I hear what you are saying, but nobody (not even Valentino Rossi) can win forever. In the old days it wasn't uncommon for riders to be forced away from racing by injuries. Thankfully that is considerably more rare now, but when that did happen people generally tend to extrapolate those careers at the highest level for the considerable future (the most extreme example is senna). But anyway, nobody can continue winning forever, and at least with Ducati his legacy will be one of a challenge too far, rather than him staying at Yamaha to be beaten by Lorenzo.
Rossi's Legacy Tainted
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I hear what you are saying, but nobody (not even Valentino Rossi) can win forever. In the old days it wasn't uncommon for riders to be forced away from racing by injuries. Thankfully that is considerably more rare now, but when that did happen people generally tend to extrapolate those careers at the highest level for the considerable future (the most extreme example is senna). But anyway, nobody can continue winning forever, and at least with Ducati his legacy will be one of a challenge too far, rather than him staying at Yamaha to be beaten by Lorenzo.
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Thought it time to dig up this old thread.
So where does Rossi's legacy stand after round 1 of 2012?
Failed to develop the Ducati into a satellite beating bike. Development skills - Tainted.
Failed to put in any effort in race and whinging and bitching about his team. Mental strength - Tainted.
Punted off track by Barbara. Race craft - Tainted.
And Finally......
Failed to finish an era (800cc) as most successful rider of era. GOAT status - Tainted.
Rossi it seems is really just a GOOT. Greatest Of One Time. That time being the 990era.
So where does Rossi's legacy stand after round 1 of 2012?
Failed to develop the Ducati into a satellite beating bike. Development skills - Tainted.
Failed to put in any effort in race and whinging and bitching about his team. Mental strength - Tainted.
Punted off track by Barbara. Race craft - Tainted.
And Finally......
Failed to finish an era (800cc) as most successful rider of era. GOAT status - Tainted.
Rossi it seems is really just a GOOT. Greatest Of One Time. That time being the 990era.
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I have been waiting for someone to dig up this ole thread.....trust you Mental
Development god myth debunked....check
Goat status debunked...check
Legacy tainted.....check
I was actually hoping to see Vale up front this season as I do feel for him after last years troubles...but the excuses and bitching at his competitors from both himself and his legion of rabid fans has once again turned me off seeing him progress any further. His whine about Hector putting a "hard pass" on him at the end of the Qatar race was classic - harden up you .....
The sad thing is............that it is even worse than I imagined.
Schadenfreude has now morphed into , dare I say it, a degree of sympathy.
To a large degree, he has deserved this after what he has said and done over the years, but for all that, I would like to see him dicing near the front. Not winning, mind you. I have not gone that soft in the head.
This is a real character test for Valentino. Can he handle it?
Schadenfreude has now morphed into , dare I say it, a degree of sympathy.
To a large degree, he has deserved this after what he has said and done over the years, but for all that, I would like to see him dicing near the front. Not winning, mind you. I have not gone that soft in the head.
This is a real character test for Valentino. Can he handle it?
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He said they didn't change the things he wanted changed on the bike, he rides the front remember, the bike is still tail heavy.
His time in the race was actually similar to Haydens, but I think you are right that he didn't give it his all, even JB said it would have only been about 2/10s faster a lap if he had.
I don't blame him for bad mouthing Ducati, they have delivered the same point and shoot bike they entered GP with. The same strategy and style bike that we saw go from 10,6,4,3 race wins in respective years while being ridden by the only man in the field who had success on the bike. So the bike has either gone backwards or the competition has caught up. Either way you want to look at it the results are the same and the bike has been steadily losing it's competitiveness. Rossi just like Ducati thought it was CS who lost his competitiveness, no one thought it was the bike and now they are both paying for it. It serves them both right but the duty to build the bike as your number 1 rider wants lands solely at the feet of Ducati. There is no doubt in my mind that he would be a solid 3rd-4th place rider if he was still on the M1.
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This thread would be more interesting if it was titled "Rossis taint Uccioed"
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Isn't it the duty of the rider to ride the bike supplied to him by his employer? Is Rossi such a one trick pony that he is completely incapable of changing his riding style. I thought the 1000's were going to allow a change in strategy and it was not going to be all about corner speed?
>Rossi was the 990 era king. He should have this style down pat.
I agree the Ducati was becoming increasingly less successful but I attribute a good deal of that to Stoner who was struggling with health and more importantly his political place in GP's which affected his performances.
At the end of the day Rossi's legacy and title of GOAT is at risk because he has either failed to try or failed to change his style in order to succeed on the Ducati when another was able to. He has further failed to lead the development of the bike which he was hailed as the second coming regarding his ability to do so. Blaming Ducati for this should go along side giving Yamaha ALL of the kudos for developing the M1 which we know has never been the case.
