My Jorge

Gaz · May 25, 2018

synn said:
I see a sole piece of unverifiable info from a journalist no one has heard of on a malaysian site, citing no sources. That’s not “Widely reported” as you previously claimed.

Everything starts out unverified and moreso this type of scuttlebutt.

For any journalist to use his source for chatter like this will only impact/impede that source dropping the same commentary next time as they (the source) will likely be disciplined and the journalist blacklisted.

Where there is smoke, there is fire but in saying that, I think that the power in the Yamaha team/garage is not with Jarvis

RG500Gamma · May 25, 2018

Gaz said:
You do not lose your talent overnight, nor via an excursion to Ducati - as Rossi had showed.

Sure, he may well go back with the tail between the legs but Yamaha could do far worse than welcome him back as afterall, they will have bikes that do not yet have a home.

My opinion only ............. a manufacturer would be absolutely stupid mot to sound out Jorge as we have to remember that Yamaha seem to have gone downhill since he left whilst Ducati went uphill ....... sure, it may be coincidence but then it may be influence

In hindsight his move to Duc was majorly stupid, but then again financial motivation was there and he made a lot of money. And looking at Marc’s form and Yamaha’s issues in 2017 I don’t think he would have made any difference. Just my opinion

synn · May 25, 2018

michaelm said:
See Barry's link to the same report on what I believe is an Italian site, possibly where the other site obtained it, not that I see any reason why a report from Malaysia, a country with its own GP (EDIT and premier class competitor), should be inherently unreliable. Perhaps 'well' which is what I actually said rather than 'widely' was an exaggeration, but as I said anticipating your reply it is what you choose to believe, and you guys are happy to accept David Emmett's not infrequently speculative reports when it suits you.

It's another article that syndicates the same reporter.

Why haven't any credible news outlet syndicated it or reported directly?

p.s. The country of Malaysia has nothing to do with the fact that the news site you quoted has a Malaysian domain and no track record.

synn · May 25, 2018

RG500Gamma said:
In hindsight his move to Duc was majorly stupid, but then again financial motivation was there and he made a lot of money. And looking at Marc’s form and Yamaha’s issues in 2017 I don’t think he would have made any difference. Just my opinion

J.Lo wanted Rossi Money and Rossi fame.
He got the first and the Rossi Ducati track record as a bonus.

michaelm · May 25, 2018

RG500Gamma said:
Ok I understand what you meant now. And I agree with you to some degree on some folks being too harsh on criticizing Marc’s apology timing but I think at least based on what I’ve read that most of Rossi’s fans were rather questioning the sincerity of the apology and if he genuinely wanted to apologize or was he just doing it because Puig told him so and to avoid another lash out from Rossi’s fans. Either way it’s all moot as I don’t think those two will ever be on good terms again after 2015.
To address the feasibility of the pass, Marc admitted being at fault, race direction ruled he was at fault and I understand if some of his fans think the move was feasible but these are the facts. I don’t think Marc would say he was at fault just to calm everyone down.

Anyways, we shouldn’t clog this thread about Marc and Rossi this is supposed to be about Jorge.

He said he was at fault because he had a minor lose, he did not say the pass wasn't feasible.

The issue is the disparity with the Jerez 2011 pass which was in much worse conditions and was not feasible as Rossi demonstrated by putting his bike down, taking Stoner out for which he was not penalised, and Stoner who was the injured party being pilloried for a much milder reaction to Rossi's attempt at an apology than MM received from Rossi's garage.

Gaz · May 25, 2018

RG500Gamma said:
In hindsight his move to Duc was majorly stupid, but then again financial motivation was there and he made a lot of money. And looking at Marc’s form and Yamaha’s issues in 2017 I don’t think he would have made any difference. Just my opinion

Financial .......... yes

But I suspect that it was not the only motivator given the antipathy that had enveloped the Yamaha garage and like Rossi before him Lorenzo did not and would not have questioned his ability so for him, the decision would have been a no brainer when you weigh all up.

I stand by the interesting 'coincidence' that Lorenzo leaves Yamaha and backward they go whilst at the same time Ducati rise but I happily cede that Gabbarini back at Ducati may have been helpful as well.

