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I never said if rossi was on a ducati, I just found it funny that you say only one ducati is doing well it is the same for yamaha I mean if we are going by how good both bikes go as a tale for how good they are it looks like suzuki is the best!

and..


A picture is worth a thousand words CS...


115sb1.jpg



and if you MUST know its... a MATERAZZI jersey
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Interestingly we are all willing to accept that Rossi's 2004 Yamaha was inferior to its competition, but claim this years Ducati is by far the best bike.

In 2004 Carlos Checa was able to achieve 38.5% of his team leaders points haul, but this season Capirossi has scored just 36% of Stoners score. Also in the context of 2007, Edwards has been able to score 54% of Rossi's points this year. If we are using both bikes in a team as a yardstick for their capabilities you will find that in fact the Yamaha deficiency isn't as bad as some like to think.

I think the main difference (as ever in bike racing) is the riders.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Sep 8 2007, 09:01 AM) [snapback]89735[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Interestingly we are all willing to accept that Rossi's 2004 Yamaha was inferior to its competition, but claim this years Ducati is by far the best bike.

In 2004 Carlos Checa was able to achieve 38.5% of his team leaders points haul, but this season Capirossi has scored just 36% of Stoners score. Also in the context of 2007, Edwards has been able to score 54% of Rossi's points this year. If we are using both bikes in a team as a yardstick for their capabilities you will find that in fact the Yamaha deficiency isn't as bad as some like to think.

All that says is that Edwards is closer to Rossi, measuring both Yamaha against one another doesn't tell you anything about overall championship performance!! Your grasping at straws to try & prove that the theoretical is truth, it dosen't become you
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bunyip @ Sep 8 2007, 05:29 AM) [snapback]89707[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Roger, Roger, Roger..........Rule no. 1 is don,t post when pissed!

I did once and I almost got away with it. haha

I don,t understand your problem with the word "pom". We aussies don,t see it as a derogatory term; just the first thing we think of to descibe enlish/uk people. No worse than "aussies" . When you get used to thinking this you should no longer be offended.

As usual I agree with muzzy matt. I,m not convinced that the Ducati is the best package. Yamaha has many strengths. The main difference this year is a young lad called Casey! The D,Antin ducatis are not much different from Caseys; have the same top speed , and yet like Loris, are nowhere. I think the conclusion is obvious. but then I am not a rusted on Rossi fanatic and I am quite sober (at the moment).


I thought everybody posted when they were pissed.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(krazy91 @ Sep 8 2007, 05:24 PM) [snapback]89730[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I never said if rossi was on a ducati, I just found it funny that you say only one ducati is doing well it is the same for yamaha I mean if we are going by how good both bikes go as a tale for how good they are it looks like suzuki is the best!

and..
A picture is worth a thousand words CS...

and if you MUST know its... a MATERAZZI jersey
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<
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Cracker of a photo! just hope that this doesn't turn to war between you both... i'm already ducking for cover
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As for the bikes, well I've already said that we will never know the whole truth about which is best will we?

So speculating & posturing will do none of us any good until the bikes are tested by that "independent & professional" tester at the end of the season.

And whether the Duck is better or not is a moot point... that particular viewpoint won't make it into the record books will it?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Goatboy @ Sep 8 2007, 09:32 AM) [snapback]89742[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
All that says is that Edwards is closer to Rossi, measuring both Yamaha against one another doesn't tell you anything about overall championship performance!! Your grasping at straws to try & prove that the theoretical is truth, it dosen't become you
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I was just using some numbers to quatify the popular talking point of "but look where the next (insert factory here) is". Obviously it opens up another can of worms because it becomes Capirossi Vs Edwards, but i just wanted to look on from another angle.

More on topic i think Yamaha are paying the price because people are automaticaly gonna look to them when the results go bad, even though i believe the rider is the limiting factor.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(krazy91 @ Sep 8 2007, 08:24 AM) [snapback]89730[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I never said if rossi was on a ducati, I just found it funny that you say only one ducati is doing well it is the same for yamaha I mean if we are going by how good both bikes go as a tale for how good they are it looks like suzuki is the best!

and..
A picture is worth a thousand words CS...
115sb1.jpg

and if you MUST know its... a MATERAZZI jersey
<


Materazzi shirt eh...?So wanna chin you thru this monitor
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(krazy91 @ Sep 7 2007, 11:34 PM) [snapback]89721[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I love this part

"only 1 ducati is doing anything good!"

its the same with the yamaha too you know...


“I love this part”, you say; well I “love” that you don’t realize you are giving more weight to the idea that it is Stoner, not the Ducati, making the difference in results. Yes, that is exactly the point! Do you realize how this is counter-logical? This comparison of similar bikes is relevant and furthermore, it does not help your side of the debate.

One again, the point of saying only one of the Ducatis is performing well is to distinguish the package between the other Ducatis, which if you analyze it the only significant difference is the rider. So one can conclude, that it is the rider that makes the difference, namely Stoner.

Similarly, since both Yamaha riders are using the "same" package, then one can conclude that the difference in the results in the two Yamahas is that Rossi is better.

Now carrying this logic, one can conclude that the difference in results between Rossi and Stoner is not necessarily the machine but rather the riders themselves. One can conclude this because they are so much better respective to similar machines. Though this logic doesn't compare the Ducati and the Yamaha directly, the indicators of this reasoning still hold true. Do you understand?

