Pedrosa possible champion??

Viper-7 · Apr 24, 2011

Its 2011 and after two rounds of Moto GP there is again a familiar site of Lorenzo leading the championship and Pedrosa in a close second.

Not many would have predicted that. Could it be possible to see Dani putting up a challenge for the championship. He is known to be a very consistent rider.

The Honda seems to be the class of the field and it is known Dani's input has been a big help in that. So could we see Stoner and Pedrosa fighting for a championship?? With Stoner already on a 11 point deficit to Dani, everyone knows that in racing every point counts.

(Please note my intention is not to market Pedrosa in any way)

Austin · Apr 24, 2011

To come away with the points haul he's earned in the first two rounds with his arm in as bad of shape as it is/was, is a remarkable achievement. Personally, I think Stoner will get the better of him (and everyone else) come the end of the season. But if Pedrosa comes back at Estoril without the dead arm he's been feeling and stays healthy this season, there's no reason to believe he won't be fighting for the championship in the closing rounds.

Duc999 · Apr 24, 2011

I understand what you are saying. But Lorenzo has been more consistent than both Pedrosa and Stoner over the last couple of years. If he stays healthy. Hell if all the riders are healthy, this will be an very exciting year. I definitely see Lorenzo walking away with Estoril. Stoner will be a close second with Dani and Spies fighting it out.

As far as the entire year, If Yamaha makes a step forward in the engine power department, I see a three way battle between Lorenzo, Stoner and Pedrosa. My heart tells me Stoner is the faster rider but if he gets frustrated he might crack. Rossi? Time will only tell if the new bike is any good. I am a Ducati man through and through but it just doesn't make sense that the Superbike has long been an excellent handling bike and the Motogp bike stumbles.

Good luck Rossi and Hayden..I am pulling for you. But I pipped Lorenzo to be multiple world champion before he step foot in motogp. He is living up to the bill. 2010 year of Stoner's Return?

2010 Lorenzo's 2nd Coronation.

evo9 · Apr 24, 2011

Jorge will toss that yamaka at least once this year trying to stay with the Hondas! That will be the equalizer for Stoner.

.

Talpa · Apr 24, 2011

Pedders does have a great shot this year but as the tracks tighten up in europe and if weather plays a role a few more times Hondas advantage is negated. Jorge will be hard to stop as I think he definately has the mind battle won after the first 2 rounds over the honda riders, especially considering pre season testing.

Rossi of course will inevitably play a role in the outcome.....

Jumkie · Apr 24, 2011

Talps, Rossi already did play a role in the outcome!

Take a look at Jerez again buddy. No, we didnt imagine the torpedo. Happy Easter. Be careful, not all those round things the rabbits are laying are eggs.

Tekniqs · Apr 24, 2011

would it be fair to say that if stoner loses the championship by more than 25 points, that the whole jerez fiasco turns into simply an unfortunate event rather than a disaster for stoner and the chip?

bigbang · Apr 24, 2011

Tekniqs said:
would it be fair to say that if stoner loses the championship by more than 25 points, that the whole jerez fiasco turns into simply an unfortunate event rather than a disaster for stoner and the chip?

Not really because those 25 points change the whole dynamics of the championship. Just an example: if Stoner was leading the championship then other riders might have been already under more pressure and make a mistake in Estoril.

Austin · Apr 24, 2011

Tekniqs said:
would it be fair to say that if stoner loses the championship by more than 25 points, that the whole jerez fiasco turns into simply an unfortunate event rather than a disaster for stoner and the chip?

It should be viewed that way regardless.

Tekniqs · Apr 24, 2011

i've never been a believer of pressure when it comes to the championship. during a race, sure. when you have another rider breathing down your neck, you're bound to make a mistake as you try to brake deeper than usual and try to get on the gas sooner. but in turns of championship standings, i don't buy into that. same reason i don't buy into what people were claiming that rossi crashed in mugello cuz of the mounting pressure lorenzo was having on him in the championship standings. it was a free practice....

Arrabbiata1 · Apr 24, 2011

Tekniqs said:
i've never been a believer of pressure when it comes to the championship. during a race, sure. when you have another rider breathing down your neck, you're bound to make a mistake as you try to brake deeper than usual and try to get on the gas sooner. but in turns of championship standings, i don't buy into that. same reason i don't buy into what people were claiming that rossi crashed in mugello cuz of the mounting pressure lorenzo was having on him in the championship standings. it was a free practice....