Fact remains that no matter if or how he may have helped Ducati become better, he has not helped himself meet the challenge so I fully suspect that he will be else where and when he does, he will again be considered a front runner as he will get results,

michaelm · May 25, 2018

synn said:
It's another article that syndicates the same reporter.

Why haven't any credible news outlet syndicated it or reported directly?

p.s. The country of Malaysia has nothing to do with the fact that the news site you quoted has a Malaysian domain and no track record.

At least it actually exists, as I say the original source seems to be a Spanish or Italian site, whereas you 'liked' a post from your fellow partisan in which it was contended that Uccio had invented being the author of the PI 2015 MM helping Lorenzo by beating him conspiracy theory, and that Uccio must have had Rossi's approval to tell MM to .... off when he appeared at the front of the garage despite Rossi being well behind him.

This is a tactic from those of your ilk when challenged, to try to pick on some minor detail which in this case had some substance anyway while ignoring the main thrust of an argument; I should know, I have debated fiercer Rossi partisans than you.

synn · May 25, 2018

michaelm said:
At least it actually exists, as I say the original source seems to be a Spanish or Italian site, whereas you 'liked' a post from your fellow partisan in which it was contended that Uccio had invented being the author of the PI 2015 MM helping Lorenzo by beating him conspiracy theory, and that Uccio must have had Rossi's approval to tell MM to .... off when he appeared at the front of the garage despite Rossi being well behind him.

This is a tactic from those of your ilk when challenged, to try to pick on some minor detail which in this case had some substance anyway while ignoring the main thrust of an argument; I should know, I have debated fiercer Rossi partisans than you.

I can find an article that actually exists about the earth being flat.
Does it have credibility because it exists?

RG500Gamma · May 25, 2018

synn said:
J.Lo wanted Rossi Money and Rossi fame.
He got the first and the Rossi Ducati track record as a bonus.

€12m a year is a lot of money, I wonder if he knew he would struggle at Duc if he’d still done it or stay at Yamaha.

pyeman · May 25, 2018

synn said:
I can find an article that actually exists about the earth being flat.
Does it have credibility because it exists?

I'll bet you think the Apollo missions went to the moon and not some crappy Nevada film set don't you?..

michaelm · May 25, 2018

synn said:
I can find an article that actually exists about the earth being flat.
Does it have credibility because it exists?

Again you avoid the point. The article was a minor side issue, to which I gave some credibility obviously partly because it agrees with my view of events, and as I said if Rossi did instruct Uccio to tell MM to .... off then he is a hypocrite imo, and if Yamaha are not annoyed with Uccio’s behaviour as someone not a member of the Yamaha factory racing team as far as I am aware then they should be.

Your fellow partisan suggested their relations will always be strained because of 2015; MM seems quite prepared to move on as far as I can tell despite being the rider taken out by a deliberate illegal move, he has just gone on with the business of winning more world championships, so if you and your fellow partisan are to justify Rossi continuing to have the attitude he apparently has you are implicitly accepting his +/- Uccio’s version of events, for which there is no evidence, particularly in regard to the PI conspiracy theory whoever might be the original author of that theory.

I am actually fairly familiar with standards of evidence as it happens, not that I necessarily always apply them posting on an Internet fan forum, but it is the apparent belief of people such as you that only others are biased with which I take issue.

synn · May 25, 2018

michaelm said:
Again you avoid the point. The article was a minor side issue, to which I gave some credibility obviously partly because it agrees with my view of events, and as I said if Rossi did instruct Uccio to tell MM to .... off then he is a hypocrite imo, and if Yamaha are not annoyed with Uccio’s behaviour as someone not a member of the Yamaha factory racing team as far as I am aware then they should be.

Your fellow partisan suggested their relations will always be strained because of 2015; MM seems quite prepared to move on as far as I can tell despite being the rider taken out by a deliberate illegal move, he has just gone on with the business of winning more world championships, so if you and your fellow partisan are to justify Rossi continuing to have the attitude he apparently has you are implicitly accepting his +/- Uccio’s version of events, for which there is no evidence, particularly in regard to the PI conspiracy theory whoever might be the original author of that theory.

