ROSSI THREATENS WITHDRAW

Keshav said:

Can't imagine what I said to indicate Baz required any help from me. Truly puzzled.

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I will say this once, because I do see the irony in criticising you for criticising others, and I try to restrict myself in general to arguing against the opinions of others with which I disagree rather than judging their characters, obviously not always successfully.

Many posters find all this argy bargy tedious; cf Sparrows' post, in which she comments as a relatively recent and presumably less biased observer that it is two-sided as well as tedious.

Your general contention would seem to be that Jumkie et al should accept that you are their intellectual and moral superior, and all would be sweetness and light on the forum. It should hardly be surprising to you that they don't, and you are clearly causing them at least as much offence as they are causing you, but apparently for some reason in your view it is justifiable and reasonable for you to take offence but not for them to do so. I have to confess I thought they were a little over the top and didn't understand quite why they were so offended by you, but now I do; cf Birdman's posts on this thread where he is as insightful as he is in regard to bike racing, which is how I came to my better understanding of Jumkie et al's grievance.

JPSLotus said:

Oh look, Dr. Double Standard made his comeback.

I've been waiting for that.

Though, it could be worse No.

You could think Islam is a religion of peace like some around here.

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<chortle>

michaelm said:

Your general contention would seem to be that Jumkie et al should accept that you are their intellectual and moral superior, and all would be sweetness and light on the forum. It should hardly be surprising to you that they don't, and you are clearly causing them at least as much offence as they are causing you, but apparently for some reason in your view it is justifiable and reasonable for you to take offence but not for them to do so. I have to confess I thought they were a little over the top and didn't understand quite why they were so offended by you, but now I do; cf Birdman's posts on this thread where he is as insightful as he is in regard to bike racing, which is how I came to my better understanding of Jumkie et al's grievance.

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Are you familiar with the scorpion frog parable?

michaelm said:

I will say this once, because I do see the irony in criticising you for criticising others, and I try to restrict myself in general to arguing against the opinions of others with which I disagree rather than judging their characters, obviously not always successfully.

Many posters find all this argy bargy tedious; cf Sparrows' post, in which she comments as a relatively recent and presumably less biased observer that it is two-sided as well as tedious.

Your general contention would seem to be that Jumkie et al should accept that you are their intellectual and moral superior, and all would be sweetness and light on the forum. It should hardly be surprising to you that they don't, and you are clearly causing them at least as much offence as they are causing you, but apparently for some reason in your view it is justifiable and reasonable for you to take offence but not for them to do so. I have to confess I thought they were a little over the top and didn't understand quite why they were so offended by you, but now I do; cf Birdman's posts on this thread where he is as insightful as he is in regard to bike racing, which is how I came to my better understanding of Jumkie et al's grievance.

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For the record - I never seriously implied that I was smarter than Jum or Lotus. In the haze of conflict it's not possible to say who started it, tho inevitably we all think it's the other guy. I ask no-one to cede me any special status. Nor do I ask anyone to apologize. I only ask that provocation cease, across the board and that when S & K jump in with the japes and insults - that Jum and Lotus not encourage them and vice versa.

I'm sick to death of the conflict and happy to to end it any time. The whole thing is damned tedious. This whole siege mentality has gone on for far too long.

Jumkie said:

Are you familiar with the scorpion frog parable?

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Has it occurred to you that the five of us are all the scorpion and PowerSlide the "frog"?


I propose a unilateral agreement of non aggression. With no provisos other than treating each other with respect and giving each other the benefit of the doubt and leaving the past in the past.

Keshav said:

For the record - I never seriously implied that I was smarter than Jum or Lotus. In the haze of conflict it's not possible to say who started it, tho inevitably we all think it's the other guy. I ask no-one to cede me any special status. Nor do I ask anyone to apologize. I only ask that provocation cease, across the board and that when S & K jump in with the japes and insults - that Jum and Lotus not encourage them and vice versa.

I'm sick to death of the conflict and happy to to end it any time. The whole thing is damned tedious. This whole siege mentality has gone on for far too long.

