Ride buyers

Pay as you go for anyone with deep enough pockets.......



http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Feb/120222a.htm



In desperation to get more bikes onto the grid and make it cheaper for teams to enter the sport are too many short cuts being taken?



Will an influx of these second rate riders on much slower bikes lead to improved racing and a better overall show for the average punter?



I really hope that none of the title contenders is involved in an incident with one of these riders when they invariably get lapped during a race....I would hate to see a championship decided by an also ran who paid to get onto the grid and doesnt have the talent to warrant a spot in the top tier of two wheeled motorsport.

Top riders have had incidents with themselves enough that we can dispell with this alarmist idea that CRTs will be any more dangerous than the previous & current riders.



Scud Elias, Torpedo Pedrosa, Reckless Randy, Wrecking Ball Sete, Rain Fart Rossi, Bowling Ball Baustista, Fruit Helmen DeAngelis, Punchy Casey, First Turn Haystack, Tacacrashi, Missel Mica, Etc. u get the picture.



So to all the peeps itching to poo poo the CRTs the first time they are in an incident, check ur history.

Jumkie said:

Top riders have had incidents with themselves enough that we can dispell with this alarmist idea that CRTs will be any more dangerous than the previous & current riders.



Scud Elias, Torpedo Pedrosa, Reckless Randy, Wrecking Ball Sete, Rain Fart Rossi, Bowling Ball Baustista, Fruit Helmen DeAngelis, Punchy Casey, First Turn Haystack, Tacacrashi, Missel Mica, Etc. u get the picture.



So to all the peeps itching to poo poo the CRTs the first time they are in an incident, check ur history.

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As usual you missed the point....my question is should riders be able to buy a seat in MotoGP when they would never be offered one on merit in the first place....nothing to do with CRT's - although these new "prototypes" have helped facillitated this madness.



If highly skilled riders with multiple world championships can cause crashes what do you think the chances will be of sub par hacks causing carnage?



You know Jumkie I still agree with most of what you say....but you have become a very bitter and sad version of your former self lately....whats up dude?



You still come up with the occasional comedy gold (your recent Rebulican gay joke was a classic )....but I don't engage you much anymore because most of what you have to say it just a sad attempt to stir up .....

If u and the rest of the neobops took an inventory of what u 'agree' & 'disagree' with me, u'd find that about .01% of opinion separates us. Then again, i once heard thats about the difference in DNA between humans & apes. Would u like a banana?



Ur post above has a degree of pattern skepticism i have found common in neobops who imply CRTs are part of the Sabotage-Casey campaign. Ur worry for "title contenders". Its between the lines (dogs balls) where i pick up on this in ur post which went on to question 'buy in' riders. Newsflash buddy, we've aready had those (of both the cash to ride, as well as, the passport-value variety). So i dont think there is any credible 'new' threat to worry us. Lets keep in mind all these riders have come from series where at some point they have dealt with lappers.

Jumkie said:

i have found common in neobops who imply CRTs are part of the Sabotage-Casey campaign.

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I would have thought that if anyone was "safest" from the back enders ...... it is Casey. Why this new paranoia from you?

Riders/drivers have ALWAYS been able to buy a seat. In fact, as I'm sure you are aware, the history of motorsport is one of privilege. The roots of motorsport are a "gentleman's (read rich adventurer with plenty of disposable income) passtime".

Jumkie said:

If u and the rest of the neobops took an inventory of what u 'agree' & 'disagree' with me, u'd find that about .01% of opinion separates us. Then again, i once heard thats about the difference in DNA between humans & apes. Would u like a banana?

Ur post above has a degree of pattern skepticism i have found common in neobops who imply CRTs are part of the Sabotage-Casey campaign. Ur worry for "title contenders". Its between the lines (dogs balls) where i pick up on this in ur post which went on to question 'buy in' riders. Newsflash buddy, we've aready had those (of both the cash to ride, as well as, the passport-value variety). So i dont think there is any credible 'new' threat to worry us. Lets keep in mind all these riders have come from series where at some point they have dealt with lappers.

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According to you everything is a Stoner/Rossi conspiracy....threads like Mentals 2012 predictions thread are twisted into something they are not because of your bizarre logic and anti neo/paleo bopper agendas. I believe you to be the most cynical poster on here these days. Why dont you, for a change, answer the ....... question posed instead of reading something into it that isnt there in the first place. I am not the one fighting with everyone on the forum...take a look in the mirror before posting your vitriolic rants and dishing out trash talk - then maybe people would be more civil towards you and you wouldnt have to cry about everyone treating you unfairly...

Mick D said:

Riders/drivers have ALWAYS been able to buy a seat. In fact, as I'm sure you are aware, the history of motorsport is one of privilege. The roots of motorsport are a "gentleman's (read rich adventurer with plenty of disposable income) passtime".

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Has it ever been this blatant....and the incumbants such low quality?

