Official Sepang Race Discussion Thread

[MigsAngel]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Oct 20 2008, 08:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Regarding Dovizioso's exploit, well done, I am a fan of Dovi and he is really, really good.
But I would not blame Hayden too much. Hamane was seen in Dovi's garage before the race and these things always mean something. in the present situation Honda surely want Dovi to beat Nicky... Surely Dovi's Honda is getting more factory attention since his contract was signed in Motegi...!

Clearly the conspiracy can be the only real reason Dovi beat Nicky....because thinking Dovi may actually have talent and be able to ride that well could not possibly be the real reason.....afterall Dovi results all season have been crap up until after he signed his HRC contract.....

 

[Arrabbiata1]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ Oct 20 2008, 08:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Clearly the conspiracy can be the only real reason Dovi beat Nicky....because thinking Dovi may actually have talent and be able to ride that well could not possibly be the real reason.....afterall Dovi results all season have been crap up until after he signed his HRC contract.....

Like the opening race in Qatar!!!??

 

[babelfish]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Oct 20 2008, 09:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Like the opening race in Qatar!!!??
Irony is a difficult thing.

 

[yamaka46]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 20 2008, 04:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Don't think he is just after wins ...... But there is one important milestone/record he will very likely get after Valencia ....... the most points in any season ..... currently Rossi shares that honour with Stoner ..... and he only needs a 5th place or better to beat it.
You are quite correct that 367 is the max points taken in one season, and that it has been done by both Rossi and Stoner.

However the number of races in each season (and hence the available points) need also to be taken into account. In 2005 there were 17 races (425 max points score) whereas in 2007/8 there were/will be 18 races (450 max points score).

In 2005 Rossi scored 86.4% of the available points, in 2007 Stoner scored 81.6%.

So far Rossi is on 79.3% in 2008 and the max he can do is to win in Valencia, which would make it 382 out of 450, ie 84.9%.

I believe that the best ratio ever was Doohan in 1997 with 340 points from a possible of 375 (15 races), ie 90.7%

 

[R1 SF]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Oct 20 2008, 08:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You are quite correct that 367 is the max points taken in one season, and that it has been done by both Rossi and Stoner.

However the number of races in each season (and hence the available points) need also to be taken into account. In 2005 there were 17 races (425 max points score) whereas in 2007/8 there were/will be 18 races (450 max points score).

In 2005 Rossi scored 86.4% of the available points, in 2007 Stoner scored 81.6%.

So far Rossi is on 79.3% in 2008 and the max he can do is to win in Valencia, which would make it 382 out of 450, ie 84.9%.

I believe that the best ratio ever was Doohan in 1997 with 340 points from a possible of 375 (15 races), ie 90.7%

Wow, I did'nt know that. Thats what you call domination.

 

[chopperman]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Oct 20 2008, 08:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You are quite correct that 367 is the max points taken in one season, and that it has been done by both Rossi and Stoner.

However the number of races in each season (and hence the available points) need also to be taken into account. In 2005 there were 17 races (425 max points score) whereas in 2007/8 there were/will be 18 races (450 max points score).

In 2005 Rossi scored 86.4% of the available points, in 2007 Stoner scored 81.6%.

So far Rossi is on 79.3% in 2008 and the max he can do is to win in Valencia, which would make it 382 out of 450, ie 84.9%.

I believe that the best ratio ever was Doohan in 1997 with 340 points from a possible of 375 (15 races), ie 90.7%

Damn Yamaka, i take my hat off to you buddy

 

[R1 SF]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Oct 20 2008, 08:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Good point. It really did look like NH was being held back by an invisible hand. But I still wish Nicky would've tried something stupid.

What something like you just typed

 

[yamaka46]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Oct 20 2008, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Damn Yamaka, i take my hat off to you buddy

Cheers, mate.

Just happen to like messing with stats on stuff like this to see what shows up. It was Barry's comment that made me think - Doohan won 12 one season.... which year was it and how many races were there that year? Wiki provided the rest of the info

 

[Keshav]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Oct 20 2008, 11:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Someone in this forum commented recently that Rossi owns Pedro - they're spot on. Vale only has to show him a wheel and he caves in faster than a Lehman's Brothers private equity scheme.

