages and posts where the machines were blamed for their rider's crashes--as seem to be the standard this year to assess the respective machine of one Marc Marquez. If the bikes caused crashes, then how did Aprillia pass tech inspection scrutiny?

Dr No · Sep 3, 2015

So....did HRC actually change the frame...or did they grab a texta and scribble "Ichiban 2014 frame" somewhere Marquez could see it on the current one?

#22 · Sep 4, 2015

Keshav said:
Yes - but as I said, they're much more seasoned with many more years riding MGP bikes. Compare their number of crashes when they were 22 years old.

Funny (and I don't direct this at you) how everyone jumps on the number of times MM has crashed without contrasting that to the number of times he's beaten vastly more experienced riders and his record number of poles and record number of consecutive wins. Kinda balance things out - don't you think?

I never take it personally Kesh, you should know that by now. I don't believe I have jumped on the MM crash bandwagon but do acknowledge he has for a large portion of this year not had the maturity to realise his bike, while not a piece of ...., is not to his liking or at some tracks able to beat the Yamaha's and as a result has been overriding it and binning it.

That's a sign of immaturity. Sure, he has ridden well and beat many great riders on occasion. BUT don't forget he came in on what was then unquestionably the best bike in the field and has more support than he could shake a stick at. Lorenzo was his only real challenger in 2013 and in 2014, certainly for the first half, his only real challenger was himself. Rossi was still getting up to speed, Jorge was sadly mindfucked and Pedders was just being Pedders.

The true makeup of a great rider is how he copes in hard times. It;s common in motorsport for a driver/rider to come into the top class on the best equipment and then dominate for a few years then get all ruffled when things don't start going their way. I think this year is also a function of probably for one of the first times in his life, Marquez is really having to dig deep and fight without the obsolute number 1 equipment as he had in 125 and Moto2. Rossi had a learning year on the Nastro Azzuro, Lorenzo had a tough 18 months with lots of crashing and stuggling but then turned it around.

While Marquez won't like it, he needs a season like this to mature and realise he isn't always going to have the best bike and will sometimes have to settle for 2nd. ALL his crashes so far this year have been while lying in 2nd place (Iannone had just put him into 3rd at Mugello), and has only finished 2nd two other times. Thats 80 points (and the championship lead) lost.

JPSLotus said:
While he is getting prepared, I'm curious about something else, why does no one want to discuss MM's crashes in 2015?

I'm near 110% certain that any discussion should lead to the skeptics realizing that they were all MM's fault as opposed to say Aragon 2013 where losing a sensor can have adverse effects on a bike.

I'll discuss it with you!!

Argentina - He ...... up...he tried to intimidate Rossi as per his Moto2/125 days but MotoGP riders don't back down.
Mugello - That was an odd one, but again he just pushed the front too much all race long, refusing to accept that he couldn't win, and ...... up
Catalynua - Ok this one, maybe the bike caught him out. However, he was FAR too wild for only the 2nd lap of the race to go off that spectacularly
Silverstone - Track conditions caught him out, simple as. I don't see how any of the engine braking issues the Honda is currently having would have affected him at that point in the corner. The only way the 'engine braking' affected him there was if he already started to slide and shut off the throttle.

I'm not a huge fan of Stoner personally. But it makes me laugh that he rode that POS Ducati that killed many many careers and people said he's weak and just moaning. Only after the Rossi debacle did Dicati and Dorna realise that the bike and culture had to change at Ducati. Honda build a super powerful bike for MM (which he probably requested*) and he keeps binning it, and people call for Honda's head.

*In the latest Soupkast, Dean mentions I think Wayne Garnder said "Someone who can't develop a bike always asks for more power" then when they get it they say "Oh, I can't ride this".

Arrabbiata1 · Sep 4, 2015

Jumkie said:
I challenge you sir, to a duel.

LOL

By thunder Jumkers I shall ensure that you eat those words sir. The devil fly away with your impudence, I accept your challenge. I propose dawn (Pacific West Coast Time) let the venue be skype that we may upload the results to YouTube for all to behold. Sharpen thou wit and arm thee with an arsenal of rhetoric for I sir shall need but one well trained and finely aimed bullet to accomplish the deed.

Arrabbiata1 · Sep 4, 2015

Jumkie said:
With all due respect which crash would you like to point out was caused by an equipment irregularity of Marcs motorcycle?

With the possible exception of Mugello - but even that is debatable, as I personally have consistently argued, none of them - they have all been of his own making. Your point?

Jumkie said:
We end up with tangent which seem to lend credibility to this notion without substantiation.

Interesting. Tell me, do you still maintain that Marc Marquez won the 2012 Moto2 championship solely as a result of corrupt engine allocation?

Arrabbiata1 · Sep 4, 2015

#22 said:
I never take it personally Kesh, you should know that by now. I don't believe I have jumped on the MM crash bandwagon but do acknowledge he has for a large portion of this year not had the maturity to realise his bike, while not a piece of ...., is not to his liking or at some tracks able to beat the Yamaha's and as a result has been overriding it and binning it.

