Official Thread - practice & qualifying, MOTEGI
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perdro sucls
As I said in another thread.
Lorenzo & Nicky probably have access to Dani's super Sachsenring wet tyres that nobody else was allowed to have whilst Dani & Puig ruled Michelin.
Now Dani doesn't have them he is nowhere and all of a sudden a wet track duffer like Jorge is near the top. Nicky is pretty good in the wet anyway but Dani & Jorge have never been much chop in damp conditions. Jorge's podium at Indy was his first wet podium ever.
Now if they screwed the other Michelin riders in the wet, what makes anyone think a similar thing hasn't happened in the dry conditions?
Lorenzo & Nicky probably have access to Dani's super Sachsenring wet tyres that nobody else was allowed to have whilst Dani & Puig ruled Michelin.
Now Dani doesn't have them he is nowhere and all of a sudden a wet track duffer like Jorge is near the top. Nicky is pretty good in the wet anyway but Dani & Jorge have never been much chop in damp conditions. Jorge's podium at Indy was his first wet podium ever.
Now if they screwed the other Michelin riders in the wet, what makes anyone think a similar thing hasn't happened in the dry conditions?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frizzle @ Sep 25 2008, 10:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As I said in another thread.
Lorenzo & Nicky probably have access to Dani's super Sachsenring wet tyres that nobody else was allowed to have whilst Dani & Puig ruled Michelin.
Now Dani doesn't have them he is nowhere and all of a sudden a wet track duffer like Jorge is near the top. Nicky is pretty good in the wet anyway but Dani & Jorge have never been much chop in damp conditions. Jorge's podium at Indy was his first wet podium ever.
Now if they screwed the other Michelin riders in the wet, what makes anyone think a similar thing hasn't happened in the dry conditions?
frizz i see your a fan of the leX files.
Lorenzo & Nicky probably have access to Dani's super Sachsenring wet tyres that nobody else was allowed to have whilst Dani & Puig ruled Michelin.
Now Dani doesn't have them he is nowhere and all of a sudden a wet track duffer like Jorge is near the top. Nicky is pretty good in the wet anyway but Dani & Jorge have never been much chop in damp conditions. Jorge's podium at Indy was his first wet podium ever.
Now if they screwed the other Michelin riders in the wet, what makes anyone think a similar thing hasn't happened in the dry conditions?
frizz i see your a fan of the leX files.
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Nice try Fizz but weather conditions hardly called for a wet tire. At 10am Motetgi start time weather was 22-23°C and the 150s would have cleared the dew off the track. 250s have posted quicker times as the track warms but non of the 800s were on wets.
Edit: Just read the report for 150s and they said light rain, 250s dry, for MotoGP damp then drying. My Motegi weather feed said no precipitation, sorry! Still don't believe 800s were on full wets.
Edit: Just read the report for 150s and they said light rain, 250s dry, for MotoGP damp then drying. My Motegi weather feed said no precipitation, sorry! Still don't believe 800s were on full wets.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Sep 26 2008, 01:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>frizz i see your a fan of the leX files.
Not really mate but
Lets remember Dani was over 6 seconds in front of everyone after 5 or 6 laps @ Sachsenring.
Now I would rate - Edwards, Hayden & Dovisioso way way way better than Dani in wet conditions if they were on the same tyre. Now that Dani isn't with Michelin we find Jorge has found his webbed feet too. I don't trust Michelin mate and I think the results of the last few wet races speak for themselves as far as Michelin are concerned. Dani is now on Bridgestones and is running were we would expect him to be in the wet. Next year, when and if Jorge is on Stones as well. I bet you will find he is also at the back of the grid in the wet again.
Not really mate but
Lets remember Dani was over 6 seconds in front of everyone after 5 or 6 laps @ Sachsenring.
Now I would rate - Edwards, Hayden & Dovisioso way way way better than Dani in wet conditions if they were on the same tyre. Now that Dani isn't with Michelin we find Jorge has found his webbed feet too. I don't trust Michelin mate and I think the results of the last few wet races speak for themselves as far as Michelin are concerned. Dani is now on Bridgestones and is running were we would expect him to be in the wet. Next year, when and if Jorge is on Stones as well. I bet you will find he is also at the back of the grid in the wet again.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 26 2008, 01:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nice try Fizz but weather conditions hardly called for a wet tire. At 10am Motetgi start time weather was 22-23°C and the 150s would have cleared the dew off the track. 250s have posted quicker times as the track warms but non of the 800s were on wets.