Regarding Rossi domination - awesome, you just run out of superlatives for the guy. I just hope we don't return to the dark days of '02, 03 and '04 when he wasn't in the same race as anyone else, because I really can't see anyone taking it to him next season.

I dunno . . . I think Stoner still has fire in the belly and wants revenge. And Lorenzo on Bridgestones will IMO will kick some ... in his second year.

In general - I think it should be interesting to see what some of the guys - new to Ducati in '09 will do. Never know when another guy with an affinity for the Ducati will appear. Stoner can't be the only one in the universe.

 

[parcferme]

Re: Dovi and Nicky

Nicky showed that backing it in doesn't work anymore. Dovi had much more drive out of the corners because he wasn't squaring them off while Nicky was waiting for his machine to wind up because he lost all his speed locking up the rear. Maybe if we were still running 990s or 500 strokers, Nicky's style would still work.

It's funny because I've actually downplayed the "riding style" arguments for most of the season, but having Dovi and Hayden next to each other for most of the race made it quite obvious that the smooth line is the faster line.

Maybe this won't matter on the Duc, but if it does Nicky definitely needs to adapt. If he isn't screaming at the front like Stoner can after half a season (at least in FPx or Q or half a race), he will definitely need to change his style because there's only 3 spots on the podium and Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo, Pedrosa, and maybe Dovi will all be there trying to push each other off.

 

[#22]

Did anyone see De Puniet's little 'moment' with 2 laps to go? I thought for a second he was going to drop it there!

 

[chopperman]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#22 @ Oct 20 2008, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Did anyone see De Puniet's little 'moment' with 2 laps to go? I thought for a second he was going to drop it there!
that was a pretty hairy moment

 

[Jumkie]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ Oct 20 2008, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Clearly the conspiracy can be the only real reason Dovi beat Nicky....because thinking Dovi may actually have talent and be able to ride that well could not possibly be the real reason.....afterall Dovi results all season have been crap up until after he signed his HRC contract.....

Migs, I give credit to Dovi, but don't underestimate man's willingness to save face by manipulation, that is the way of the world. Its done in all facets of life, your job, government, etc, sports are not immune. It’s the nature of man. We don't know but certainly it would make sense if this result helped legitimatize HRC's decision (think of the alternate, Hayden beats Dovi the last 3-4 races would bring into question their decision). I'm saying, could this happen? In the world we live in, yes. Did it happen, well that is what we are here for, speculation. Now this sport is about an edge, we all talk about it wins or lose, would you agree? So yes, its 'possible' he 'may' have been given an edge. Either way, Hayden still should have beaten him. But HRC stood to gain most in face if Dovi beat him. Both did great, and I think edge or not, it sure seemed like Dovi just wanted it more (or needed it more). Full props to Dovi, and as I said before, bummed for Nicky.

 

[J4rn0]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ Oct 20 2008, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Clearly the conspiracy can be the only real reason Dovi beat Nicky....because thinking Dovi may actually have talent and be able to ride that well could not possibly be the real reason.....afterall Dovi results all season have been crap up until after he signed his HRC contract.....

Stating that Honda loves the idea of Dovi beating Hayden now, and that they must be acting accordingly, giving more factory assistance, is not a conspiracy theory--it is some knowledge of how things happen in GP. It's part of the game. Nothing wrong.

Then of course no amount of additional factory assistance would allow a poor rider to prevail. Dovi is a champion. I was just saying, please do not blame Hayden too much... Dovi is no more on a vanilla private Honda, rest assured!

 

[Jumkie]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Oct 20 2008, 12:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Like the opening race in Qatar!!!??
Migs was being sarcastic.

 

[Jumkie]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R1 SF @ Oct 20 2008, 01:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What something like you just typed

I admit R1, I was hoping he would go for broke too. I was kicking and screaming for him to get ahead of Dovi.

 

[SackWack]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Oct 20 2008, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe this won't matter on the Duc, but if it does Nicky definitely needs to adapt. If he isn't screaming at the front like Stoner can after half a season (at least in FPx or Q or half a race), he will definitely need to change his style because there's only 3 spots on the podium and Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo, Pedrosa, and maybe Dovi will all be there trying to push each other off.