When I started reading this post, I knew instantly that your belief probably had its origin in the Mugello incident, only to have it actually confirmed by your last sentence. Believe what you want, the history of World Championship Motorcycle Racing is replete with examples of riders who have thrown away title bids due to mounting pressure owing to all manner of variables. Valentino himself has dismantled many a title challenge by ratcheting up the pressure both on and off the track. Regarding the Mugello crash, Rossi acknowledged that he had made a mistake on a cold tyre - which was very uncharacteristic given his methodical and measured approach during practice. I don't necessarily believe that incident could be directly attributed to the title challenge by Jorge, but the young pretenders have now come of age and are breathing down his neck. it's not 2002 anymore when he was cruising around at 70% with that stooge Okada riding shotgun and winning 11 races - although for some reason this was deemed entertaining by most Rossi aficionados at the time (I suppose it was when Tohru won at Welkom). As a season unfolds mounting pressure leads to wrong choices in set up, mistakes in both practise and races, post and pre race shenanigans in the paddock and in extreme cases increased desperation and bigger risks. To suggest that Valentino, or any other rider come to that in relative terms, is immune from pressure during the course of a World Championship is frankly absurd.

You conveniently forget that most, if not all, of the Church of Tavulia - including yourself, insist that Casey's 2008 title defence fell apart due to pressure applied by Valentino during the year which is why he 'feigned' an illness, and that the corkscrew incident encapsulated this on the track. I even recall it being said that following this 'watershed', Casey was washed up as a rider.

FTE217 · Apr 24, 2011

Pedrosa champion ? - his fellow countryman has it over him IMO - then he has Stoner to contend with on the same bike who at most times will knock off faster lap times that will frustrate him. Then you have VR to finish off the picture......

Keshav · Apr 24, 2011

Viper-7 said:
Its 2011 and after two rounds of Moto GP there is again a familiar site of Lorenzo leading the championship and Pedrosa in a close second.

Not many would have predicted that. Could it be possible to see Dani putting up a challenge for the championship. He is known to be a very consistent rider.

The Honda seems to be the class of the field and it is known Dani's input has been a big help in that. So could we see Stoner and Pedrosa fighting for a championship?? With Stoner already on a 11 point deficit to Dani, everyone knows that in racing every point counts.

(Please note my intention is not to market Pedrosa in any way)

Another junk thread.

Tekniqs · Apr 24, 2011

Arrabbiata1 said:
When I started reading this post, I knew instantly that your belief probably had its origin in the Mugello incident, only to have it actually confirmed by your last sentence. Believe what you want, the history of World Championship Motorcycle Racing is replete with examples of riders who have thrown away title bids due to mounting pressure owing to all manner of variables. Valentino himself has dismantled many a title challenge by ratcheting up the pressure both on and off the track. Regarding the Mugello crash, Rossi acknowledged that he had made a mistake on a cold tyre - which was very uncharacteristic given his methodical and measured approach during practice. I don't necessarily believe that incident could be directly attributed to the title challenge by Jorge, but the young pretenders have now come of age and are breathing down his neck. it's not 2002 anymore when he was cruising around at 70% with that stooge Okada riding shotgun and winning 11 races - although for some reason this was deemed entertaining by most Rossi aficionados at the time (I suppose it was when Tohru won at Welkom). As a season unfolds mounting pressure leads to wrong choices in set up, mistakes in both practise and races, post and pre race shenanigans in the paddock and in extreme cases increased desperation and bigger risks. To suggest that Valentino, or any other rider come to that in relative terms, is immune from pressure during the course of a World Championship is frankly absurd.

You conveniently forget that most, if not all, of the Church of Tavulia - including yourself, insist that Casey's 2008 title defence fell apart due to pressure applied by Valentino during the year which is why he 'feigned' an illness, and that the corkscrew incident encapsulated this on the track. I even recall it being said that following this 'watershed', Casey was washed up as a rider.

I simply cited that particular incident as an example since it occurred just a year ago. You have your own belief on this topic, and I'm not here to try and convince you to the contrary. And I'm not saying that Rossi is the only one that way, I think most top riders on the grid is like that.

