Qatar Rd 1 2017

MdubSTYLIE said:

Call me a whiner whatever. I'm not replying to your ........ again. But I can show you what it was like when I mentioned stoner every post. You weren't here then. I should add that stoner was. Although most of the people left here didn't like it was what it was. This place has gotten way to bitter. Ya'll need to lighten the .... up.

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JohnnyKnockdown said:

Im currently watching Supercross and chatting with some supercross friends. My favorite rider, who happened to be the best rider of his generation abruptly retired 2 years ago.

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Gaz said:

I went to the gym for that ............ ....... put on weight so stuff that for an idea.

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MdubSTYLIE said:

Call me a whiner whatever. I'm not replying to your ........ again. But I can show you what it was like when I mentioned stoner every post. You weren't here then. I should add that stoner was. Although most of the people left here didn't like it was what it was. This place has gotten way to bitter. Ya'll need to lighten the .... up.

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JohnnyKnockdown said:

Im currently watching Supercross and chatting with some supercross friends. My favorite rider, who happened to be the best rider of his generation abruptly retired 2 years ago. His name has never been brought up in our conversations since he quit. Why would we. He's no longer relevant. I guess Im the GOAT at putting things in the past.
Like Dub said, carry on. Don't listen to us whiners. Im sure theres some nugget of information you guys missed about why Rossi is the biggest piece of .... on the planet

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MdubSTYLIE said:

So stop being so active and spend more time on here? I knew you liked me Gazzy

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Gaz said:

I thought about taking up that MTB stuff to get active, problem is, where I live their aint no M part of the MTB

As for you, well there is a bromance from way back in the old days man of barn door teeth, diagnosis by interweb and days when they rode real bikes

............

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MdubSTYLIE said:

You don't need an M to enjoy a good trail ride. But for god sake don't good full roadie on me bro.

I miss the buck tooth intolerant days as much as you, but also I do think the present and future gp looks and is bright.

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Gaz said:

I now live around 2 kms from forests man in an area of plentiful dirt roads so no roadie for me (have a cheap ... hardtail MTB, just need to ride it more).

As for the GP's, this is interesting times as the new talent come in to challenge the old so whilst time will tell I personally hope we get a few more applecart upsets throughout the year and that we don't see usual programming resumed in terms of results

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MdubSTYLIE said:

Just get out and ride. You'll be happy you did.

My dark horse for the championship is Dovi. If it gets crazy between M&M, I think he could collect the points to be a contender.

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Gaz said:

The plan is to just get out there, ride and then wish I hadn't, only to get up ride some more until the pain goes away and so forth


As for the title, personally I cannot see Dovi as there are to many 'non-Ducati friendly' tracks as for mine, the parameters of the Ducati are either on or off where the Yamaha is on or slightly off, Honda is on or little bit more off, Suzuki has Ianonne so enough said.

Honestly, I cannot go past MM, MV or my dark horse if he were to be so classed would be Rossi, I just cannot see anyone else this year but 2018, perhaps

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MdubSTYLIE said:

The sooner you start the sooner you are not sore. If the day is going to come might as well be today.


It would take luck no doubt. The races I see as a problem for M&M is when Marc is in a mood to pass. Mav rides like JLo seems to not like to be thrown off line. It could create problems for both.

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JohnnyKnockdown said:

Nice to see a race post, and one with a little humor thrown in. This post will be quickly and summarily ignored so the Fantastic fuckwads that permeate the forum bandwith nowadays, can get back to Rosstoner circle jerk.

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MdubSTYLIE said:

You don't need an M to enjoy a good trail ride. But for god sake don't good full roadie on me bro.

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Arrabbiata1 said:

There was a certain air of inevitability about the outcome, but I find myself disagreeing with Povol's assertion (and I paraphrase) that anyone that didn't see that coming and that this was a classic case of rookie fever in the making knows nothing about racing. Granted Zarco is new to the class and thereby has much to learn about the complexity of a MotoGP bike and the differences in racecraft from Moto2 in particular. And ok, that time he put in so early on lap 4 which turned out to be the fastest of the race was perhaps inviting danger. But sod the cynicism - I thought it was ....... great.

So yeah, he gambled on the soft rear, but given the abridged race and his smooth style, as it actually that much of a reckless choice? and the stakes were low - nothing to lose. I fully expected him to not only finish the race but possibly podium. It was only when he ran a few inches wide at the notoriously lethal turn two on lap seven - which has historically randomly, arbitrarily and unfairly punished more riders than Paul bloody Butler - that it was game over.

