Qatar round 1 2010. RACE

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 12 2010, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think much more of him -- I think he will be eligible as the "new alien" of the year.
well i agree but still you did not answer my ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 12 2010, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It's very bad considering his wins could be more than 25, with easily 2 titles instead of 1
had he been just a little wiser, less of a Foreman and more of a Muhammad Ali, for those who are old enough to understand what I mean... Kinshasa 1976 was a lot like Laguna Seca 2008, now that I think of it

Anyway, let's give him the rest of this season to prove us wrong. If even Lorenzo seems to have become wiser, why shouldn't Stoner grow up as well, eventually

Although its easy to sit and critisize riders, especially the fast ones who crash more than they should its important to remember that often a riders strengths come tightly packaged with their weaknesses. Why doesn't a steady rider like Nicky just ride a bit faster? Why doesn't Melandri just learn to adapt? Why doesn't Stoner just wind it back a notch? Easy to say, harder for these guys to do. Even with his flaws Stoner is amongst the 3 or 4 best riders in the world and his approach has yielded a world championship. I'm not suggesting Casey should just sit back and accept that he is the way he is and hope that it works out because with a rider as complete as Rossi (and sooner or later Lorenzo) around he could easily wind up playing a Schwantz type role, but i'm not prepared to slate him on the grounds that he should simply be better.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Apr 12 2010, 05:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Using that logic, if Aoyama or any of those others - that everyone else on the planet -
perceive as rookies - were to be injured and miss two races - would that mean that
they'd been demoted back to Spies' level of rookieness? C'mon, admit it, it's a really
sophist distinction. When a rider can come from a decade or more of riding 125s and win two world
championships in the 250 class - can be still be called a rookie - it really devalues the meaning
of the word.

I think its easier just to stick with the official reckoning of who is and isn't a rookie, because with riders of so many different experience levels from different backgrounds finidng their way to the grid, deciding who is and isn't a rookie on a judgement call is near impossible.

For example... Imagine a 125cc Spanish champion who has wild carded in more than 5 world championship races entering as a rookie. Would you consider him to be more or less of a rookie than a rider from a far less prominent national series who is entering his second season but missed a sizable chunk of his first due to injury or funding issues etc?? There are so many factors you could convincingly justify either take. I say you are either eligible for rookie of the year or you aren't at the end of the day, because we judge each riders performance based on what we expect of them anyway. If Barbera gets in the top ten it'd be a good result, but if Spies was outside the top ten we'd be disappointed. You know what i mean?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Apr 12 2010, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well i agree but still you did not answer my ?

Of course he is going to be the best 'rookie' of the year, -- I think he would have been that even without his head start of two races

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rossiofsky @ Apr 12 2010, 11:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>no not actually but he had the slowest bike. and the actual word was that he won where he had a little chance.
The Yamaha is fast where it needs to be and thats all that counts in the scheme of things. I will give you top speed every week if i can have fast lap. This is just like the conversation on the Supebike board about top speed an HP. Top speed is way down the list of important factors when determining a great race bike. Where and how it makes power is much more important, as is geometric balance.Top speed would be on of the last things you work on, once everything else is worked out.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 12 2010, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Although its easy to sit and critisize riders, especially the fast ones who crash more than they should its important to remember that often a riders strengths come tightly packaged with their weaknesses. Why doesn't a steady rider like Nicky just ride a bit faster? Why doesn't Melandri just learn to adapt? Why doesn't Stoner just wind it back a notch? Easy to say, harder for these guys to do. Even with his flaws Stoner is amongst the 3 or 4 best riders in the world and his approach has yielded a world championship. I'm not suggesting Casey should just sit back and accept that he is the way he is and hope that it works out because with a rider as complete as Rossi (and sooner or later Lorenzo) around he could easily wind up playing a Schwantz type role, but i'm not prepared to slate him on the grounds that he should simply be better.

Don't take me wrong, I'm a fan of Stoner. Some of you will remember my campaign "Give us Stoner back" last year, when (almost) everybody was considering him done.
My criticism of Stoner is always a constructive one. My post ended like this:
"Anyway, let's give him the rest of this season to prove us wrong. If even Lorenzo seems to have become wiser, why shouldn't Stoner grow up as well, eventually."

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Apr 12 2010, 04:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You didn't read the quote machine, did you?

Casey said he crashed b/c he slowed down. Without high corner entry speed (and probably agressive braking) he didn't have enough load on the front tire.

Sorry, the chronometer says otherwise. He wasn't slowing down, on the contrary he was increasing his speed in the most dramatic way.

I think the opposite. I think he crashed because of excessive braking, while pushing hard.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 12 2010, 10:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry, the chronometer says otherwise. He wasn't slowing down, on the contrary he was increasing his speed in the most dramatic way.

