Rossi's Legacy Tainted
- Thread starter Bunyip
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Oh and the best of those clips is the pocket bike guy!! He is doing it clockwise!! so he hasn't dragged in prior speedway knowledge ..... and speedway guys can only turn anti-clockwise.
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Oh and the best of those clips is the pocket bike guy!! Heis doing clockwise!! so he hasn't dragged in prior speedway knowledge ..... and speedway guys can only turn anti-clockwise.
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haha, not me mate, im about 30kgs lighter than that bloke
Well on that part I was being diplomatic and not saying a word
He certainly seemed "well padded" for his little testing session there
Looked like fun anyway. I love to take mine out on an ice rink some day. Slicks and all
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i gave mine away years ago, i looped the stupid thing trying to do wheelies, took all the bark off my palms and broke my rum stubby
me and a friend also pulled it apart, drilled out the main jet, tidied up the intake and exhaust ports, and then tried to stick the head back on without a head gasket to increase the comp a bit, that didnt work
after all that ...., we got it running on methanol and whipper snipper 2 stroke oil haha. turns out that 2 stroke doesnt mix real well with methanol.....
me and a friend also pulled it apart, drilled out the main jet, tidied up the intake and exhaust ports, and then tried to stick the head back on without a head gasket to increase the comp a bit, that didnt work
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i gave mine away years ago, i looped the stupid thing trying to do wheelies, took all the bark off my palms and broke my rum stubby
me and a friend also pulled it apart, drilled out the main jet, tidied up the intake and exhaust ports, and then tried to stick the head back on without a head gasket to increase the comp a bit, that didnt workafter all that ...., we got it running on methanol and whipper snipper 2 stroke oil haha. turns out that 2 stroke doesnt mix real well with methanol.....
last methanol powered two stroke I used had the oil supplied by an onboard pressurised oil system, like the old prelube? thingo.
Not one of those is like Stoner technique ....... study them and you may see why
I agree, they arent the same. Stoner slides entering and exiting the turn whereas the other vids show people sliding on the exit. Though, like Michealm says, Rossi was doing it at PI a couple of years ago...
C'mon the Barry, that last lap by Rossi was pretty damn impressive was it not?
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I agree, they arent the same. Stoner slides entering and exiting the turn whereas the other vids show people sliding on the exit. Though, like Michealm says, Rossi was doing it at PI a couple of years ago...
C'mon the Barry, that last lap by Rossi was pretty damn impressive was it not?
Bingo!
and yes sliding any MGP bike at that speed such as Rossi is , is impressive for sure ...... but what Stoner does eludes even Rossi, Spies etc. and I must admit I thought Spies would get it but I now think its the product of years of early riding in dirt track by Stoner and I doubt the others can replcate it within a few years. Its a hell of a leap of faith to do what he is doing, even on dirt when you first try it, it must appear as Rossi has said "Stoner is a madman"
I now accept that it is afterall shockingly alien to suggest that you can slow your forward speed and enter a corner by increasing throttle ......... just look at Ereb and my argument on that
Agreed on the NO known facts if you are asking for program listing/printouts and analysis etc.
however to deny that there are no links or evidence for you to explore .......... is just more of the denial we had in 07, 08, 09
Ok I'll help you explore them,
Have you heard of "black box engineering"? Its when one takes the end function of a group of components and uses that known function without breaking it down into its specific part components. The main interest is that the "thing" carries out a function as it is without the need to break it down.
So how many examples of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBeS9mUImd4
( the author of that one even felt the need to title it pertinently.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y6PT33SMHQ
do you need to see ?
How the software is programmed seems moot, these videos show that the end result of TC does not appear to be achieved .......... ergo, either the programmer has failed or ....... Since we see nobody else doing what Stoner is doing ( that you need to analyze in depth before you make a premature utterance ie. reference to the past comments of folk that Stoner gets on the throttle early etc. ) then we can deduce that Stoner is in some way using TC that is less invasive. I would lately even venture to say that Stoners Dirt track heritage would require him to say that he wants control of the rear slide because in dirt track ..... thats how you steer the thing.
I still say that given that all this was argued out to death long ago ( some of the newer members may not remember ) does not hinder you at all from searching and following the whole saga if you wish.
Sure, I doubt if even Stoner knows exactly what his programmer is setting up, but when you see such videos surely you make the link that here is a bike breaking traction more than any other rider out there. It would be safe to argue that Stoner has deliberately asked to let him control the back end by lessening the amount of intrusion by the TC.
If you feel others do so also then....... where are the videos?