Edit: Just read the report for 150s and they said light rain, 250s dry, no report for MotoGP yet but obviously was drying. My Motegi weather feed said no precipitation, sorry! Still don't believe 800s were on full wets.
Come off it mate even Nicky at the top of the sheets was doing about 12 seconds a lap slower than dry times last year. It was wet.
Edit: Just read the report for 150s and they said light rain, 250s dry, no report for MotoGP yet but obviously was drying. My Motegi weather feed said no precipitation, sorry! Still don't believe 800s were on full wets.
Come off it mate even Nicky at the top of the sheets was doing about 12 seconds a lap slower than dry times last year. It was wet.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 26 2008, 02:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No doubt it was wet - but I do doubt whether tire choice were full wets in those conditions. Cut slicks would be the obvious choice.
12 seconds a lap tells me they weren't ready for anything other than a wet tyre. Another 20 minutes or so and it might have been different.
Last years 250cc results - wet with a control tyre.
250cc Race Classification
Pos. Points Num. Rider Nation Team Motorcycle Total time Km/h Gap
1 25 36 Mika KALLIO FIN Red Bull KTM 250 KTM 48'28.585 136.672
2 20 34 Andrea DOVIZIOSO ITA Kopron Team Scot Honda 48'33.478 136.442 4.893
3 16 80 Hector BARBERA SPA Team Toth Aprilia Aprilia 48'50.112 135.668 21.527
4 13 55 Yuki TAKAHASHI JPN Kopron Team Scot Honda 48'52.073 135.577 23.488
5 11 3 Alex DE ANGELIS RSM Master - Mapfre Aspar Aprilia 48'53.963 135.490 25.378
6 10 60 Julian SIMON SPA Repsol Honda 250cc Honda 49'10.849 134.714 42.264
7 9 58 Marco SIMONCELLI ITA Metis Gilera Gilera 49'17.367 134.417 48.782
8 8 4 Hiroshi AOYAMA JPN Red Bull KTM 250 KTM 49'26.367 134.009 57.782
9 7 73 Shuhei AOYAMA JPN Repsol Honda 250cc Honda 49'37.634 133.502 1'09.049
10 6 12 Thomas LUTHI SWI Emmi - Caffe Latte Aprilia Aprilia 49'39.422 133.422 1'10.837
11 5 1 Jorge LORENZO SPA Fortuna Aprilia Aprilia 49'41.620 133.324 1'13.035
12 4 76 Seijin OIKAWA JPN Will Access With Plus Myu Yamaha 49'54.956 132.730 1'26.371
13 3 16 Jules CLUZEL FRA Angaia Racing Aprilia 50'04.821 132.295 1'36.236
14 2 75 Youichi UI JPN Malossi & Spruce & Pro-Tec Yamaha 50'15.683 131.818 1'47.098
15 1 19 Alvaro BAUTISTA SPA Master - Mapfre Aspar Aprilia 50'18.666 131.688 1'50.081
16 15 Roberto LOCATELLI ITA Metis Gilera Gilera 50'27.326 131.311 1'58.741
17 41 Aleix ESPARGARO SPA Blusens Aprilia Germany Aprilia 50'35.367 130.963 2'06.782
18 10 Imre TOTH HUN Team Toth Aprilia Aprilia 50'39.000 130.807 2'10.415
19 50 Eugene LAVERTY IRL Honda LCR Honda 48'36.503 130.375 1 Lap
20 77 Yuki HAMAMOTO JPN TEC-2 & Kyushukyoritsu Univ. Yamaha 48'37.028 130.351 1 Lap
Jorge was 1 minute 13 seconds from the winner on equal tyres in the wet at Motegi last year and 1 minute 9 seconds from Dovi. If anyone wants more examples I'm only too happy to oblige.
Michelin do favour certain riders and I think Dani has been the beneficiary on most occasions.
12 seconds a lap tells me they weren't ready for anything other than a wet tyre. Another 20 minutes or so and it might have been different.
Last years 250cc results - wet with a control tyre.
