Qatar round 1 2010. RACE

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Apr 12 2010, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Your theory was proved wrong right before your eyes,the 2 slowest bikes among the front runners in a straight line finished 1-2. Better power delivery and handling is what wins races.

A bike with an advantage in top speed can often beat a bike capable of 2 seconds a lap better time with equal rider material
I dont even know how to respond to that. We are talking a 6 mph difference in speed, not 60. Do you have any idea how much faster a bike would have to be in a straight line to make it equal to a bike that is capable of 2 seconds a lap faster.
Haha. Classic Babel. Hes gonna argue till blue in the face. Wont make much sense tho. Also, expect a "lost in translation" defense somewher.

Highlights for me, Haydens start and race pace, Lorenzo reeling in the leaders in the dying laps and getting a credible 2nd place. Props to Dovi and also Spies who had a great ride.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 13 2010, 02:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Babel, ur full of .... as usual buddy. U try to explain but ur words ring hollow to the undisputed reality on the track. We already went over this, u wer wrong in 07 & now again. U dont learn well do u. I proved time and time again that having the fastest bike doesnt mean jack ..... U tried to tell us how Stoner won cuz of monster speed in 07 but didnt explain why Rossi was on his ... the entire race. Again today ur saying the same ......... Here is what actually happened: Ross had the "slowest" bike but won the race! This previous sentence should be enuf to end ur rediculous argument. But i know it wont.
Rossi bike was certainly the slowest, but only on the straight. He was losing 6-7kmph on the quickest. Whilst it was quite a difference, I don't think it was at the level of 07.

Rossi just proved that power down the straight is certainly not the most important factor in winning, vr did mention post race that the others advantage on the straight was cause for concern though.......

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Apr 13 2010, 04:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi bike was certainly the slowest, but only on the straight. He was losing 6-7kmph on the quickest. Whilst it was quite a difference, I don't think it was at the level of 07.

Rossi just proved that power down the straight is certainly not the most important factor in winning, vr did mention post race that the others advantage on the straight was cause for concern though.......
Did he need to go any faster? If it is a problem, which him winning the race would suggest it isn't, this is probably the track where it would be expected to be most pronounced. If it did happen to be a problem over the season, which I doubt, then it is his and yamaha's problem and irrelevant to the other riders and teams, particularly in the third year of the formula.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 13 2010, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Did he need to go any faster? If it is a problem, which him winning the race would suggest it isn't, this is probably the track where it would be expected to be most pronounced. If it did happen to be a problem over the season, which I doubt, then it is his and yamaha's problem and irrelevant to the other riders and teams, particularly in the third year of the formula.
Didn't I just say that it wasn't an important factor in vr winning the race? And cause for concern for rossi, which means his team as well?

My point is he was able to win because of superiority in all the other areas other than straight line speed, the areas which the rider has more control over

I know you love to retort every post of mine but this is dribble Mick.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Apr 12 2010, 06:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>nearly 24hrs have past

Q. Where's the Stoner fans.?

Does he need to calm it down
championships as a rule are won on consistency not i need to win every race

Well, I commented early on that I was in mourning mode in response to Michaels post. I,m not hiding.
Its obvious Casey fecked up and all the top 5 riders did very well. I,ve given praise where it is due, unreservedly. Probably something you,ll never see from Talpacurvaceous mudcrab.

Casey stuffed up. I can,t add much more apart from the fact he did some nice passes before then, belying the nonsense that Talpa etc come up with that he can,t dice as well as Rossi. Well as far as it went CS did ok.............then...............

Hayden could have WON the race if that ..... Dovi hadn't been in his way!!

9365:28.gif]


(I do think he was being held up a little.)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 13 2010, 05:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Did he need to go any faster? If it is a problem, which him winning the race would suggest it isn't, this is probably the track where it would be expected to be most pronounced. If it did happen to be a problem over the season, which I doubt, then it is his and yamaha's problem and irrelevant to the other riders and teams, particularly in the third year of the formula.
I don't think it mattered being slow down the straight so much once stoner dnf'ed. Although the top speed down the straight cost him say 0.2 sec he could make that up in the corners and under breaking. The only real threat once stoner was out the way was Dovi but he is hardly the last of the late breakers. We saw him blitz lorenzo down the straight but lorenzo was a lot later on the brakes and i don't think lorenzo was particularly that late on the breaks. Now stoner can break late so had he stayed in the race than the low speed of rossi's bike would have been a very important factor i think.

thread not the usual out n out .... flinging /cursed now

The "backing off" remarks by Stoner aren't necessarily wrong just because he set the fastest sector time in the sector previous to his fall. Couldn't he have changed his style in the sector he crashed? Or even in the corner he crashed?

If he says the telemetry shows the front wasn't loaded when he went down - as opposed to previous laps when he didn't - is there any reason to disbelieve him? Or should I say, is there any reason for rational people to disbelieve him? Anyone here got access to Stoner's telemetry?

Anyway, he screwed up. He's not the first and won't be the last.

As to the lack of praise for Rossi.....well, Stoner crashed, Lorenzo was injured and Peddles is lost on the new bike....so, congrats to Rossi and his fans but it was nothing more than a solid performance.

PS: Talpa and co., crash.net is -------> way! Did you have a few too many and get lost?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Apr 13 2010, 07:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Didn't I just say that it wasn't an important factor in vr winning the race? And cause for concern for rossi, which means his team as well?