I think the opposite. I think he crashed because of excessive braking, while pushing hard.

Why would he lie then? He stepped up the pace after he got past everyone and then felt he would conserve a little and thats when he crashed. What is not believable about this?

someone said that stoner posted the faster 1st interval split right before he dropped it..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Apr 13 2010, 12:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why would he lie then? He stepped up the pace after he got past everyone and then felt he would conserve a little and thats when he crashed. What is not believable about this?
I don't think he's lying... it's just not what the data show.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Apr 11 2010, 07:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>where is jumkie?

i bet hes still sat infront of the tv with a beer in hand in total shock...
Here coming off a great weekend. We had 20+ people over for a BBQ to welcome the new MotoGP season. BTW, that is something unheard of in the States, but not at my house, the GP season opener is like what other "normal" Americans do for the Superbowl.

Yes, I was in shock, especially in lap one when it appeared that Nicky was in front of Stoner. I was like, “What did they put in this Boddingtons I was drinking?” I admit, I downed a few, but WTF was happening on my screen—oh Lord?!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Apr 11 2010, 01:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He's gelling with the Ducati
at last! It's been worth the wait. Jumkie must be shitting himself.

Yes, I was shitting myself. Perhaps you are familiar with dugout ambience when a pitcher is throwing a no-hitter, it felt like that. I was like, “nobody move, don’t talk to me, ad for God’s sake, do not mention Nicky is in a podium position!” That’s what I was thinking, but we had a nice crowd of MotoGP enthusiast, I even finally met member Lorenzo Fan. Turns out he knows a cat that worked on my Lenny’s AMA race bike; yes it’s a very small world.

We were all hooting and hollering, but inside I was shitting bricks.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (demingracer @ Apr 11 2010, 02:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hey jumkie, tell me again how stoner is god and nickey can't ride.

Uhm? As they say on the street; “you got me ...... up homie.” (That means you are completely confused). Stoner is a badass rider dude, but I’ve been singing Nicky’s praises for years even when I couldn’t prove he should be Alien status. I love that mothafucker!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Apr 11 2010, 02:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>??? did i miss something ??? jumkie is haystacks #1 fan

Understatement compa.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Apr 11 2010, 02:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think he got Jumkie and Pinky mixed up, its easy to do
You’re gay.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Apr 11 2010, 06:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>WOW! Great job Nicky!

I hope he is in this kind of fighting shape all season! I was afraid he would fade back to 6th or 7th, but it never happened! It was really encouraging to see him fight and even put an aggressive pass on Dovi on the last lap.

I’ll admit, I thought the same thing, as is what happens when his tires start to feel the effects of his style. But no such thing happened and the thought did cross my mind he might fight for a win. Which would have been bad for everybody else watching at my house because I think I would have spontaneously combusted.

Race Comments:

Holy ....!

First of all, congrats to Rossi. He wins because of a plethora of reasons, one of which is he is smart and consistent and rarely makes a mistake. Most had written off the victory to Stoner as a foregone conclusion, yet, I did mention we might see something like Laguna 08 happen. In a way it sorta did, where Stoner fell. I disagree that Stoner tries to “crush” the field, but rather his riding style is to be on the edge; so much so that a tiny lapse has catastrophic consequence. Its really too bad to since he cannot afford to give Rossi an inch in the points, much less a mile.

Lorenzo, gritty, I hope he continues his form from last year minus the crashes.

Dovi is showing the effect of Italian clout upon a good bike, which has been redesigned to make it rideable for an average sized man. Had stupid HRC with their affinity to listen to the Devil Incarnate set aside their Pedrcycle plans in 07 and continued to develop around Nicky, they might have a ‘real’ title contender for several years. I didn’t get to post much on the thread about Puig, but his effects have been far reaching, all of which have been detrimental; I hope Pedro continues his freefall. I’m not a fan of Dovi, but he rode with mastery.

Spies did not surprise me, as I fully expected a top 5 if not a podium. He is the real deal, and will be seen on the podium this year no doubt. Oh J4rno, saying you don’t consider him a rookie to the series makes you sound dumb. C’mon man, get your .... together.

Other notables:

DePuniet, great ride! Give him Peders bike.
Peders, he’ll get better, but it seem like this supposed “Honda crisis” is .........

Kallio, I think that’s why Nicky got such a great start, god knows he didn’t want to be near him. Oh, and once again, Krashio tells us it was the other guy’s fault.
Loris, 300 starts, he is the man of steel. Congrats old man. You still got it.
Melandri, are you ....... serious?