Zarco has admitted that he was pushing hard, but attributes the problem to relaxing and letting off slightly which as we have seen so many times can catch you out. I am certain that he will podium this year and even win a few races during his tenure at T3. He's clever, he can race hard and the M1 is very conducive to his style. Not often I agree with Huewen, but it dd present the quandary that you wanted the rookie to win...but on the other hand, he's French. (Excuse the xenophobia and obligatory UK stereotypical view).

Disagree about ride of the race compa - I'd say Aleix...but on the other hand he's Spanish so I understand why you can't.

Regarding Calamity Crashloads, given that his throttle stuck open after the first off, it more for me raises the debate about the viability of riders remounting damaged machinery. He wasn't helped by his team uncharacteristically overruling his preference for the hard front without his consent and in trying to be competitive ran wide at the final turn. He assumes full responsibility for the second off and accepts that he should never have tried to rejoin the race.

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Jumkie said:

Thanks for the reply, first of all, since we're talking about Supercross, I'd like to mention what a ....... dipshit is Chump Reed. He's a chickenshit arrogant unprofessional ...........

About Zarco, great points, as usual Arrabi. It just seemed like it was inevitable because like Hernandez leading a wet race, you just knew the earth wasn't going to go off axis today. I said nothing of his tire choice, nor even suggested it in regards to his 'likely' (better?) crash. Is Zarco a rookie? Ok, rookie to the class, but is a veteran to this exact scenario. Inasmuch as Petrux, Hernandez, and I'll throw in Sykes, admittedly not unlikely leader... (Lousyring, shortened race distance) are rookies when they crashed out of their sketchy conditions leads when it seemed from my lazyboy, that everybody knew except the respective riders, that they'd crash. If I could bet my mortgage on it in that moment, I'dve ripped my pockets. It's usually fascinating when it happens, because I'm sitting there and feel I already know the certain future. Ya'll know what I'm talking about because, well frankly you guys experienced the feeling of watching this classic scenario unfold. Haven’t yet been surprised. I'd have to agree with Pov on this, it was a "classic" (that is, typical) scenario where the unlikely lead rider with unsustainable pace crashes out. We've seen this movie before. Typical (classic) in the sense we can all fire off at least several times we can recall it happening with parallel similarities: Boy rides in sketchy conditions, unlikely boy leads race, boy pulls away a gap while the veterans are bunched up behind, boy makes mistake crashes out of lead, veteran wins race in one piece.

Sure, Zarco might have been caught out by adjusting his pace, or going an inch off, etc. _______ insert explanation here. But that all was precipitated by pushing an unsustainable pace for the lead. Classic!

Regarding performance of the race. Allow me to revise; I had said Marc was probably the second best performance after Dovi. Actually, my revised list is: 1. Dovi, 2. Mav, 3. Marc. (Oddly enough, there's two Spaniels in my top 3, but how could that be? I can't possibly be objective about .... Spaniels). I've written on the forum, maybe you missed it compa, I'm officially an Aleix Espargaro fan (he didn’t pull over for the Unwritten Rule written in the hearts and minds of many spectators and last year he literally said, ".... you" to Rossi’s insistence that the track belongs to Gold Finger for practice). Him being a national of a low down rotten Spaniel has nothing to do with it compa. And while I'm at it, I'm also a Toni Elias fan, I've met the bloke, and he's a fantastic midget (and I'm short). Loves racing in America btw. Of Pis Espargaro, I'm not a fan of the crybaby. If I could bump Aleix up into the top three rides of the day, I'd do it, but from my layman's understanding of GP, I just can't justify this highly technically formulated estimated opinion of best race performances. Afterall, you have been telling me for years now what an utter piece of fecal material is the RCV. Surely worse than the Aprilia RS-GP. I mean, even a couple years ago Marc was racing with "one arm tied behind his back" Kropo, (this when the RCV was only the best bike on the grid, or I'll concede, the co-best bike to the M1 of that year) but now it's got to be arm(s) tied and blindfolded for good measure. Kropo back then suggested even the Ducati GPx was a better machine, at the time still scoreless in the win department, much less titles since...oh their only one a decade ago. So by this logic, I cannot, in full conscience, consider the RS-GP in a Christmas gifted 6th position a better performance than 4th by a piece of .... RCV (2016 title bike). Out of curiosity, how might you have estimated a 10th place RS-GP? Because without all those DNFs or Lorenzo on the Ducareerkilla, that Aprilia wouldn't have been in the top 10. I'd be willing to bet his crew wouldn't have greeted him after the race as if he'd just scored a soccer goal in the first half. Nobody knows the outcome of the game yet my friend. Qatar is the first 10 mins. They scored a goal on a ...... defense and a goalie error, with 80 mins left to play, and his crew went all Antonio Cante.