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Make no mistake Kesh. You instigate this thing. You started targeting people you deemed unworthy a long time ago, people you targeted as "ruining the forum." Then went after these people, such as me with the most out of line personal attacks ever seen on this forum! Of this there is no question.

Keshav said:

Has it occurred to you that the five of us are all the scorpion and PowerSlide the "frog"?


I propose a unilateral agreement of non aggression. With no provisos other than treating each other with respect and giving each other the benefit of the doubt and leaving the past in the past.

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I think right now, that even the prick-pill spammers would breath a collective sigh of relief in support of that. But, can I suggest that when someone fires a pea shooter in your direction it's best not to respond with a daisy cutter and carpet bomb the rest of the forum.

Also, as usual Mike's right on the nail. BM is quite capable of fighting his own corner, has never allied to anyone (much respect for that) and much of the ..... that he gets he has brought entirely on himself through preemptive unprovoked attacks and derisory condescension directed at other members posts. And what's this utter fawning ..... about Barry being able to 'see through the bullshitters'!!??!! That's as bewildering as your recent support for Zoot. What else? Perhaps recommend that we invite ....... Donald Trump to chair a race relations board? Anthony Gobert to assume charge of a pharmacy dispensary chain? Loris Capirossi as a safety adviser to Dorna Spor...oh, one minute.

Incidentally, does anyone have any suggestions what the collective noun for a group of spammers might be?

Arrabbiata1 said:

Anthony Gobert to assume charge of a pharmacy dispensary chain?

Incidentally, does anyone have any suggestions what the collective noun for a group of spammers might be?

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I'm good with AG dispensing!

Spammer group noun... Borrow from crows, call them a murder!

Jumkie said:

Make no mistake Kesh. You instigate this thing. You started targeting people you deemed unworthy of the forum. People you targeted as ruining the forum. Of this there is no question.

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Arrabbiata1 said:

I think right now, that even the prick-pill spammers would breath a collective sigh of relief in support of that. But, can I suggest that when someone fires a pea shooter in your direction it's best not to respond with a daisy cutter and carpet bomb the rest of the forum.

Also, as usual Mike's right on the nail. BM is quite capable of fighting his own corner, has never allied to anyone (much respect for that) and much of the ..... that he gets he has bruought entirely on himself through preemptive unprovoked attacks and derisory condescension directed at other members posts. And what's this utter fawning ..... about Barry being able to 'see through the bullshitters'!!??!! That's as bewildering as your recent support for Zoot. What else? Perhaps recommend that we invite ....... Donald Trump to chair a race relations board? Anthony Gobert to assume charge of a pharmacy dispensary chain? Loris Capirossi as a safety adviser to Dorna Spor...oh, one minute.


Incidentally, does anyone have any suggestions what the collective noun for a group of spammers might be?

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We all see ourselves as the agrived parties. Blame enough to go around. Only way to move ahead is for all parties to stop finger pointing. When resentments have dragged on this long its impossible for anyone to be objective. In any negotiation for peace the best outcome is where everybody feels equally like they've got the short end of the stick.


Don't mistake my praise of Baz for any kind of "alliance ". What I said can be taken at face value. Numerous members have PM-d me with words of support and I have on several occasions told them I don't want a Us against them dynamic, same as I did early on when folks were bagging on Rog's site.

Never thought Zoot was a saint- but found him only slightly more obnoxious than Lex. If perhaps we (I include myself) hadn't come back at him full scale Nuclear Attack - he might have let his hair down and been less defensive. You will concede that anyone who'd lurked here for a time before joining might get the idea that this was an alpha dog rodeo. No?

I'm dead serious about putting this to an end. Nobody is getting happier or getting more satisfaction out of this forum as a result of dragging this out to the bitter end. It's not getting any better for anyone.


What say you Mssrs Jumkie, Lotus, Stylie & Knockdown?