As for your assumptions in your second paragraph, do you have you have sources of me posting stoner fell off in those races because of Rossi? Or how about me posting that he wasn't really sick? Or calling stoner washed up? What is it with this forum and placing people into categories? You can't be a fan of Rossi and not be considered as a bopper, or as an acolyte in the church of tavulia as you put it. Stoner fans are boners, etc. Probably why discussions turn into stupid name calling

michaelm · Apr 24, 2011

Duc999 said:
I understand what you are saying. But Lorenzo has been more consistent than both Pedrosa and Stoner over the last couple of years. If he stays healthy. Hell if all the riders are healthy, this will be an very exciting year. I definitely see Lorenzo walking away with Estoril. Stoner will be a close second with Dani and Spies fighting it out.

As far as the entire year, If Yamaha makes a step forward in the engine power department, I see a three way battle between Lorenzo, Stoner and Pedrosa. My heart tells me Stoner is the faster rider but if he gets frustrated he might crack. Rossi? Time will only tell if the new bike is any good. I am a Ducati man through and through but it just doesn't make sense that the Superbike has long been an excellent handling bike and the Motogp bike stumbles.

Good luck Rossi and Hayden..I am pulling for you. But I pipped Lorenzo to be multiple world champion before he step foot in motogp. He is living up to the bill. 2010 year of Stoner's Return?

2010 Lorenzo's 2nd Coronation.

Dani has not really stayed completely healthy for any of his premier class seasons, he has had fractures in most years and if not significant soft tissue injuries which have impeded him for mutiple races. This for me is the down-side of his physical stature, he just doesn't bounce well, whatever theoretical advanatage his weight gives him.

Jorge will be hard to beat in this or any future year, and consistency may take him past stoner, particularly after stoner's net loss of up to 30 points last round, through absolutely no fault of his own, which was particularly infuriating for stoner fans especially given the agent of his demise. Stoner looked like he was riding a steady tactical race as he did in the first round, and I think was unlikely to become frustrated because he was on a roll of confidence and felt in control of his own destiny. The game is now changed , in that it may well take him a minimum of 6 races to get the points back given jorge's consistency, and that if a tight 3 way battle develops honda may choose to go with pedrosa as their contender particularly if stoner has any further misfortune like a mechanical dnf.

I am a ducati man as well (not a marlboro fan though

) and whilst I think valentino is far from finished next year may be his time to challenge for a title again. I am not sure the bike is fixable with its current design; the wsbk ducati still has a traditional trellis frame chassis as far as I am aware.

michaelm · Apr 24, 2011

Talpa said:
Pedders does have a great shot this year but as the tracks tighten up in europe and if weather plays a role a few more times Hondas advantage is negated. Jorge will be hard to stop as I think he definately has the mind battle won after the first 2 rounds over the honda riders, especially considering pre season testing.

Rossi of course will inevitably play a role in the outcome.....

Why on earth has jorge had a mind battle win over stoner, unless he has inside knowledge that rossi will continue to take stoner out, which is the only (admittedly perhaps already crucial) role valentino has played so far , or is likely to play this year on current form.

Jorge basically acknowledged stoner was untouchable at qatar, and that he may have been lucky at jerez. He may beat stoner through talent and consistency, but I don't think mind battles come into it as yet unless you count lack of ability to teleport when threatened by a reckless rider as a mental deficiency in stoner.

(EDIT hadn't seen your post when I made this reply jumkie; we doubtless need to re-set our realities, or talpa needs to look at the tape of the jerez race).

Talpa · Apr 24, 2011

michaelm said:
Why on earth has jorge had a mind battle win over stoner, unless he has inside knowledge that rossi will continue to take stoner out, which is the only (admittedly perhaps already crucial) role valentino has played so far , or is likely to play this year on current form.

Jorge basically acknowledged stoner was untouchable at qatar, and that he may have been lucky at jerez. He may beat stoner through talent and consistency, but I don't think mind battles come into it as yet unless you count lack of ability to teleport when threatened by a reckless rider as a mental deficiency in stoner.

(EDIT hadn't seen your post when I made this reply jumkie; we doubtless need to re-set our realities, or talpa needs to look at the tape of the jerez race).

Yes and whether through bad luck for others, or good performances, Jorge is on top, by a margin-luck has an effect on the mind too, especially when its bad

Otherwise Casey wouldn't have been so upset now would he?