Mr Squiggle said:

According to you everything is a Stoner/Rossi conspiracy....

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The stupid thing is, you just know that Jumkie could be the one whinging monumentally about the CRT's later in the season.



Hayden has a history of being 'back in the pack where the action is", so he is actually going tp be the one who needs to worry about them. Can't wait to see the spatty from Jumkie then ......

BarryMachine said:

The stupid thing is, you just know that Jumkie could be the one whinging monumentally about the CRT's later in the season.



Hayden has a history of being 'back in the pack where the action is", so he is actually going tp be the one who needs to worry about them. Can't wait to see the spatty from Jumkie then ......

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I dont think they will be bothering any of the factory guys until they come up to lap them about 2/3 through the race...thats when we may see some problems arise. You can bet your arse Stoner will be whining about it if it holds him up! If Hayden gets taken out by one of them I am sure Jumkie will do his normal flip flopping and change allegiances on the fly.

Mr Squiggle said:

I dont think they will be bothering any of the factory guys until they come up to lap them about 2/3 through the race...thats when we may see some problems arise. You can bet your arse Stoner will be whining about it if it holds him up! If Hayden gets taken out by one of them I am sure Jumkie will do his normal flip flopping and change allegiances on the fly.

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Not sure the starts, and race will be as clear cut as all that ......... I predict a bit of "intermingling"early in the season and a lot of intermingling when some races have passed.

Mr Squiggle said:

Has it ever been this blatant....and the incumbants such low quality?

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Hell yes, how long have you been watching any motor sports? Do you know that the MSMA has left the sport before? Do you what the first GP bikes were? Do you have any clue what Ago was racing against? It's always been about having the money to go racing, the real problem is that it cost so damn much now.

hawkdriver said:

Hell yes, how long have you been watching any motor sports? Do you know that the MSMA has left the sport before? Do you what the first GP bikes were? Do you have any clue what Ago was racing against? It's always been about having the money to go racing, the real problem is that it cost so damn much now.

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Is seeing riders lapped going to improving the spectacle for you? It wont for me....



I thought we had seen the last of riders of the calibre of Michael Rudroff etc...perhaps they should also bring back push starts and stick everyone on 1960 era MV Augustas just so we can have a close race and bring the costs down.



In todays highly professional sport environment where safety is a concern this has serious implications and there should not be open slather for entry into the PREMIERE class of road racing for just anyone. Are they going to ignore the 107% qualifying rule to allow these riders on the grid for the race if they arent fast enough?

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Mr Squiggle said:

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Mr Squiggle said:

[font=Arial, sans-serif]Pay as you go for anyone with deep enough pockets.......[/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]http://www.superbike...Feb/120222a.htm[/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]In desperation to get more bikes onto the grid and make it cheaper for teams to enter the sport are too many short cuts being taken?[/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]Will an influx of these second rate riders on much slower bikes lead to improved racing and a better overall show for the average punter?[/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]I really hope that none of the title contenders is involved in an incident with one of these riders when they invariably get lapped during a race....I would hate to see a championship decided by an also ran who paid to get onto the grid and doesnt have the talent to warrant a spot in the top tier of two wheeled motorsport.[/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif]

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[font=Arial, sans-serif]Squigs, to me there is a large double edged sword to all this and (as I hear the gnashing of teeth) I genuinely do not know which side of the fence I prefer, or sit on at this point.[/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]I appreciate that something must be done to get more bikes onto the grid but I remain totally uncertain as to whether CRT is the right way to go as I feel that to put bikes on teh grid that by design cannot compete is a flaw in teh entire process (can see Jumkie's eyes lighting up with a response). But I simply do not have an answer as to how to make the factory bikes more affordable and therefore I accept that CRT are at this point the more likely viable alternative, but are they the longer term financially viable solution is yet to be answered. [/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]So, to riders buying rides and whilst I see a lot of negatives we also need to look at it as a case of 'could a superstar be unearthed'.[/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]I say that as simply puit (and sorry to raise this name) but many people would never/not have picked Stoner to be a world champion or even worthy of a ride in MGP, but given the opportunity we now know the results and can say (in hindsight) that he had ability. How do we know these riders that may well be buying a ride in 2012 will not be paid to ride in 2013 or 2014?[/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]Now, with all that said, I do have a major issue with th3 'older' brigade who have had opportunities using their sponsor dollars to buy a ride only to be uncompetitive, but in saying that I do not blame them but the wider system that allows it.[/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]Whilst it is totally unreasonable as we should not restrict the accessibility of MGP, I would not complain if there was an age limitation (ie. maximum age) put in place for riders whom have not competed in the previous year and thus hopefully bring in younger and fresher riders.[/font]



However, we may all be premature anyway as the future will determine if there is valid reason for concern, but I do genuinely wonder what will happen when these riders do not make the required cut off times to qualify and whether that time should be bought in closer.