Arrabbiata1 said:

I think right now, that even the prick-pill spammers would breath a collective sigh of relief in support of that. But, can I suggest that when someone fires a pea shooter in your direction it's best not to respond with a daisy cutter and carpet bomb the rest of the forum.

Also, as usual Mike's right on the nail. BM is quite capable of fighting his own corner, has never allied to anyone (much respect for that) and much of the ..... that he gets he has brought entirely on himself through preemptive unprovoked attacks and derisory condescension directed at other members posts. And what's this utter fawning ..... about Barry being able to 'see through the bullshitters'!!??!! That's as bewildering as your recent support for Zoot. What else? Perhaps recommend that we invite ....... Donald Trump to chair a race relations board? Anthony Gobert to assume charge of a pharmacy dispensary chain? Loris Capirossi as a safety adviser to Dorna Spor...oh, one minute.

Incidentally, does anyone have any suggestions what the collective noun for a group of spammers might be?

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An over-sufficiency, which can conveniently also be applied to a single spammer.

Keshav said:

We all see ourselves as the agrived parties. Blame enough to go around. Only way to move ahead is for all parties to stop finger pointing. When resentments have dragged on this long its impossible for anyone to be objective. In any negotiation for peace the best outcome is where everybody feels equally like they've got the short end of the stick.


Don't mistake my praise of Baz for any kind of "alliance ". What I said can be taken at face value. Numerous members have PM-d me with words of support and I have on several occasions told them I don't want a Us against them dynamic, same as I did early on when folks were bagging on Rog's site.

Never thought Zoot was a saint- but found him only slightly more obnoxious than Lex. If perhaps we (I include myself) hadn't come back at him full scale Nuclear Attack - he might have let his hair down and been less defensive. You will concede that anyone who'd lurked here for a time before joining might get the idea that this was an alpha dog rodeo. No?

I'm dead serious about putting this to an end. Nobody is getting happier or getting more satisfaction out of this forum as a result of dragging this out to the bitter end. It's not getting any better for anyone.


What say you Mssrs Jumkie, Lotus, Stylie & Knockdown?

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How many times have I offered a truce? Once? Twice? Three times? You've never kept your word Kesh. Fact. If you want to stop, then do it. The time for 'agreements' has ended. And remember kesh, I'm an individual, I speak for nobody, I only have control of myself. You only have control of yourself.

You never really tried to end your witch hunt, despite repeating the claim, somehow you've actually managed to convince yourself. Its as simple as exercising a bit of self control, I've told you this many times now. You've managed to fool some people into thinking you're not the center of the bullying, instigating, and worst of all, making it utterly personal. None, and I mean none would stand to take the depths of personal insult you've made this in to. Its why I've said it's a fascinating social experiment. I've been privy to people going ballistic over minor .... over the years, I'd love to see them read about themselves the .... you've tried to pin on those you targeted. You attack father's (only a parent can truly understand how low of a blow that is) you attack failed relationships (only a person who has gone through real heartbreak might understand) you attack intelligence. For the women here, imagine if one attacked your sense of womenhood as a real personal attack, not a joke. There's been some real awful .... said, sure everyone's got their sensitivities. I wouldn't for example stand for someone to disrespect a veteran, because I have a profound person experience, say a particular sensitivity, some here probably would gloss over it and not think twice. Oh but let someone hit their particular sensitivity, watch the fireworks. Some here have mistaken me and others standing our ground as being part of the harassment toward you, that's as accurate as a person fighting back an attacker then in some sick twist being identified as the perpetrator. Victim shaming based on their ignorant perception. You glossed over when Mdub said to you, you bring a cannon to a knife fight. Have someone explain what that means. A minor disagreement, and you start calling people bad fathers, ...... husbands, cheating mates, unworthy to exist on earth. I reject your narrative that everybody is equally complicit participants in the flame war. However, there is plenty of room for you and I to go about our business on this forum.

You're not tired of the flame war Kesh. You always find a way to continue it. You thought your not so subtle sudden approved of BM would be glossed over? Those of us here long enough understand the indirect message. Those without the history here see it as Kesh being harassed. Mistaken they are.