250cc Race Classification
Pos. Points Num. Rider Nation Team Motorcycle Total time Km/h Gap
1 25 36 Mika KALLIO FIN Red Bull KTM 250 KTM 48'28.585 136.672
2 20 34 Andrea DOVIZIOSO ITA Kopron Team Scot Honda 48'33.478 136.442 4.893
3 16 80 Hector BARBERA SPA Team Toth Aprilia Aprilia 48'50.112 135.668 21.527
4 13 55 Yuki TAKAHASHI JPN Kopron Team Scot Honda 48'52.073 135.577 23.488
5 11 3 Alex DE ANGELIS RSM Master - Mapfre Aspar Aprilia 48'53.963 135.490 25.378
6 10 60 Julian SIMON SPA Repsol Honda 250cc Honda 49'10.849 134.714 42.264
7 9 58 Marco SIMONCELLI ITA Metis Gilera Gilera 49'17.367 134.417 48.782
8 8 4 Hiroshi AOYAMA JPN Red Bull KTM 250 KTM 49'26.367 134.009 57.782
9 7 73 Shuhei AOYAMA JPN Repsol Honda 250cc Honda 49'37.634 133.502 1'09.049
10 6 12 Thomas LUTHI SWI Emmi - Caffe Latte Aprilia Aprilia 49'39.422 133.422 1'10.837
11 5 1 Jorge LORENZO SPA Fortuna Aprilia Aprilia 49'41.620 133.324 1'13.035
12 4 76 Seijin OIKAWA JPN Will Access With Plus Myu Yamaha 49'54.956 132.730 1'26.371
13 3 16 Jules CLUZEL FRA Angaia Racing Aprilia 50'04.821 132.295 1'36.236
14 2 75 Youichi UI JPN Malossi & Spruce & Pro-Tec Yamaha 50'15.683 131.818 1'47.098
15 1 19 Alvaro BAUTISTA SPA Master - Mapfre Aspar Aprilia 50'18.666 131.688 1'50.081
16 15 Roberto LOCATELLI ITA Metis Gilera Gilera 50'27.326 131.311 1'58.741
17 41 Aleix ESPARGARO SPA Blusens Aprilia Germany Aprilia 50'35.367 130.963 2'06.782
18 10 Imre TOTH HUN Team Toth Aprilia Aprilia 50'39.000 130.807 2'10.415
19 50 Eugene LAVERTY IRL Honda LCR Honda 48'36.503 130.375 1 Lap
20 77 Yuki HAMAMOTO JPN TEC-2 & Kyushukyoritsu Univ. Yamaha 48'37.028 130.351 1 Lap
Jorge was 1 minute 13 seconds from the winner on equal tyres in the wet at Motegi last year and 1 minute 9 seconds from Dovi. If anyone wants more examples I'm only too happy to oblige.
Michelin do favour certain riders and I think Dani has been the beneficiary on most occasions.
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Frizz - looking back at how long it took the track to dry last year I see your point. 2008 FP1 times are almost identical to 2007 race times before riders swapped bikes. Full wets for all!
I'm not much for conspiracy theories but yours has gained credibility - something's changed for the riders you've mentioned.
I'm not much for conspiracy theories but yours has gained credibility - something's changed for the riders you've mentioned.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Sep 25 2008, 07:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>frizz i see your a fan of the leX files.
I love how facts people don't like are now part of the lex files.
Yes. Pedrosa has special Michelins. Rossi accused Michelin of building tires for Pedrosa as early as 2006. It was confirmed when Michelin slipped up and the press got wind of the fact Pedrosa had special tire equipment (front tire) removed from his tire selection at Jerez this year.
Poor Dani was forced to ride the standard profile like everyone else. Obviously, Ezy wasn't going to watch Dani bite the bullet at his home round, especially since he was carrying the Michelin flag for Fukui. Ezy wanted to see a Lorenzo/Pedrosa showdown and Dani was way off the pace. Michelin recommended different compounds for Dani (hard rear tire). The rest is history.
Everyone else was on medium/medium and struggling with front end push. Not Dani boy. Smooth sailing to the home-market checkered flag.
The part about Ezy is part of the lex files, everything else is fact.
I love how facts people don't like are now part of the lex files.
Yes. Pedrosa has special Michelins. Rossi accused Michelin of building tires for Pedrosa as early as 2006. It was confirmed when Michelin slipped up and the press got wind of the fact Pedrosa had special tire equipment (front tire) removed from his tire selection at Jerez this year.
Poor Dani was forced to ride the standard profile like everyone else. Obviously, Ezy wasn't going to watch Dani bite the bullet at his home round, especially since he was carrying the Michelin flag for Fukui. Ezy wanted to see a Lorenzo/Pedrosa showdown and Dani was way off the pace. Michelin recommended different compounds for Dani (hard rear tire). The rest is history.
Everyone else was on medium/medium and struggling with front end push. Not Dani boy. Smooth sailing to the home-market checkered flag.