You make it sound like you know there will be close racing next year. We can only hope. Like Lex pointed out, there hasn't been one battle to the finish this year, not a single last lap battle for the win

At least in 2007 there was 2 battles for the win.

I don't know about the whole backing it in thing. Hayden was how far from Dovi? Looked to me like he was one or two mistakes from taking the podium. I think Hayden lost most of his ground by missing his breaking points, not backing it in. Dovi never made one mistake (as far as what was shown on tv), which is something to be said for a rookie. Dovi has, more than once this year, made last lap blunders to cough up more than one posistion. I wouldn't say that he is going to challenge for the championship next year but he will be challenging for regular podiums just like in 250cc. This race he kept it together despite the heavy pressure from Hayden. He rode a damn good race and deserved the podium. I am happy for him.

 

[Jumkie]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Oct 20 2008, 02:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't know about the whole backing it in thing. Hayden was how far from Dovi? Looked to me like he was one or two mistakes from taking the podium. I think Hayden lost most of his ground by missing his breaking points, not backing it in. Dovi never made one mistake (as far as what was shown on tv), which is something to be said for a rookie. Dovi has, more than once this year, made last lap blunders to cough up more than one posistion. I wouldn't say that he is going to challenge for the championship next year but he will be challenging for regular podiums just like in 250cc. This race he kept it together despite the heavy pressure from Hayden. He rode a damn good race and deserved the podium. I am happy for him.

I usually agree with you when it comes to MotoGP (too bad your are the Sarah Palin of when it comes to politics).

As for this idea about backing it in, yes I agree. Babel or Migs (can’t remember which said it I think, sometimes I can't tell the haters apart) said that this style was not the fastest way. But I disagree, I think its a competitive way around. Gary McCoy proved many intuitive theories wrong, and I think it’s the same case here.

Anyway, Dovi as you said did not make any mistakes, as Hayden did have a breaking mistake, but he gained it back. But I think it just came down to who was more willing to leave it all on the line. Hayden felt it more important to finish and Dovi felt it might be better to podium. Its NOT like either of them just mailed it in, geez they both were on the limit. This time Hayden got beat, last time it was Dovi.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>"I tried everything I could, I was pushing the front quite a lot, through Turn Three mainly. Maybe I should have tried something a little more silly on the last lap, that's always hindsight, but sure I'll beat myself up tonight, thinking I should have taken some bigger chances, but I was already pushing hard.

"Congratulations to Dovi on his first podium, he earned it," added the 2006 MotoGP world champion.

On another related note, I was suprized to see Nicky's tires last the race (or did they).

 

[ROCKGOD01]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Oct 20 2008, 09:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I dunno . . . I think Stoner still has fire in the belly and wants revenge. And Lorenzo on Bridgestones will IMO will kick some ... in his second year.

In general - I think it should be interesting to see what some of the guys - new to Ducati in '09 will do. Never know when another guy with an affinity for the Ducati will appear. Stoner can't be the only one in the universe.
I agree with you about that fire in his belly. He is a killer rider and really has been if not the fastest really one of them.

Now think about this for a minute or so. Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Hayden, Dovi. Besides Sucksuki and Crapasaki team riders these are the guys we are going to be seeing on the podiums next year. The order will be different for the most part but I think we all know that these guys will be dominating the podium next year. NOw as far a Gibernau goes he could be in there it just depends on how much he needs to do in order to get back to race shape. Unless there are some surprises where another rider from another team hits the mark I think our champ for 09 is sitting in that list. Anyone except the moron bunch have a idea on that or a comment?

 

[yamaka46]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Oct 20 2008, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree with you about that fire in his belly. He is a killer rider and really has been if not the fastest really one of them.

Now think about this for a minute or so. Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Hayden, Dovi. Besides Sucksuki and Crapasaki team riders these are the guys we are going to be seeing on the podiums next year. The order will be different for the most part but I think we all know that these guys will be dominating the podium next year. NOw as far a Gibernau goes he could be in there it just depends on how much he needs to do in order to get back to race shape. Unless there are some surprises where another rider from another team hits the mark I think our champ for 09 is sitting in that list. Anyone except the moron bunch have a idea on that or a comment?
Seems most likely to me that the champ will be one of these 6. Lets just hope for some decent racing before we find out which one.