No Vaseline for Hayden and Redding

MotoGP Forum

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Messages
4,934
Location
unda cheese
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/mcn/sport/sportresults/motogp/2014/april/apr3014-no-honda-update/




When we first saw the Proddy lap times it was speculated by many, that Honda would be compelled to update the billke out of sheer embarassment.

We were forgetting that Honda has no shame and will do whatever they please.

Their excuse is that they are still analyzing the data. Apparently there is a rocketship hidden in there somewhere that Hayden and Redding have failed to discover.

Maybe it's taking them so long because they have the insider analyzing the data and he is backed up analyzing all that data for Kawasaki lawnmowers
 
It sounds like they have one intern figuring out how to wrangle an extra half-horsepower from the RCV. Although I may be over-estimating their commitment to the project.
 
Popular topic alert.


The RCV-Rs were placed on the grid as filler for Dorna. What HRC got in return is anybody's guess. When the grid goes full Dorna ECU then HRC will install the unit on their Repsol machines. The RCV-Rs will be obsolete (though in terms of performance they are obsolete now). Grid filler, thats the only purpose they provide.


Krop has tried to portray the open class as Dorna's "vision for the future" as part of the favorable propaganda campaign for the League. But the open class is an evolution of the CRT which was introduced as a stop gap from a depleted field in an emergency crisis because the FIM couldn't sanction the series if the grid dipped under 17! A depleted field as a result of skyrocket cost from rulebook changes that were justified as cost cutting. Reminds me of another "vision for the future" we've read about, that of expanding TV audience. Except the last TV deals have significantly reduced audience. And how about those formula changes to "increase safety", a vision since its implementation has seen GP suffer 2 deaths. A "vision for the future" that has the opposite effect of the official stated purpose is a recurring pattern, but that won't stop many from believing the not so sophisticated messaging by our trusted journalists.


"We are still evaluating the data." I'd say thats hilarious but its simply a blatantly disingenuous statement. I remember at one test (reported on MCN), HRC brought 30 chassis for Pedrosa to test. But we are supposed to believe they are stumped by the data that clearly shows the RCV-R is woefully slow? Forget the Insider, they need to hire Prof Dr. Povol to analyze the speed trap speeds charts.


CRT=Open=Grid Filler=FIM sanction=Appearance of authentic championship
 
I don't think anyone (except the "insider", maybe) ever saw these machines as anything more than grid filler. They are, as you pointed out, an evolution of the CRTs, and one step below the satellite bikes. Given that this is supposed to be a single-class championship, a bike that has no hope for a podium only serves two purposes: 1) fill up the grid by giving less affluent teams a means of entry, and 2) give lower-tier riders a chance to demonstrate their abilities. And before anyone asks how riding a dog-slow customer bike can help anyone prove anything, let's remember that Aleix earned a competitive ride on the strength of his imaginary CRT world titles.
 
Imagine how much slower it would be on regular tires.  AE is putting up good lap times while also being under powered compared to the factory bikes. That means he's riding the .... out of that old M1. The Honda may actually be a little better than what it's showing with Hayden being a complete disappointment so far, and Redding still being a rookie it's hard to say, so even if it was a decent bike it's hard to say how bad it is with three mediocre riders and a rookie aboard. 
 
As we are learning now the production bike is just a glorified CRT. Right now it sits on top of the CRT phantom championship. I'm not sure how you can equate what they're doing on that bike as underachieving or not getting all they can from it. The bike was not built to beat factory or satellite bikes. It's finishing right where it's supposed to finish every week.
Nicky has run neck and neck with every teammate he's had over the past years except Stoner. I wouldn't consider Rossi or Dovi, mediocre riders. Not the best but certainly second-tier.
As far as Redding being just as fast as him it seems that nowadays with all the electronics rookies don't have as much of a learning curve and are fast right away.
 
The bike is a piece of ..... That's clear but really, who cares? The bike was developed to fill grid spots. It was never intended to compete. It's being ridden by 4 guys who would never win a race on any bike. So you have 4 guys who can't win riding a bike that can't win. It all amounts to nothing. Honda knows this. They're under no pressure to throw money and effort at 3 has been's and a crash prone guy who's only resume line says "Moto2 Runner up."

I know it's a ...... deal but these 4 guys are only in the series because;

1. Nicky - sells/and he's the last Yank for a long time
2. Hiro - Japanese token rider
3. Karel - Dad's money
4. Scott - The English apparently need another mediocre talent they'll elect King.......Oh, and the fact that the UK tele deal is so lucrative and necessary.

So, Honda loses nothing. They've got the two best bikes and they look poised to win many more titles. I think Honda will scuttle this program quietly at the end of the season and move on to another scheme.
 
The bike is a piece of ..... That's clear but really, who cares? The bike was developed to fill grid spots. It was never intended to compete. It's being ridden by 4 guys who would never win a race on any bike. So you have 4 guys who can't win riding a bike that can't win. It all amounts to nothing. Honda knows this. They're under no pressure to throw money and effort at 3 has been's and a crash prone guy who's only resume line says "Moto2 Runner up."

I know it's a ...... deal but these 4 guys are only in the series because;

1. Nicky - sells/and he's the last Yank for a long time
2. Hiro - Japanese token rider
3. Karel - Dad's money
4. Scott - The English apparently need another mediocre talent they'll elect King.......Oh, and the fact that the UK tele deal is so lucrative and necessary.

So, Honda loses nothing. They've got the two best bikes and they look poised to win many more titles. I think Honda will scuttle this program quietly at the end of the season and move on to another scheme.