Here is another thought. Remember when we were all like, wow, Mav is making that 'piece of ....' Suzuki look good. Because, oh yeah, we really didn’t know how to compare it to the resident M1s/RCVs of the world. Did we really know the Suzuki was a POS. Please, don't deploy "unfalsifable" just yet. But Iannone didn’t quite look like he was on a dud before he went Calcutta Crunchlow on it. My point, maybe the RS-GP isn't as bad as we think? It's still a work in progress right? Like say...the GP17? At which point can we say, well, it hasn't arrived? That manufacturer that's been on the grid since a decade-plus still hasn't arrived! Just how ...... is that Ducati anyway? Because 10+ years doesn't seem to me it's progressed like it should give the GLOAT development it, right Vuu? And neither does having a bike in the game for 2-3 years mean much, right race winning Suzuki? .... if I know whether that RS-GP finished a rightful 6th, but from my perspective, it's still outside a top 10; for a factory effort, I find that unpraiseworthy (is that a word?) It's a factory entry with plenty of race experience FFS. In the era of parity leveling (concessions, spec electronics, spec tires, etc.) surely it can beat satellite teams on a regular basis? That 6th place was a mirage, Aleix Espargaro rode it masterfully to a 10th place minus the DNFs in front of him. ...., maybe Brady Smith (see what I did there) had the performance of the day. Now you can deployed "unfalsifable".

Regarding "Calamity Crashloads" (TM) I'm reminded when he's rode with serious injury, heroic it will be until he further injures himself or others, Dog forbid. Because it hasn't happened, it never will, right; that seems to be the knob we can hang our coats on when debates ensue. It's no different when you pick up a bike and assuming it's not going to cause an unforseen event. Why is it hindsight is 20/20 when we have good enough vision beforehand? Because like a bad ankle or a cuncussed brain, that could never lead to a crash, right? I agree compa, if the bike goes down, we must err on the side of caution. We must assume it's damaged. I say this to my passengers every time I pass an accident on the road, "that driver didn’t get into his car and say today I'm going to ruin my car and possibly my life on the drive to my destination."

Whatever caused the first crash for Cal ....., let's be clear, is happening far too often to be acceptable; but what caused his second crash was totally foreseeable and avoidable!

Regarding Crunche's tire choice, without his consent vs without his knowledge. It's team evaluation to decide what's the best strategy for the 'team' of which Cal is part of; however, I find it fascinating that the principal would insist on a tire choice not selected by the rider. Having said that, Calamity Cal was fully aware what tire was fixed to the wheel and should have ridden accordingly. So Cal accepted full responsibility for the second off? The team made the tire choice, as counter intuitive as that may be, it was then his responsibility to get what he could out of it wilst not crashing. He should issue an addendum to his responsibility tally statement and add the first crash in, afterall, he was at the controls. Both crashes +1 collision (I've heard) =full responsibility by rider.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

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Jumkie said:

Thanks for the reply, first of all, since we're talking about Supercross, I'd like to mention what a ....... dipshit is Chump Reed. He's a chickenshit arrogant unprofessional ...........

About Zarco, great points, as usual Arrabi. It just seemed like it was inevitable because like Hernandez leading a wet race, you just knew the earth wasn't going to go off axis today. I said nothing of his tire choice, nor even suggested it in regards to his 'likely' (better?) crash. Is Zarco a rookie? Ok, rookie to the class, but is a veteran to this exact scenario. Inasmuch as Petrux, Hernandez, and I'll throw in Sykes, admittedly not unlikely leader... (Lousyring, shortened race distance) are rookies when they crashed out of their sketchy conditions leads when it seemed from my lazyboy, that everybody knew except the respective riders, that they'd crash. If I could bet my mortgage on it in that moment, I'dve ripped my pockets. It's usually fascinating when it happens, because I'm sitting there and feel I already know the certain future. Ya'll know what I'm talking about because, well frankly you guys experienced the feeling of watching this classic scenario unfold. Haven’t yet been surprised. I'd have to agree with Pov on this, it was a "classic" (that is, typical) scenario where the unlikely lead rider with unsustainable pace crashes out. We've seen this movie before. Typical (classic) in the sense we can all fire off at least several times we can recall it happening with parallel similarities: Boy rides in sketchy conditions, unlikely boy leads race, boy pulls away a gap while the veterans are bunched up behind, boy makes mistake crashes out of lead, veteran wins race in one piece.