Gaz said:

[font=Arial, sans-serif]Squigs, to me there is a large double edged sword to all this and (as I hear the gnashing of teeth) I genuinely do not know which side of the fence I prefer, or sit on at this point.[/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]I appreciate that something must be done to get more bikes onto the grid but I remain totally uncertain as to whether CRT is the right way to go as I feel that to put bikes on teh grid that by design cannot compete is a flaw in teh entire process (can see Jumkie's eyes lighting up with a response). But I simply do not have an answer as to how to make the factory bikes more affordable and therefore I accept that CRT are at this point the more likely viable alternative, but are they the longer term financially viable solution is yet to be answered. [/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]So, to riders buying rides and whilst I see a lot of negatives we also need to look at it as a case of 'could a superstar be unearthed'.[/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]I say that as simply puit (and sorry to raise this name) but many people would never/not have picked Stoner to be a world champion or even worthy of a ride in MGP, but given the opportunity we now know the results and can say (in hindsight) that he had ability. How do we know these riders that may well be buying a ride in 2012 will not be paid to ride in 2013 or 2014?[/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]Now, with all that said, I do have a major issue with th3 'older' brigade who have had opportunities using their sponsor dollars to buy a ride only to be uncompetitive, but in saying that I do not blame them but the wider system that allows it.[/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif]Whilst it is totally unreasonable as we should not restrict the accessibility of MGP, I would not complain if there was an age limitation (ie. maximum age) put in place for riders whom have not competed in the previous year and thus hopefully bring in younger and fresher riders.[/font]



However, we may all be premature anyway as the future will determine if there is valid reason for concern, but I do genuinely wonder what will happen when these riders do not make the required cut off times to qualify and whether that time should be bought in closer.

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Excellent post Gaz and I myself feel much the same way as you do....will CRT be of benefit to the long term viability of the sport? As you say time will tell. I sincerely hope it does! I would prefer riders to be elevated to this series on ability or potential only....some of these candidates fall short of the mark IMO but my concerns may be proven totally unfounded - I hope so.

Gaz said:

I would not complain if there was an age limitation (ie. maximum age) put in place for riders whom have not competed in the previous year and thus hopefully bring in younger and fresher riders.

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Personally I'd rather see 36/37 year old Josh Hayes getting a ride than Ivan Silva or Yonny Hernandez... Not big on an upper age limit.

Mr Squiggle said:

Has it ever been this blatant....and the incumbants such low quality?

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When you say "incumbents" do you mean the current field of MotoGP racers? Not sure of your meaning there...

As for the blatantcy... Just spent some time looking at historical results on the MGP website. Used 500cc at Assen (cause its always been!) and the answer seems to be yes. Historically (even with grid sizes of only ten riders) there was either a lot of filler riders and/or bikes no where near up to the task.

Farkin' double!

The buy a ride problem is in my opinion a result of a long festering problem with MotoGP.



The pointy end of this long festering problem is the current PC opinion that MotoGP is too expensive. I do not believe that MotoGP is too expensive what I believe is that MotoGP revenues are too small. What should be at the forefront of the agenda is how has MotoGP failed to grow its revenue pool?



I won't get in to why I think MotoGP has failed to grow its revenue pool because the perpetually negative posters will just call me a stupid term that I refuse to use.



Being scared of technological advancement is just silly in my opinion. Look at every facet of our lives and at all points you will find technological advancement. At the pinnacle of every industry is business/companies/manufacturers driving technology further and further. Why do we expect MotoGP the pinnacle of Motorcycle racing on planet Earth to be bucking this trend and dumbing down the technology? Will a reduction in technology make MotoGP more or less relevant? It is my view that it will make it less relevant.



Dumbing down technology in the pursuit of cost reduction does one thing that in my opinion damages MotoGP very long term. It reduces the expectations of, and therefore the effort put in by teams to generate a racing budget. If a CRT team has the expectation that the organiser will continue to drive down costs then they place no importance in putting in place the structure to go out and generate revenue. What is the size of the marketing department of a CRT Team? Do they even employ just one person to full time pitch and sell sponsorship to prospective sponsors? Or is their marketing strategy to get a rider who can bring sponsorship dollars?



Until MotoGP as an organisation and all the independent participants/stakeholders change their focus from cost reduction to revenue generation/growth the slide to the bottom will continue.

Mental Anarchist said:

1. MotoGP is expensive.

2. how has MotoGP failed to grow its revenue pool?

3. Being scared of technological advancement is just silly

4. Do they even employ just one person to full time pitch and sell sponsorship to prospective sponsors?

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1. Yes prototype racing in any form is expensive.

2. Niche sport and ...... global economy.

3. Gand Prix racing has always been a mix of leading edge prototypes and less advanced privateers.

4. Fund raising is probably on the principals minds more than any other single consideration.