I dont understand the thanks button. What are you thanking for? Is it a replacement for like?

Realistically Levi, most of the grid is just grid filler. You can run down the list of most of the riders and argue that they could never win a race, even on a factory honda
 
I dont understand the thanks button. What are you thanking for? Is it a replacement for like?

Realistically Levi, most of the grid is just grid filler. You can run down the list of most of the riders and argue that they could never win a race, even on a factory honda

I don't know what that thanks thing is either. I saw it on your post earlier and tried to see what it does? IDK?

True, but I still don't think Honda is under any real pressure to improve the bike.
 
The bike is a piece of ..... That's clear but really, who cares? The bike was developed to fill grid spots. It was never intended to compete. It's being ridden by 4 guys who would never win a race on any bike.

What up bro. Ok, All 4 of those guys you mention won races when they were on bikes with fairy equal parity to their rivals at the time, fact. In your mind's eye, exchange the riders with the factory bikes (works M1/RCV) with the riders on the proddies, please tell me which do you think would end up winning a race? Marc, Pedro, Lorenzo, Rossi? You can put Marc (the current standard I suppose) on any of the proddies, the best he gets would be mid pack. After a few races of that most people would be saying, jeez that kid sucks. Now put Redding on the Repsol bike and he would be top 5, if not on the podium about every race (under the current parity of the grid). Then most of us would be saying, jeez that kid is good. Same goes for Nicky who would at least be matching VR (top 4). Here is the reality of the "championship" There are 4 bikes, and 2 now need to be ridden at high risk (Yamahas) to keep up with the Hondas. We have a 4 (2) bike championship. Why on earth do we assign so much accolade to a guy who is beating the other 3 on the better bike? For god sakes, even VR won a race and several podiums the minute he was gifted a 1/4 chance of doing so (return to M1). Those are awesome odds to succeed, 1/4. Even better if its 1/2 as it is for the Repsol bikes. I know Marc is a special talent, but when his rivals had similar machines, on any given races he was pushed around by Pol Esp and Iannone, now they can't come within the same area code. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Smith never won a solitary Moto2 race, now look at him, up there being relevant. Why? My answer, the parity of the machines is much more to do with the finishing order than we accept.

Often the case has been made, well, if you put them ALL on Repsol Hondas the finishing order would be the same as it is now. To which I say ......... Perhaps we haven't been paying attention to Moto2 enough, but on any race you'd be hard pressed to predict the winner. Why? Because the bikes are fairly equal. Yes there is still a parity gap in terms of teams and technical set up, and talent etc.; but as you can see, the parity also allows for riders to compete with eachother--no such reality exist in MotoGP. So sorry buddy, but saying these four riders on proddies "couldn't win on any bike" (I'm assuming you are including the Repsol RCV in this scenario) is a bit devoid of what happened when these riders competed with others on equal footing.

All you need to know about the parity of the championship is too look at A.Espargaro's lap times. A beefed up prototype M1 with Q ties competing with CRTesk bikes. That won't stop spectators and journalists from singing the praises of his lap times. So why make the same illogical conclusion with the proddy riders?
 
Ha! Well it would be more honest and descriptive a name. I prefer MotoWWF personally. I dont know man, I guess for the most part we all get it here because we follow the sport more than most. So generally we are all well informed. I think time and time again we get examples of how parity effects outcomes, but it seems every chance we get (usually every race) we simply throw the lessons out the window. Most recently for example, VR was for years the gold standard, as is Marc today. Yet for 2 years on a full factory works bike (Ducati) he was lucky to finish midpack, thus the guy who wasnt just an "alien" he was considered 'thee alien'. When he returned to the only 4 win worthy bikes, he was 4th (and remains there now). 4th is good right? But not if u entered a race of 4 bikes, then 4th is last. Consider that when one of those 4 bikes DNFs then your practically guaranteed a podium. This is why the prediction threads are absurd. As absurd as a prediction thread for the next WWE match.
 
Well, every race weekend I think oh look, this guys doing really well in the practice sessions, maybe he can win/podium. Then race day they just crash or go backwards... Like Aleix Espargaro all season....
 
As we are learning now the production bike is just a glorified CRT. Right now it sits on top of the CRT phantom championship. I'm not sure how you can equate what they're doing on that bike as underachieving or not getting all they can from it. The bike was not built to beat factory or satellite bikes. It's finishing right where it's supposed to finish every week.
Nicky has run neck and neck with every teammate he's had over the past years except Stoner. I wouldn't consider Rossi or Dovi, mediocre riders. Not the best but certainly second-tier.
As far as Redding being just as fast as him it seems that nowadays with all the electronics rookies don't have as much of a learning curve and are fast right away.
Nicky is a former GP champion and factory level rider that has years and years of experience on these tracks and tires, he should be schooling the .... out of the other 3.
 
Nicky is a former GP champion and factory level rider that has years and years of experience on these tracks and tires, he should be schooling the .... out of the other 3.

He should but he isn't......I am not surprised.....
 
He should but he isn't......I am not surprised.....

So, if you and I were handed the exact same bicycle to race around a parking lot and after 10 laps or so you beat me by 8 seconds would it be agreeable to say that you didn't "school the ...." out of me?

I suspect that Scott doesn't feel the same about the ... kicking he was handed today.
 
If I was Nicky, I would announce retirement at the Indy Press Conference. Citing no interest in being a grid filler. That should have Carmelo & Company finding a competent package real fast.
 
I believe Nicky was .3 off the pace of the satellite Ducati's and Yamaha's in order to get into QP2. Proddy not so bad?
 

Recent Discussions

Back
Top