Sure, Zarco might have been caught out by adjusting his pace, or going an inch off, etc. _______ insert explanation here. But that all was precipitated by pushing an unsustainable pace for the lead. Classic!

Regarding performance of the race. Allow me to revise; I had said Marc was probably the second best performance after Dovi. Actually, my revised list is: 1. Dovi, 2. Mav, 3. Marc. (Oddly enough, there's two Spaniels in my top 3, but how could that be? I can't possibly be objective about .... Spaniels). I've written on the forum, maybe you missed it compa, I'm officially an Aleix Espargaro fan (he didn’t pull over for the Unwritten Rule written in the hearts and minds of many spectators and last year he literally said, ".... you" to Rossi’s insistence that the track belongs to Gold Finger for practice). Him being a national of a low down rotten Spaniel has nothing to do with it compa. And while I'm at it, I'm also a Toni Elias fan, I've met the bloke, and he's a fantastic midget (and I'm short). Loves racing in America btw. Of Pis Espargaro, I'm not a fan of the crybaby. If I could bump Aleix up into the top three rides of the day, I'd do it, but from my layman's understanding of GP, I just can't justify this highly technically formulated estimated opinion of best race performances. Afterall, you have been telling me for years now what an utter piece of fecal material is the RCV. Surely worse than the Aprilia RS-GP. I mean, even a couple years ago Marc was racing with "one arm tied behind his back" Kropo, (this when the RCV was only the best bike on the grid, or I'll concede, the co-best bike to the M1 of that year) but now it's got to be arm(s) tied and blindfolded for good measure. Kropo back then suggested even the Ducati GPx was a better machine, at the time still scoreless in the win department, much less titles since...oh their only one a decade ago. So by this logic, I cannot, in full conscience, consider the RS-GP in a Christmas gifted 6th position a better performance than 4th by a piece of .... RCV (2016 title bike). Out of curiosity, how might you have estimated a 10th place RS-GP? Because without all those DNFs or Lorenzo on the Ducareerkilla, that Aprilia wouldn't have been in the top 10. I'd be willing to bet his crew wouldn't have greeted him after the race as if he'd just scored a soccer goal in the first half. Nobody knows the outcome of the game yet my friend. Qatar is the first 10 mins. They scored a goal on a ...... defense and a goalie error, with 80 mins left to play, and his crew went all Antonio Cante.

Here is another thought. Remember when we were all like, wow, Mav is making that 'piece of ....' Suzuki look good. Because, oh yeah, we really didn’t know how to compare it to the resident M1s/RCVs of the world. Did we really know the Suzuki was a POS. Please, don't deploy "unfalsifable" just yet. But Iannone didn’t quite look like he was on a dud before he went Calcutta Crunchlow on it. My point, maybe the RS-GP isn't as bad as we think? It's still a work in progress right? Like say...the GP17? At which point can we say, well, it hasn't arrived? That manufacturer that's been on the grid since a decade-plus still hasn't arrived! Just how ...... is that Ducati anyway? Because 10+ years doesn't seem to me it's progressed like it should give the GLOAT development it, right Vuu? And neither does having a bike in the game for 2-3 years mean much, right race winning Suzuki? .... if I know whether that RS-GP finished a rightful 6th, but from my perspective, it's still outside a top 10; for a factory effort, I find that unpraiseworthy (is that a word?) It's a factory entry with plenty of race experience FFS. In the era of parity leveling (concessions, spec electronics, spec tires, etc.) surely it can beat satellite teams on a regular basis? That 6th place was a mirage, Aleix Espargaro rode it masterfully to a 10th place minus the DNFs in front of him. ...., maybe Brady Smith (see what I did there) had the performance of the day. Now you can deployed "unfalsifable".

Regarding "Calamity Crashloads" (TM) I'm reminded when he's rode with serious injury, heroic it will be until he further injures himself or others, Dog forbid. Because it hasn't happened, it never will, right; that seems to be the knob we can hang our coats on when debates ensue. It's no different when you pick up a bike and assuming it's not going to cause an unforseen event. Why is it hindsight is 20/20 when we have good enough vision beforehand? Because like a bad ankle or a cuncussed brain, that could never lead to a crash, right? I agree compa, if the bike goes down, we must err on the side of caution. We must assume it's damaged. I say this to my passengers every time I pass an accident on the road, "that driver didn’t get into his car and say today I'm going to ruin my car and possibly my life on the drive to my destination."