Depends if the Ducati is as bad as people are suggesting........ ??
If it is, Rossi is justified and Ducati need a kick in the ....
If it's not, Rossi needs a kick in the ....
I definitely don't think the Duc is on par with the factory Hondas and Yamahas, but I also don't think it is as far off as people are suggesting. Hayden and the satelite teams are in basically the same position as last year, so relatively speaking, the Duc might not be any further behind than what it was last year (or in 2010).
I understand that the last 2% is the hardest to find, but I can't believe a company like Ducati, with all their racing experience (and there is some very smart racing minds in Duc Corsa), can't get the design of the bike right, with enough adjustability to satisfy the specific likes of each rider. This constantly building a new bike from scratch, is crazy.
With the possible exception of the 3 at the front, Rossi should be faster than every other rider on the grid (no disrespect to Ben Spies).
If it is, Rossi is justified and Ducati need a kick in the ....
If it's not, Rossi needs a kick in the ....
I definitely don't think the Duc is on par with the factory Hondas and Yamahas, but I also don't think it is as far off as people are suggesting. Hayden and the satelite teams are in basically the same position as last year, so relatively speaking, the Duc might not be any further behind than what it was last year (or in 2010).
I understand that the last 2% is the hardest to find, but I can't believe a company like Ducati, with all their racing experience (and there is some very smart racing minds in Duc Corsa), can't get the design of the bike right, with enough adjustability to satisfy the specific likes of each rider. This constantly building a new bike from scratch, is crazy.
With the possible exception of the 3 at the front, Rossi should be faster than every other rider on the grid (no disrespect to Ben Spies).
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Top post....I feel exactly the same way.
I was hoping to see Vale competitive this weekend. He wasnt and he didnt look to be even trying which considering the salary he is extracting from his employers made me quite angry at his distinct lack of effort. Admitting to journos that he considered pulling in because he wasnt competitive was totally unacceptable. He needs to grit his teeth and reward Ducati with an effort that reflects his wages or allow another rider to take his place who will give their all.
If it is a mental health issue I hope he takes time out to recover. It would be a terrible way for him to bow out of the sport.if he never competes in MGP again but this must be addressed now before things get out of hand.
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I think that the racer in VR46 is still there. Hopefully, Burgess and Ducati can find a setting for him that restores his confidence and gives him a basis to come back. You've got to give a rider what he needs to do his job. Not just what the computer says he needs.
I think that, on the right equipment, Valentino can be just as competitive as he ever was on a GP bike.
KS.
http://www.superbike...12041034x34.htm
END OF THREAD..
I think that, on the right equipment, Valentino can be just as competitive as he ever was on a GP bike.
KS.
http://www.superbike...12041034x34.htm
END OF THREAD..
The racer in VR46 ended at Sepang 2011.
Tainted yes. That's not a question.
How much is the question.
Imagine Rossi was on the Ducati in 2008, 2009 & 2010. Three more years like 2011.
Tainted big time.
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Now imagine if Casey was on the Honda or Yam all those years, we might be talking 40+ wins instead of 32, the bike is important plain and simple.
+2 above.....
After the MD era we aussies cherished I was at pains who was the rider I'd back, VR was an obvious choice due to my families Italian origins and JB but I wished for anybody else to take the wins off him hence followed Gib, Max etc but due to VR's domination I just had to admire what he had done and at times enjoyed his extra post race celebrations BUT once our CS started on the Duc I naturally followed our own as well as Vermulen.
Roll to 2012 it really was't nice seeing VR46 performance over the weekend but as mentioned above he has been a naughty little boy at times and I hope JB and Duc can improve for imagine the whinging from Talps,Nino and the other yellow boppers during a FP soon when CS comes past VR46 punching him on the shoulder for getting in the way of the racing line
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Imagine you were a supremely talented racer, you could have won those titles, imagine Casey drank milk, he could have been a taxi driver, Imagine Rainey was never injured......I could go on. What might hae been means jack pal.You cant rewrite history.
Rossi is in a bad, bad place, and to be honest, he made his own bed. Nobody is disputing that. Just as Casey was awesome last year year, as was Jorge the year before.
Thats the facts, it's the revisionist "Rossi only won because (insert reason here)" pish that means nothing and makes the writers look as thick as a brick.
I repeat Rossi has shat in his own nest by going to Ducati, but he still has a record that is head and shoulders above the current crop.
Read it an weep folks, all the ........ will not change history, but will make the writer look like a fanny. An I mean the British meaning of fanny, not the American one.
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So what you are suggesting is that a patch and ball smoothbore gun was better than a riffled miniball gun?
Stupid data usage Pete.