Its simple Kesh, let people be. Stop telling us who are the members that are awful and unworthy of your approval. Spend your time talking racing and tangents, refrain from attacking people personally. But rest assured while you continue it, I no longer have any motivation to ignore you. That ended three truce attempts ago.

And just a side note, for those "annoyed" to suffer through this flame war. This thread has been absolutely isolated. Its probably never going to offer any racing information about Rossi threatening to leave the sport. Its pretty easy avoiding this thread. Lets not pretend this thread has contaminated the entire forum. And let's not pretend you're not smart enough to avoid this thread. If you come here, we know it's because you want to read the juicy and frankly entertaining details of this duspute. Its fun. Its interesting, and it's a fascinating social experiment. I sincerely hope that none of us (that includes you Kesh) give much importance in the grand scheme of our lives to this entertaining medium of posting on a forum. If it's really negatively affecting any of you please move along and do something more positive. Lets keep this in perspective.

I think people should post whatever the .... they think, particularly about bike racing, and if other people disagree they can say so giving reasons.

michaelm said:

I think people should post whatever the .... they think, particularly about bike racing, and if other people disagree they can say so giving reasons.

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Agree. I know one of my many flaws has been to express racing opinions with laser focus. I'm positively sure it's annoyed many people throughout the years. Especially because I am so long winded (remember the 8000 word posts). Also, I'm repetitive. I know it's a flaw. I'd say even an addiction. I suppose (perhaps /maybe) it's better than a drug addiction?

Jumkie said:

Agree. I know one of my many flaws has been to express racing opinions with laser focus. I'm positively sure it's annoyed many people throughout the years. Especially because I am so long winded (remember the 8000 word posts). Also, I'm repetitive. I know it's a flaw. I'd say even an addiction. I suppose (perhaps /maybe) it's better than a drug addiction?

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Not at all, nothing wrong with being passionate about bike racing and having passionate opinions about bike racing, and your passionate opinions are one of the main drawcards of the forum for me, perhaps not entirely unrelated to them not infrequently coinciding with mine.

Constructing an argument is also a joy in itself, for you I am sure as well as for me.

I think the thing about constructing an argument as well is that it hopefully gives the other person a chance to see new facts or something from a different angle etc. I say hopefully because some people refuse to change their mind no matter what or accept new facts when presented with them.

michaelm said:

I think people should post whatever the .... they think, particularly about bike racing, and if other people disagree they can say so giving reasons.

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Stoner sucks ....

propagandhi said:

Well to be fair I think i can beat anyone out there too.
BM can be a bit of a propagandhi sometimes but i can see where he's coming from 90% of the time .

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Animals?

Keshav said:

Never thought Zoot was a saint- but found him only slightly more obnoxious than Lex. If perhaps we (I include myself) hadn't come back at him full scale Nuclear Attack - he might have let his hair down and been less defensive.

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He was worse than Lex, and I had heated discussions with both. I consider myself to by relatively laid back, for example you didn't see me going all nuclear on MDub when he called me a girl. e laughed about it and remain on good terms. Zoot was full of ........ and anger, which came out in droves when he was confronted with people that he realised his ........ wouldn't work on. I won't brag in a way to make myself sound morally or intellectually superior to anyone but when it comes to engineering and similar, I know what I'm talking about. Zoot instantly and offensively dismissed my very first post to him as ........, which factually I could prove to be anything but.

So if I'm an ....... for replying in a debate when someone was offensive, then so be it

p4p1 said:

I think the thing about constructing an argument as well is that it hopefully gives the other person a chance to see new facts or something from a different angle etc. I say hopefully because some people refuse to change their mind no matter what or accept new facts when presented with them.

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Well said

JohnnyKnockdown said:

Stoner sucks ....

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Yours?

JohnnyKnockdown said:

Stoner sucks ....

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Imo he is more likely to be a suckee rather than a sucker, and half his luck given the likely perpetrator is his smoking hot wife.