Whatever caused the first crash for Cal ....., let's be clear, is happening far too often to be acceptable; but what caused his second crash was totally foreseeable and avoidable!

Regarding Crunche's tire choice, without his consent vs without his knowledge. It's team evaluation to decide what's the best strategy for the 'team' of which Cal is part of; however, I find it fascinating that the principal would insist on a tire choice not selected by the rider. Having said that, Calamity Cal was fully aware what tire was fixed to the wheel and should have ridden accordingly. So Cal accepted full responsibility for the second off? The team made the tire choice, as counter intuitive as that may be, it was then his responsibility to get what he could out of it wilst not crashing. He should issue an addendum to his responsibility tally statement and add the first crash in, afterall, he was at the controls. Both crashes +1 collision (I've heard) =full responsibility by rider.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

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Gaz said:

It is the 'combat' where I can see VR sneaking a championship as I wonder how the two young alpha-males will handle it when the other is just that little better. Will we see some kamikaze efforts borne from ego, or will we continue to see the newer mature Marquez accept a position (as he seemed at Qatar, but then, he was also not fully head to head with MV) and how will MV handle being consistently race winning competitive?

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Jumkie said:

first of all, since we're talking about Supercross, I'd like to mention what a ....... dipshit is Chump Reed. He's a chickenshit arrogant unprofessional ...........

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JPSLotus said:

I don't disagree with you about Edwards' WSBK career. He did quite well there and deserved all of the success he had. But he was not MotoGP top team material as we quickly learned.

The reason MotoGP has a "succession to Rossi" issue is because Dorna created a monster they thought they could control, but obviously have not been able to do so. Instead the monster took control of them and by proxy the entire sport. As the adage goes, play with fire and get burned. They had a great opportunity with the abundance of talent they had in their grasp. They had the next generation of riders who truly were the heirs to the mantle Rossi was carrying. But in their infinite wisdom, what did they do? They went the route of creating light and darkness for their "feuds". The problem was, Rossi was always cast as the light, and everyone else was cast as darkness.

Dorna had a way to escape from all of this several times. The first was in the summer of 2007 when Rossi was threatening to quit if he were not given Bridgestone tires. Had they called his bluff, he would have had two choices. 1) Ride on Michelins for 2008 or 2) quit MotoGP. He would have rode on Michelins. Stoner might have repeated, or he might not have. But it would have put Rossi in his place effective immediately. They bent over for him instead and ceded him more power. Then there was the Ducati stint. That would have ended any other rider's career. But Dorna and Yamaha marketing colluded to get Rossi back at Yamaha, thus doing something that had never been done to that point. Gifting an aging rider a top flight ride on arguably the best bike on the grid for him. Then you have the third incident which was Sepang 2015. Dorna/FIM had the opportunity to finally throw down the gauntlet and make a statement that no one rider is bigger than the sport by hitting him with a multi-race ban and suspension of his license. Instead, they fed his stories and gave him a slap on the wrist for endangering another rider's life over some ridiculous conspiracy theory.

So what we have now is a sport that is still dependent on a 38 year old rider for it's commercial success because it burned every bridge with every other rider who could, and should have been the heir apparent or even a worthy person of promoting. Instead Dorna and the media both colluded to bury every single person and exerting their ability to influence over the fanbase at large so the burial would be complete. We were robbed of one generation talent because of this when he chose to retire rather than to deal with the blatant favoritism and ......... We watched another talent go to a team that may result in him never winning a race or title again, just so he could get away from the toxic ........ of Yamaha. And then we have one who grew up a fan of Rossi, and rode with as much passion as the former did when he was young, get buried when he dared to challenge the lies by racing head-to-head.

The latest push for Vinales is because Dorna is starting to realize the end is coming for Rossi as a racer very soon, so they need to now hit on something else. But the people who could have been that were all buried by Dorna/media/fans. Vinales is the only guy left they can put out front.

Rossi was allowed to get away with so much by Dorna who was desperate to milk the cash for everything it was worth, that they were willing to roll dice on the future of the entire sport for the sake of one man...who at the end of the day was just another in the history of the sport of grand prix motorcycle racing.

I always found it interesting how Rossi mimics the Antichrist on some level.

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aaronl said:

After last night, couldn't agree more.

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