Therefore, to say it is the rider (Stoner) making the difference is not a “fanboy” comment, because it is in fact based on a reasonable conclusion. It also follows then to examine and compare how the other bikes are doing, in this case the Toner’s Ducati to other Ducatis, and Rossi’s Yamaha to other Yamahas, indicates the difference in rider performance.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Sep 8 2007, 01:01 AM) [snapback]89735[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Interestingly we are all willing to accept that Rossi's 2004 Yamaha was inferior to its competition, but claim this years Ducati is by far the best bike.

In 2004 Carlos Checa was able to achieve 38.5% of his team leaders points haul, but this season Capirossi has scored just 36% of Stoners score. Also in the context of 2007, Edwards has been able to score 54% of Rossi's points this year. If we are using both bikes in a team as a yardstick for their capabilities you will find that in fact the Yamaha deficiency isn't as bad as some like to think.

I think the main difference (as ever in bike racing) is the riders.

Absolutely Tom, great post. I mean, have we forgotten that Rossi has the second most wins of anybody on the grid this year? His bike is good, and so is Stoner’s bike. Yes, the Michelins have proven better on some tracks and the Bridgestones have proven better on other tracks, but for God’s sakes, the machines are very close.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(krazy91 @ Sep 8 2007, 12:24 AM) [snapback]89730[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>

A picture is worth a thousand words CS...
115sb1.jpg



Yes, you are right, "a picture is worth a thousand words"; however, this seems to say more about you than it does about Alphabet (and the guy annoys me too).

Hey, are you taking a ...., because that looks like a bath towel and toilet paper next to you? Nice, very witty and clever, taking a picture on your ........ Did you think of this all by yourself?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Sep 8 2007, 06:09 PM) [snapback]89804[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Absolutely Tom, great post.

Number Don't Lie
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(muzzy57 @ Sep 8 2007, 01:36 AM) [snapback]89686[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Rog,

I love a good debate as much as the next person, but with all due respect I don't think that your sensai would be very happy to hear you making such comments either via type or verbally...

[attachmentid=2248]
roger you are very bad, now paint the fence and wax the car
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JohnnyKnockdown @ Sep 7 2007, 10:13 PM) [snapback]89626[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I guess 61% of fans didn't see the numerous videos of the Ducati pulling 3 bike length's on a straight.


Yep, I think we'd all except that the Duke is the best bike and that Stoner is a world class rider, which is making the bike look better, and the die-hard Rossi fans don't want to admit the Rossi is being beaten because of his inferiority.

Although I do think if Rossi was on the Duke he'd also be winning races like Casey.

Phil
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phildean @ Sep 8 2007, 02:27 PM) [snapback]89825[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>

Although I do think if Rossi was on the Duke he'd also be winning races like Casey.


Hi Phil. Very interesting. What other riders might be winning like Stoner if they were on his bike? Would you say perhaps the top three riders from last year would be able to succeed on a Ducati, since the bike is so good?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JohnnyKnockdown @ Sep 7 2007, 02:13 PM) [snapback]89626[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I guess 61% of fans didn't see the numerous videos of the Ducati pulling 3 bike length's on a straight.

You make a point, but I'm skeptical if it really is that significant. Perhaps it would be if this were the NHRA drag racing. But because it could "pull" away on the straight doesn't necessarily make it a better bike. Think back to the 500s with all that brute power. It was the bike that could turn better that usually won, why wouldn't that apply now? I'd say the Yamaha has great corner speed and breaking (look at the ground Rossi can make up going into and during a curve when viewed from the Helo view). So does this make the Yamaha a better bike? Well if we are gonna use one, and only one parameter to judge the bike (by saying "look how it pulled away") to say which bike is superior is rather not very accurate.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phildean @ Sep 9 2007, 07:27 AM) [snapback]89825[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Although I do think if Rossi was on the Duke he'd also be winning races like Casey. Phil


Phil... I have to go along with that, but will make the point that there's no guarantee's that Vale would get along with the Duck/Bridgey combination after such a long time on Michelins.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Sep 9 2007, 03:43 AM) [snapback]89809[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
roger you are very bad, now paint the fence and wax the car
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I'm glad that you "got" the underlying humour in that!
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Cheers brother
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racejumkie, I said in a earlier post in THIS thread that stoner is doing Good, I was not trying to say if rossi had this or this or this he would win. I just said that at both ducati and yamaha its mainly one guy who is doing good!! Also Im sorry to disappoint you but unfornately that is not my toliet and or toliet paper try again.
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Muzzy. I was saying, theoretically, Rossi has the talent to emulate Casey on the Duke, but as for plain ability, we'll never know.

Phil
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phildean @ Sep 9 2007, 09:55 AM) [snapback]89833[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Muzzy. I was saying, theoretically, Rossi has the talent to emulate Casey on the Duke, but as for plain ability, we'll never know.

Phil


Oh I agree completely... I wonder if Vale regrets not taking Ducati up on their offer at the moment?
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What a partnership that would've been, an Italian legend, with an Italian manufacturer.

It sure would've shut them Aussies up:p

Phil
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Shoulda Coulda Woulda ... We're living in the here and now people, whats happening is happening, so deal with it.. Stoner's a class above this year and thats the hard fact..

All you Rossi fan boys should shut your yappers (especially you Rog.. who gets pissed and posts on a forum? get a life much?) I say let Stoner have his glory for 2007, he's well and truly earned it, then, bring on next year, i cant wait for 2008, the .... is gonna hit the fan...
 

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