I am actually fairly familiar with standards of evidence as it happens, not that I necessarily always apply them posting on an Internet fan forum, but it is the apparent belief of people such as you that only others are biased with which I take issue.

Let me kick you in the nuts in front of your friends and see how nice they are to me, with or without your permission.

michaelm · May 25, 2018

synn said:
Let me kick you in the nuts in front of your friends and see how nice they are to me, with or without your permission.

And yet again you avoid the point.

Rossi has done worse to MM, and to Stoner, without any hangers on carrying on like Uccio.

p4p1 · May 25, 2018

synn said:
Let me kick you in the nuts in front of your friends and see how nice they are to me, with or without your permission.

Terrible analogy.

synn · May 25, 2018

michaelm said:
And yet again you avoid the point.

Rossi has done worse to MM, and to Stoner, without any hangers on carrying on like Uccio.

What's the point?

That you tried to build up a story of a "Widely reported" incident of Uccio getting scolded by Yamaha, which I promptly tore down and you have since steadily backpedaled from?

Or that someone on the forum said Uccio might have gotten permission from Rossi to stand up to Marquez which is suddenly the gospel truth?

Or that a guy standing up for his childhood friend in front of an inconsiderate competitor is somehow a villain now?

Go find a new hobby, Mitchell. Trolling doesn't work for you.

michaelm · May 25, 2018

synn said:
What's the point?

That you tried to build up a story of a "Widely reported" incident of Uccio getting scolded by Yamaha, which I promptly tore down and you have since steadily backpedaled from?

Or that someone on the forum said Uccio might have gotten permission from Rossi to stand up to Marquez which is suddenly the gospel truth?

Or that a guy standing up for his childhood friend in front of an inconsiderate competitor is somehow a villain now?

Go find a new hobby, Mitchell. Trolling doesn't work for you.

Different standards applying to Rossi and/or his hangers on than to others is my entire point which you have never and are incapable of refuting, and the reason for my attitude to Rossi rather than any dispute with his quality as a rider in his pomp or his achievements, as I have explained at tiresome length, although not as tiresome as your inevitable reversion to argumentum ad hominem when you have nothing else, which seems to be quite often.

synn · May 25, 2018

We can apply the same standards to Rossi after he attempts to mow down half the field over one weekend.

p4p1 · May 25, 2018

I thought boppers liked hard racing?

The thing that continue to get overlooked is the speed difference between Marquez and everyone else and more importantly that there was only one dry line on the track. It was always going to cause some touching and what Rossi experienced was just some touching. He has hit riders far harder than what happened in Argentina.

michaelm · May 25, 2018

synn said:
We can apply the same standards to Rossi after he attempts to mow down half the field over one weekend.

You pivot from the ad hominem logical fallacy to the red herring fallacy.

The score is Rossi has taken out MM twice, once by an absolutely deliberate move rather than by any error; some say the other incident was deliberate as well, which I don't contend myself, but the evidence for it being so is at least compelling as for Rossi's (and Uccio's) lunatic conspiracy theory regarding PI 2015, from which they do not resile. In the case of both Argentinian incidents the rider taken out could have avoided crashing out of the respective races by accepting the inevitable ie that they were being passed by a much faster rider.

Why, btw, does Mr 9/7 titles Rossi at the age of 39 require the presence of a childhood friend in his garage to reprove competitors who offend him by hitting them over the head with his handbag?. MM who is currently 25 seems to be capable of acting on his own behalf, as was Stoner at Jerez 2011 when he was also 25. I strongly suspect Stoner's wife was in the garage at Jerez, but neither he nor she seemed to perceive any need for any involvement from her.

danski · May 25, 2018

p4p1 said:
I thought boppers liked hard racing?

The thing that continue to get overlooked is the speed difference between Marquez and everyone else and more importantly that there was only one dry line on the track. It was always going to cause some touching and what Rossi experienced was just some touching. He has hit riders far harder than what happened in Argentina.

The other thing that is overlooked (because of the single incident focus) is the multiple incidents leading up to that one.

My Jorge

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