Seems as though your already prepping Jerez as your spearhead excuse for Stoner potentially not winning the title this year........Get over it already!!!! Jorge has the edge at present, reigning world champ, poor pre-season yet great title start, simple.

Your boy has to recover from adversary, soon we'll see how strong he is in the mind......

michaelm · Apr 24, 2011

Talpa said:
Yes and whether through bad luck for others, or good performances, Jorge is on top, by a margin-luck has an effect on the mind too, especially when its bad

Otherwise Casey wouldn't have been so upset now would he?

Seems as though your already prepping Jerez as your spearhead excuse for Stoner potentially not winning the title this year........Get over it already!!!! Jorge has the edge at present, reigning world champ, poor pre-season yet great title start, simple.

Your boy has to recover from adversary, soon we'll see how strong he is in the mind......

I see this year as being like 2008, with jorge finishing 2nd if he doesn't win on most occasions. This means to anyone not arithmetically challenged that stoner has to win six races to catch jorge; I appreciate that 30 probably exceeds the number of your fingers and toes. If stoner loses by less than 30 points the loss will be down to valentino and not him, a matter of mathematics rather than excuses. You are correct he will need to overcome adversary, but that adversary is jorge, against whom he has a needless handicap due to a rookie error all the worse because it was by your boy, the guy with hitherto reputedly the best bike control in history, not the likes of simoncelli or de puniet. I defy any rider not to be upset by this , including valentino; as j4rno says, that's probably why he kept his helmet on, having some concern stoner would punch him, having done so himself in similar circumstances.

I won't be surprised to see you complain if stoner does decide to start gapping the field to take "luck", or egregious rider error as anyone with normal vision who watched the jerez race would term it, out of play.

Austin · Apr 25, 2011

michaelm said:
I am not sure the bike is fixable with its current design; the wsbk ducati still has a traditional trellis frame chassis as far as I am aware.

That will change for 2012. Ducati will change their superbike to a frame similar to the one found in the GP. May not be carbon fiber, but it will be a stressed airbox piece, just like what's in the GP11. For better or worse.

yamaka46 · Apr 25, 2011

michaelm said:
I see this year as being like 2008, with jorge finishing 2nd if he doesn't win on most occasions. This means to anyone not arithmetically challenged that stoner has to win six races to catch jorge; I appreciate that 30 probably exceeds the number of your fingers and toes. If stoner loses by less than 30 points the loss will be down to valentino and not him, a matter of mathematics rather than excuses. You are correct he will need to overcome adversary, but that adversary is jorge, against whom he has a needless handicap due to a rookie error all the worse because it was by your boy, the guy with hitherto reputedly the best bike control in history, not the likes of simoncelli or de puniet. I defy any rider not to be upset by this , including valentino; as j4rno says, that's probably why he kept his helmet on, having some concern stoner would punch him, having done so himself in similar circumstances.

I won't be surprised to see you complain if stoner does decide to start gapping the field to take "luck", or egregious rider error as anyone with normal vision who watched the jerez race would term it, out of play.

Talpa has obviously riled you enough to cause you to re-set your reality into a different base than 10

If, in hypothetical land, Stoner had not been taken out by Rossi, and then Stoner had gone on to win the race he'd have had 25 more points than he ended up with in Jerez. That is the maximum he could have lost due to Rossi, mathematically as far as I can see.

I assume that the extra 5 points you are claiming come from expecting that Lorenzo would have finished second and only gained 20 points. Why not go the whole hog and surmise that if Rossi had taken out Lorenzo then Stoner would be 50 points ahead and therefore Rossi cost him 50 points by torpedoing him and not Lorenzo??

Also, as this is hypothetical land, maybe someone else would have torpedoed Stoner later in the race, maybe he would have made a mistake and crashed (lots did) and he'd still have ended up with nil points, or maybe he'd have finished and not won. 25 points is the max haul from a weekend and that's all anyone can claim to have been lost due to Rossi's error.

I would also take you to task regarding catching Lorenzo. He has a 20 point gap to Lorenzo (45 points versus 25) and that would mean him winning 4 races in order to catch Lorenzo assuming Lorenzo finishes second in those four races.

Personally, I think he will win the title this year regardless of the current points standing.

But I have been known to be wrong

Pedrosa possible champion??

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