My point is he was able to win because of superiority in all the other areas other than straight line speed, the areas which the rider has more control over

I know you love to retort every post of mine but this is dribble Mick.
Whilst perhaps not well expressed my points were two; once stoner was out of the race rossi didn't need to go any faster and may have been preserving fuel by not going too hard, although this is rather speculative. The second which was possibly a dig at you is if the yamaha ultimately proves to have a straight line disadvantage, tough luck , although I had no intention to start throwing anything at least until stoner finishes a few races.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Apr 13 2010, 05:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Casey stuffed up. I can,t add much more apart from the fact he did some nice passes before then, belying the nonsense that Talpa etc come up with that he can,t dice as well as Rossi. Well as far as it went CS did ok.............then...............

wrong again furry myth creature!! Had you read the thread you would have seen my praising of Spies, Nicky, melandri and Jorge.......far from something you'll never see. I told you to update those prescription lenses already!!

Are you saying that casey can dice and dogfight just as good as rossi?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Apr 13 2010, 12:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi rode amazingly well, last on the speed trap and visibly slower on the straight to almost 07 levels. He pulled out just what was required in the corners to hold them back, all of this while battling a lack of grip with fuel issues.

Although i don't want to sound like i'm discrediting Rossi because he pretty much always rides amazingly well, i don't understand why some people are convinced Rossi has achieved some minor miracle or against the odds win. He was comfortably the second quickest riders all weekend, everyone knows he's the reigning world champion, riding the best bike and Stoner crashed. What else would you expect to happen? His speed trap speed was down, but he says he had rear grip issues (as did Lorenzo earlier in the weekend) so i'd imagine he just wasn't getting out of the last corner well. If the speed was all the bikes doing he'd be in close company of the other Yamaha riders but their setups and riding (and some slipstream) allowed them to go faster.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Apr 13 2010, 07:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think it mattered being slow down the straight so much once stoner dnf'ed. Although the top speed down the straight cost him say 0.2 sec he could make that up in the corners and under breaking. The only real threat once stoner was out the way was Dovi but he is hardly the last of the late breakers. We saw him blitz lorenzo down the straight but lorenzo was a lot later on the brakes and i don't think lorenzo was particularly that late on the breaks. Now stoner can break late so had he stayed in the race than the low speed of rossi's bike would have been a very important factor i think.
I am showing the flag as a matter of principle, but it is difficult to argue cogently about a race you can't bring yourself to watch .

I think yamaha have been rumoured to be marginal on fuel economy at qatar previously, and it is a track that doesn't seem to particularly suit rossi for whatever reason. As you say he may have had a significant top-speed disadvantage which did not matter once stoner crashed, but I wouldn't generalise anything for other tracks or the season at this stage.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 13 2010, 02:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am showing the flag as a matter of principle, but it is difficult to argue cogently about a race you can't bring yourself to watch .

I think yamaha have been rumoured to be marginal on fuel economy at qatar previously, and it is a track that doesn't seem to particularly suit rossi for whatever reason. As you say he may have had a significant top-speed disadvantage which did not matter once stoner crashed, but I wouldn't generalise anything for other tracks or the season at this stage.

Moreover, Rossi has no one to blame. He himself developed the bike and no one can argue that Casey jumped on to the Rocket bike and was fast by fluke. I have the same bad feelings (me being VR fan) that I had in 2007 start.

Cheers
Renjith

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Apr 13 2010, 08:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>wrong again furry myth creature!! Had you read the thread you would have seen my praising of Spies, Nicky, melandri and Jorge.......far from something you'll never see. I told you to update those prescription lenses already!!

Are you saying that casey can dice and dogfight just as good as rossi?

Yes, as good as the best......................................well, pretty close anyway, and a lot better than most people give credit for. When CS decides to move forward , he overtakes decisively and skillfully: as well as anybody bar possibly the ALPACA!

QUOTE (Talpa @ Apr 13 2010, 08:11 AM)
Are you saying that casey can dice and dogfight just as good as rossi?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Apr 13 2010, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes, as good as the best......................................well, pretty close anyway, and a lot better than most people give credit for. When CS decides to move forward , he overtakes decisively and skillfully: as well as anybody bar possibly the ALPACA!

The only way to prove this is with Stoner and Rossi on the same bike? Will it happen?
Anyway Stoner fcuked up, congrates and love to Rossi - just despise Rossi boppers

I think, of all the current riders, the one that has an instinct and relish for the dogfight similar to Rossi is, -- I have to say, -- Lorenzo, more than Stoner.
Yup, I said it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Apr 12 2010, 02:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Barbera bouncing off other riders like a ping-pong ball...

Mika Kallio - Pramac Racing rider - DNF
"I managed to gain some positions in the first turn, but... after a few curves also Barbera has accidentally hit me sending me outside the track."

This guy is really crazy, needs to spend a couple years in Moto2

”My start was not too bad and I was able to overtake a couple of riders in the first corner. But then when I was in the second corner Spies broke a little bit late and he touched me and I went a little bit wide and lost many positions,” explained Kallio. “Then when we went into the third corner Barberá broke quite late and he touched me, and I went into the gravel and was last when we finished the first lap.”

Link

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 13 2010, 11:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think, of all the current riders, the one that has an instinct and relish for the dogfight similar to Rossi is, -- I have to say, -- Lorenzo, more than Stoner.
Yup, I said it.
No real argument, although it would seem likely it is easier to dogfight on bikes with similar (or the same) characteristics. If you are racing rossi I think it is also probably a good idea to win any way you can, and if you have the ability to get in front of him and stay there, this is not a bad plan.