That's a sign of immaturity. Sure, he has ridden well and beat many great riders on occasion. BUT don't forget he came in on what was then unquestionably the best bike in the field and has more support than he could shake a stick at. Lorenzo was his only real challenger in 2013 and in 2014, certainly for the first half, his only real challenger was himself. Rossi was still getting up to speed, Jorge was sadly mindfucked and Pedders was just being Pedders.

The true makeup of a great rider is how he copes in hard times. It;s common in motorsport for a driver/rider to come into the top class on the best equipment and then dominate for a few years then get all ruffled when things don't start going their way. I think this year is also a function of probably for one of the first times in his life, Marquez is really having to dig deep and fight without the obsolute number 1 equipment as he had in 125 and Moto2. Rossi had a learning year on the Nastro Azzuro, Lorenzo had a tough 18 months with lots of crashing and stuggling but then turned it around.

While Marquez won't like it, he needs a season like this to mature and realise he isn't always going to have the best bike and will sometimes have to settle for 2nd. ALL his crashes so far this year have been while lying in 2nd place (Iannone had just put him into 3rd at Mugello), and has only finished 2nd two other times. Thats 80 points (and the championship lead) lost.

I'll discuss it with you!!

Argentina - He ...... up...he tried to intimidate Rossi as per his Moto2/125 days but MotoGP riders don't back down.
Mugello - That was an odd one, but again he just pushed the front too much all race long, refusing to accept that he couldn't win, and ...... up
Catalynua - Ok this one, maybe the bike caught him out. However, he was FAR too wild for only the 2nd lap of the race to go off that spectacularly
Silverstone - Track conditions caught him out, simple as. I don't see how any of the engine braking issues the Honda is currently having would have affected him at that point in the corner. The only way the 'engine braking' affected him there was if he already started to slide and shut off the throttle.

I'm not a huge fan of Stoner personally. But it makes me laugh that he rode that POS Ducati that killed many many careers and people said he's weak and just moaning. Only after the Rossi debacle did Dicati and Dorna realise that the bike and culture had to change at Ducati. Honda build a super powerful bike for MM (which he probably requested*) and he keeps binning it, and people call for Honda's head.

*In the latest Soupkast, Dean mentions I think Wayne Garnder said "Someone who can't develop a bike always asks for more power" then when they get it they say "Oh, I can't ride this".

Outstanding post.

michaelm · Sep 4, 2015

Jumkie said:
Mike, food for thought regarding your question about thriving RCVs.

Would you agree that Ducati in reality deserve their "factory 2" classification, as they are running under a different set of rules and clearly were allowed concessions for performance leveling purposes? If you do, and you should, then here is something interesting:

If you eliminate the anomaly that is Ducati, as clearly their finishing order is inflated in the championship by their concessions, then a RCV has either won the race or stood on the podium every single race this year, and sometimes 2 of the 3, where Pedrosa and Crutchlow have been in the top 3. Same applies for qualifying, where again the RCV has been on pole multiple times, every opportunity in the top 3 and sometimes 2 of 3, and 1-2 (with the exception of Catalunya where believe it or not Suzuki was 1-2).

Now that is "thriving". And I reject the idea that Crutchlow's record can be an indication of the RCV's crash prone deficiency based on his ample gravel record because we would need to revise then that the M1, the GP14, and the RCV are ...... unfettered hazards because he has crashed on it. Redding has no where near the support of the factory riders, and his satellite bike DNF record can hardly be correlated to the deficiency of the factory supported machine unless you concede to a multiplier factor for other satellite and "factory" machines; where if we are to use as a correlation, then the Espargaro's brothers crash record should merit their machines to be black flagged immediately. Lets shelve the DNFs of the Aprillia and Suzuki, though I must have missed the pages and posts where the machines were blamed for their rider's crashes--as seem to be the standard this year to assess the respective machine of one Marc Marquez. If the bikes caused crashes, then how did Aprillia pass tech inspection scrutiny?

Sure, readily accept the Ducati results are not legit.

My main comparison is Dani, who if a nearly man has consistently been a nearly man, and has not looked much this year except at his favoured Sachsenring. Sure he had the arm pump, but that is not inconsistent with the bike being difficult and conceivably a result of same. In general even leaving MM aside it is looking likely the trick gearshift was a significant advantage previously now that Yamaha have it as well, notwithstanding that Yamaha may have done other good things, possibly with Valentino's input contributing etc

I think #22's later post pretty much nails it as far as MM is concerned for me, as did JPS with his earlier comment about the mind games with Rossi MM, it would now seem unwisely, appeared to instigate and welcome. If you recall, I also argued at the time that there has seldom been anything more ridiculous than it being the wire's fault when he took out Dani last year.

#22 · Sep 4, 2015

Thanks Arrab

J4rn0 · Sep 4, 2015

Honda easily looked like the best bike for the past four seasons, but its top riders have been Stoner and Marquez, two of the most phenomenally crazy champions of modern times. One of them, Stoner, even made the 2010 Ducati look good...