Why do we see a plethora of videos of Stoner doing it and nobody else ? Even in 1000 FPS it would seem.
SO to break it down into logic:
Is the intent of TC to inhibit the rear end loosing traction = Yes
Does Stoner lose traction at the arse end self controlably = Yes
Do any other current riders appear to corner by this losing traction at the rear = No
Ergo ........
Failing "Black Box" engineering, then Reverse engineer your question, ask yourself why does Stoner slide around a lot more than any of the others
In the TC era there really is only one answer
And as others have suggested already in this thread, there are a plethora of riders and Mechs who have felt the need to come forth and proclaim the Bopper myth that "Stoner uses the most TC" not only a fallacy but also the oposite of the truth. That you can search.
Well I'll agree - constructive and coherent post
However, subjective, opinionated, conjectured, devoid of factual evidence apply equally
Maybe since CS slides so well - that is a pointer that his electro wizards are really good at giving him what he needs, but then only "maybe" since the facts around tc are kept so secret - NO KNOWN FACTS
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ptk50 you must admit that that is insane footage. Stoner is sliding the rear so far before the apex and he adjust the pitch of the bike by adjusting the degree of slide. I just don't believe that that can be achieved by a nerd behind a keyboard who has never ridden a race bike before. It is unbelievable throttle control that is achieving that outcome. Sure perhaps the electronics guy is giving Casey a window of freedom to do this but that window is surely one that does not have any electronic control of wheel spin. I always say don't wait for someone to tell you what is happening, look at it and just use your own brain power to think it through. If you look at that first vid you will see the facts with your own eyes.
Hi MA, this is absolutely sensational riding and I think this is CS at or equal to his - also the - best sliding/ riding around. Also I believe his keyboard jockeys DO know about racing and riding. The footage is clear proof that he is an exceptional rider AND most probably using little electro-aid. I just don't see any clear facts that Lollo, Pedro, Benjie, VR and even maybe Simo are using more, better or worse electro tc than CS. I guess at the end of the day - it's all a moot point - what matters is winning within the rules and the more or less electro aid issue is more of a "Purist's" pining for the past - that includes me
Everyone I have spoken to who has seen Stoner's data says he uses less electronics than anyone else. That, I hasten to add, is not the same as "none". They all use a fair amount of electronic aids - though much, much more on corner entry than on corner exit, something which is at least as important as TC on corner exit, maybe more so - it's just that Stoner likes his turned down more than the other riders.
Blabla...... A truly talented rider will adapt to anything, vali was handed over a race winning package. I REPEAT, he was not given a satellite Suzuki he was given a beast that if you have the skill can be tamed to win as shown so many times by Casey. Abraham although he drops the bike occasionly is proving to be quicker than the great one regularly now. If the bike is truly un rideable explain Abrahams times on a satellite duc ? That is what's called a talented rider.
Oops sorry, I didn't think about that, it seems my ambition outwayed my talent.
Scenario for you to think about, you are at a special track day watching two elite riders ride two completely different bikes, one a poorly designed pig and the other a weapon.
Rider A posts the very same lap times on both bikes breaking the lap record.
Rider B matches rider A,s times on weapon but 2 seconds a lap slower on the pig, putting in twice the laps than rider A with no improvement.
This is where you need to be honest, you are driving home from watching this track day, which rider has your respect, and which lost it ???
Oops sorry, I didn't think about that, it seems my ambition outwayed my talent.
Scenario for you to think about, you are at a special track day watching two elite riders ride two completely different bikes, one a poorly designed pig and the other a weapon.
Rider A posts the very same lap times on both bikes breaking the lap record.
Rider B matches rider A,s times on weapon but 2 seconds a lap slower on the pig, putting in twice the laps than rider A with no improvement.
This is where you need to be honest, you are driving home from watching this track day, which rider has your respect, and which lost it ???
Impossible, first you must have talent............
Rider A hasn't ridden the other 'weapon' for a full assertive comparison, therefore making your scenario an incomplete load of drivel.......and a convenient way to sum up the situation which has more variables than you can poke a stick at.
Rider A is now currently on a weapon, being beaten by rider C and D on the same weapon. From your logic this means that riders C and D could also get on the 'pig' and and win races.
Lol, your too much.
And just to point out the obvious, rider A rode the pig in its raw state whilst rider B had his super team wave their wand over the bike and improve it significantly from its original state.......
So as far as as variables go, perhaps if rider A was to throw his leg over "pig" after extensive modifications have been done by best engineers in the biz, lap times would clearly tumble even more.
Lol