----


Nicky Hayden! The star of the race for me! Raced on the edge to keep up with Dovi’s Honda. I admit, coming into the weekend, I would have been happy with at top 5-7, but to miss a podium after putting a determined last lap move was heart breaking. I’m cautiously optimistic for the season. You can’t imagine how happy and proud it made me to have a full house, while wearing my Ducati gear, and have the announcers repeatedly mention Nicky Hayden’s name during the race. I was like, yeah that’s my boy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Apr 12 2010, 10:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think he's lying... it's just not what the data show.

You make no sense

Thats the data you have access too. When you can see his telemitry then we can talk. He said he slowed down didn't have the front loaded enough and he crashed. He said that his telemitry confirms this. If you don't believe this is what happened then your basically saying he's making .... up.

Be that as it may, he ...... up and he has to live with the consequences.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 12 2010, 06:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Don't take me wrong, I'm a fan of Stoner. Some of you will remember my campaign "Give us Stoner back" last year, when (almost) everybody was considering him done.
My criticism of Stoner is always a constructive one. My post ended like this:
"Anyway, let's give him the rest of this season to prove us wrong. If even Lorenzo seems to have become wiser, why shouldn't Stoner grow up as well, eventually."

I see, i obviously took the wording of your post to be more critical than it was intended. Interestingly Stoner's opinion is that his crash was caused by his effort to play more safely. This is exactly what i have been talking about where Casey's thought his way into the gravel trap by hampering his greatest strenght while trying to be more wise. I think he'll get it sussed though, i believe he is that good.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 12 2010, 07:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I’m cautiously optimistic for the season.

As am I. It was nice to see Nicky back at the sharp end after what seems like such a long time of weaker performances. I'm not expecting him to be comparable to the 'aliens' but i think he could be in the hunt for 5th or 6th or so. Fight for top American will be worth watching wont it. Although isn't Qatar a particularly good track for Nicky? Do i recall correctly that he stalked Rossi all race long in 06 and set the fastest lap?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Apr 12 2010, 06:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think he's lying... it's just not what the data show.

like that graphic so Casey was riding smoother after the front let go in a few fast corners

25.120

9360:superfre...orseshit.jpg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Apr 12 2010, 07:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> You make no sense

Thats the data you have access too. When you can see his telemitry then we can talk. He said he slowed down didn't have the front loaded enough and he crashed. He said that his telemitry confirms this. If you don't believe this is what happened then your basically saying he's making .... up.

Be that as it may, he ...... up and he has to live with the consequences.

Well we've just seen some numbers that suggest Casey didn't 'slow down' as such. Did Stoner say he actually slowed down, or just remark that he wasn't pushing as hard? Sometimes rider will 'slow down' and actually speed up, but obviously in this case whatever change he made to his riding didn't work out.

Quick thought... Didn't Puig open his mouth when Nicky left Honda saying the Kentucky Kid wouldn't be able to set up his bike because Pedrosa wasn't in his garage? Or some other nonsense like that?

Hrmm seems to me, Nicky has been steadily improving the "unrideable" red beast, while Pedro hasn't been doing much with the Honda RC...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Apr 13 2010, 01:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> You make no sense

Thats the data you have access too. When you can see his telemitry then we can talk. He said he slowed down didn't have the front loaded enough and he crashed. He said that his telemitry confirms this. If you don't believe this is what happened then your basically saying he's making .... up.

Be that as it may, he ...... up and he has to live with the consequences.
Sorry to be unclear. I can't say what's true because, as you pointed out, we don't have exact data at time of crash. BUT the data we do have seems to indicate Casey was "on pace". That's it... no more, no less.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OahuGrown @ Apr 12 2010, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Quick thought... Didn't Puig open his mouth when Nicky left Honda saying the Kentucky Kid wouldn't be able to set up his bike because Pedrosa wasn't in his garage? Or some other nonsense like that?

Hrmm seems to me, Nicky has been steadily improving the "unrideable" red beast, while Pedro hasn't been doing much with the Honda RC...
I recall something like that, not sure if it was Puig or others, but I would say Nicky has come good on the Duc thusfar and his development skills are better than some thought...albeit slow.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 12 2010, 02:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes, I was shitting myself. Perhaps you are familiar with dugout ambience when a pitcher is throwing a no-hitter, it felt like that. I was like, “nobody move, don’t talk to me, ad for God’s sake, do not mention Nicky is in a podium position!” That’s what I was thinking, but we had a nice crowd of MotoGP enthusiast, I even finally met member Lorenzo Fan. Turns out he knows a cat that worked on my Lenny’s AMA race bike; yes it’s a very small world.

We were all hooting and hollering, but inside I was shitting bricks.
I was froze on my couch not wanting to say a thing, sort of one eye on the screen , but double taking to make sure what I was seeing was correct, then to have my damn dvr recording cut off when Nicky made that last lap pass on Dovi....ahh

nearly 24hrs have past

Q. Where's the Stoner fans.?

Does he need to calm it down
championships as a rule are won on consistency not i need to win every race