Pedrosa, by some considered an alien, has been regularly outperformed by both on the Honda. Other Honda riders fade in the distance. If we had to judge a bike from the results of its satellite riders, the Yamaha would look like the best now.

Jumkie · Sep 4, 2015

#22 said:
I never take it personally Kesh, you should know that by now. I don't believe I have jumped on the MM crash bandwagon but do acknowledge he has for a large portion of this year not had the maturity to realise his bike, while not a piece of ...., is not to his liking or at some tracks able to beat the Yamaha's and as a result has been overriding it and binning it.

That's a sign of immaturity. Sure, he has ridden well and beat many great riders on occasion. BUT don't forget he came in on what was then unquestionably the best bike in the field and has more support than he could shake a stick at. Lorenzo was his only real challenger in 2013 and in 2014, certainly for the first half, his only real challenger was himself. Rossi was still getting up to speed, Jorge was sadly mindfucked and Pedders was just being Pedders.

The true makeup of a great rider is how he copes in hard times. It;s common in motorsport for a driver/rider to come into the top class on the best equipment and then dominate for a few years then get all ruffled when things don't start going their way. I think this year is also a function of probably for one of the first times in his life, Marquez is really having to dig deep and fight without the obsolute number 1 equipment as he had in 125 and Moto2. Rossi had a learning year on the Nastro Azzuro, Lorenzo had a tough 18 months with lots of crashing and stuggling but then turned it around.

While Marquez won't like it, he needs a season like this to mature and realise he isn't always going to have the best bike and will sometimes have to settle for 2nd. ALL his crashes so far this year have been while lying in 2nd place (Iannone had just put him into 3rd at Mugello), and has only finished 2nd two other times. Thats 80 points (and the championship lead) lost.

I'll discuss it with you!!

Argentina - He ...... up...he tried to intimidate Rossi as per his Moto2/125 days but MotoGP riders don't back down.
Mugello - That was an odd one, but again he just pushed the front too much all race long, refusing to accept that he couldn't win, and ...... up
Catalynua - Ok this one, maybe the bike caught him out. However, he was FAR too wild for only the 2nd lap of the race to go off that spectacularly
Silverstone - Track conditions caught him out, simple as. I don't see how any of the engine braking issues the Honda is currently having would have affected him at that point in the corner. The only way the 'engine braking' affected him there was if he already started to slide and shut off the throttle.

I'm not a huge fan of Stoner personally. But it makes me laugh that he rode that POS Ducati that killed many many careers and people said he's weak and just moaning. Only after the Rossi debacle did Dicati and Dorna realise that the bike and culture had to change at Ducati. Honda build a super powerful bike for MM (which he probably requested*) and he keeps binning it, and people call for Honda's head.

*In the latest Soupkast, Dean mentions I think Wayne Garnder said "Someone who can't develop a bike always asks for more power" then when they get it they say "Oh, I can't ride this".

Jesus, we have had some sublime posts this week, this one tops them all. Fantastic man.

Arrabi, I will memorize this post and repeat it to you sir when that fateful day comes.

Jumkie · Sep 4, 2015

Arrabbiata1 said:
With the possible exception of Mugello - but even that is debatable, as I personally have consistently argued, none of them - they have all been of his own making. Your point?

WAIT! Then what EXACTLY will we be debating if we are in agreement?!? I accept you concede that in your words "none of them" crashes were CAUSED by equipment; I therefore find no need to duel as this is the point of contention. The voice of reason has spoken in no uncertain words.

CASE CLOSED

Gentlemen, I am now entertaining tangents again. As getting Kesh to concede similar challenge is of no value to me. Actually no value to anyone for that matter.

Jumkie · Sep 4, 2015

#22 said:
Thanks Arrab

Yes, I know. Getting Arrabi's approval is like winning something, or better yet, earning something that we can be proud of my friend.

Arrabi, now that im entertaining tangents, Bradley Smith called Marc Marquez a "cheater". That is on record. So take up your questions with him. As I'm exhausted from getting people to concede the crashes Marquez experienced this year were not caused by equipment failure or "decline", a notion that has been used to build a house of cards that somehow the Honda has been responsible for his inability to contend the championship.

Now if you can graciously excuse me, I have to dawn a flame suit for the predictable verbal diarrhea that is surely to come my way from Keshavolatil.

SuperManatee · Sep 4, 2015

Arrabbiata1 said:
By thunder Jumkers I shall ensure that you eat those words sir. The devil fly away with your impudence, I accept your challenge. I propose dawn (Pacific West Coast Time) let the venue be skype that we may upload the results to YouTube for all to behold. Sharpen thou wit and arm thee with an arsenal of rhetoric for I sir shall need but one well trained and finely aimed bullet to accomplish the deed.

Thanks Arabb and Blumkie. A rousing debate. I thoroughly enjoyed watching it. Thanks for uploading. And to think all these years I thought Arab was a male

Round 12 Silverstone: Practice, Qualifying, Race

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