The part about Ezy is part of the lex files, everything else is fact.
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FP2 Times here. For live feed try www.justin.tv/azoto. Not sure if they are broadcasting but could be your best shot.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 26 2008, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Frizz - looking back at how long it took the track to dry last year I see your point. 2008 FP1 times are almost identical to 2007 race times before riders swapped bikes. Full wets for all!
I'm not much for conspiracy theories but yours has gained credibility - something's changed for the riders you've mentioned.
Wow another open minded poster. Good stuff.
It's hard to know what's going on when the weather is dry, but when a couple of poor wet weather racers are all of a sudden kicking ..., then something is very fishy. Don't take it as a bash because it's not. I don't believe in putting any riders down. Jorge and Dani are super quick in dry conditions but guys that aren't ever on pace in the rain do not improve overnight.
I'm not much for conspiracy theories but yours has gained credibility - something's changed for the riders you've mentioned.
Wow another open minded poster. Good stuff.
It's hard to know what's going on when the weather is dry, but when a couple of poor wet weather racers are all of a sudden kicking ..., then something is very fishy. Don't take it as a bash because it's not. I don't believe in putting any riders down. Jorge and Dani are super quick in dry conditions but guys that aren't ever on pace in the rain do not improve overnight.
Looks like Ducati is having a good time so far in the dry, all of their riders in the top 10. If Pedrosa gets on the front row again it will be Stoner holeshot, followed by Pedrosa, and someone like Hayden stuck next with Rossi behind him. Let's hope for a dry race day, the entire race distance. Although last years switcheroo race was pretty entertaining I must say.
weather forecast for Motegi, Japan according to weather.com:
http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/busi...topnav_business
weather forecast for Motegi, Japan according to weather.com:
http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/busi...topnav_business
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frizzle @ Sep 26 2008, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Wow another open minded poster. Good stuff.
It's hard to know what's going on when the weather is dry, but when a couple of poor wet weather racers are all of a sudden kicking ..., then something is very fishy. Don't take it as a bash because it's not. I don't believe in putting any riders down. Jorge and Dani are super quick in dry conditions but guys that aren't ever on pace in the rain do not improve overnight.
Well Dani had some good placings last year (and even the year before I think) and this year there has been wet at least in one session in every race except the obvious ones, LC and Quatar and finally Misano was the exception with all dry sessions. In other words, the two has had plenty of wet wether training and as we saw with Hayden, it's possible to learn quite quickly.
Get used to it, those guys will be up there in the rain next year as well, control tire or not.
It's hard to know what's going on when the weather is dry, but when a couple of poor wet weather racers are all of a sudden kicking ..., then something is very fishy. Don't take it as a bash because it's not. I don't believe in putting any riders down. Jorge and Dani are super quick in dry conditions but guys that aren't ever on pace in the rain do not improve overnight.
Well Dani had some good placings last year (and even the year before I think) and this year there has been wet at least in one session in every race except the obvious ones, LC and Quatar and finally Misano was the exception with all dry sessions. In other words, the two has had plenty of wet wether training and as we saw with Hayden, it's possible to learn quite quickly.
Get used to it, those guys will be up there in the rain next year as well, control tire or not.
Okay, no more chatter on 5 different threads.
FP2 was a weird session. Rossi and Pedrosa looked like squids. Every time they tried to push they ended up off line. Stoner looked uncomfortable and uninspired. Loris was riding like it was 2006. The bike was moving all over the place and he looked comfortable. The new Suzuki chassis changes seemed to have helped and the new Bridgestone front is helping.
The weird part was Hayden, Lorenzo, and Verme.
It didn't seem like they were out on track at all the second half of the session.
It could be a good race. Stoner, Pedrosa, Rossi are all relatively close and each looks capable of going a bit faster on race day. It will be interesting to see who can make the proper adjustments for Sunday.
FP2 was a weird session. Rossi and Pedrosa looked like squids. Every time they tried to push they ended up off line. Stoner looked uncomfortable and uninspired. Loris was riding like it was 2006. The bike was moving all over the place and he looked comfortable. The new Suzuki chassis changes seemed to have helped and the new Bridgestone front is helping.
The weird part was Hayden, Lorenzo, and Verme.
It didn't seem like they were out on track at all the second half of the session.
It could be a good race. Stoner, Pedrosa, Rossi are all relatively close and each looks capable of going a bit faster on race day. It will be interesting to see who can make the proper adjustments for Sunday.
