Motorsports obsession with America.

F1 has been trying to crack the USA forever. While it seems to have for now, I tend to disagree. The American owners (Liberty) have doubled down on 2 things. 1. Elitism and 2. The location.

All the celebrities and elites were at Miami 2022, to the point where I was hearing prices of $1000+ a day for general tickets for what is basically a glorified car park track. For 2023, I heard from reliable sources that tickets were discounted to as low as 30% of 2022 prices as they weren't selling. FLash forward to Vegas, the track layout looks bland and ...., and is again going to be a glorified road and car park (i.e. races around concrete barriers and fences). I was in Vegas a few weeks ago and the hotel we were at on the strip is list rooms with NON TRACK views, for $1900 A NIGHT. I've heard ticket prices are similarly insane. I personally think both will be short lived, for once the celebrities and tik-tokers move onto the next craze, no one else will want (or be able to afford) to attend the race.

The new MotoGP Chief has expressed a desire for 'major expansion' in the USA which again, I do not see as a good thing. I get trying to tap into US markets (and hence money), but the very same people who have complained about Italy or Spain getting multiple races, now want multiple races in the same (albeit much larger) country.

New MotoGP chief in talks for major expansion in USA

We've already seen MGP copy the F1 sprint race format, I hope they don't go further down the same slippery slope. Regarding tracks, where would they go? They could possibly do Indy again. Watkins Glen and Mid O are awesome tracks but would highly likely never be certified. Mid O doesn't have the pit facilities for starters. NJMP, Road Atlanta, Barber and NOLA are the only tracks FIA grade 2 certified. Utah Motorsports is not, but has held WSBK races in the past.

#22 said:

F1 has been trying to crack the USA forever. While it seems to have for now, I tend to disagree. The American owners (Liberty) have doubled down on 2 things. 1. Elitism and 2. The location.

All the celebrities and elites were at Miami 2022, to the point where I was hearing prices of $1000+ a day for general tickets for what is basically a glorified car park track. For 2023, I heard from reliable sources that tickets were discounted to as low as 30% of 2022 prices as they weren't selling. FLash forward to Vegas, the track layout looks bland and ...., and is again going to be a glorified road and car park (i.e. races around concrete barriers and fences). I was in Vegas a few weeks ago and the hotel we were at on the strip is list rooms with NON TRACK views, for $1900 A NIGHT. I've heard ticket prices are similarly insane. I personally think both will be short lived, for once the celebrities and tik-tokers move onto the next craze, no one else will want (or be able to afford) to attend the race.

The new MotoGP Chief has expressed a desire for 'major expansion' in the USA which again, I do not see as a good thing. I get trying to tap into US markets (and hence money), but the very same people who have complained about Italy or Spain getting multiple races, now want multiple races in the same (albeit much larger) country.

New MotoGP chief in talks for major expansion in USA

We've already seen MGP copy the F1 sprint race format, I hope they don't go further down the same slippery slope. Regarding tracks, where would they go? They could possibly do Indy again. Watkins Glen and Mid O are awesome tracks but would highly likely never be certified. Mid O doesn't have the pit facilities for starters. NJMP, Road Atlanta, Barber and NOLA are the only tracks FIA grade 2 certified. Utah Motorsports is not, but has held WSBK races in the past.

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Motorsport is basically in it's third turning, imo. The first turning was the marketing of the on track events. The second turning was the Bernie glamor. The third turning is the Liberty Media reality TV show, in which the on track events are merely part of a reality TV content package. I don't think any business investors believe motorsport is here to stay. It's just another entertainment property passing through human culture, and eventually it will go extinct or experience a significant downturn and settle at a new equilibrium, like horse racing.

Honestly, the things you outline in your post are much more attributable to Bernie. He was the one who moved F1 into the realm of pop culture, and Monaco was his glitzy car park. Liberty media are maintaining Bernie's game, but they are trying to move F1 into the zeitgeist--the news cycle. They're not trying to attract American fans. They are merely trying to attract information and content consumers in the West. And why do they care about the US? China and India are much bigger markets for attracting viewership, but no one can insert a Western socio-political drama into Chinese or Indian content pipelines. India and China flirted with F1 for a while, but the US is the only realistic upside for a potential investor.

Unfortunately, MotoGP will be moving in the same direction now that they've hired a former NBA-exec. They will be focused on their standing in the digital content media space, and their sway with influencers. Once upon a time, the hardcore fans were the influencers that moved markets. That's not the way it works anymore. Influencing is no longer an amateur affair carried out by fans on forums. Influencing is big-business, and ordinary people are losing their seat at the table. What Kim Kardashian thinks about MotoGP is more important than fans who've been watching for 2-3 decades. Is this situation unique to America? I don't think so. The US is just the place where they understand how this debauchery works.

#22 said:

F1 has been trying to crack the USA forever. While it seems to have for now, I tend to disagree. The American owners (Liberty) have doubled down on 2 things. 1. Elitism and 2. The location.

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It is all so sad. Any real race aficionado can see that Liberty doesn’t give a rat’s ... about racing or the fans and neither did Bernie. I was at Phoenix in 1990 and 1991. The venue was .... at a .... time of year and the track was .... as well. I actually can’t believe I went back in 91.

Fast forward to today. No real fan is going to go to a make believe track in Vegas or Miami. At least I hope not.

I also believe that motorsports is on its way out. I hope it hangs in a little longer, ‘cause I still like watching it. However, let’s be real. Besides the seemingly inevitable electrification, the technology in both F1 and MotoGP has made the driver/rider not exactly redundant but the days of watching a superior talent impose their will over lesser talent with better machinery are pretty much over. Even rain is not usually enough to upset the apple cart.

There’s a reason that fast tracks on natural terrain became beloved by both fans and participants. I don’t know how to correct the situation. Laguna is such a track, but as has been mentioned many times, the logistics are just impossible for the modern circus. There isn’t enough $5000/night or whatever the price is hotel space in Monterey to make it worthwhile.

Barber?

Even though it’s crazy, The oval at Indy and the track at Daytona could still host a major deal and we’d watch the racing there just because of the history.

I’m afraid there won’t be a happy ending though.

Meanwhile I’ll still hope an underdog can still wrest away some glory once in a while.

F1 seems confident they will be using ICE's for a good while, but with renewable fuels. With the money in F1, I just don't see them bowing and merging with Formula E.

Liberty is rapidly bringing F1 towards a heavily US based series with these car park tracks in fancy cities (I bet NYC will be next). Basically 'whoever will pay us the most' What I have never understood is why the classic European circuits don;t just form a cartel and say "You want to race here? You pay US motherfuckers"

F1, and any circuit racing is nothing without the circuits. The business model to me, is completely ...... because the circuits never make any money from the deals. In fact it costs them millions of dollars every year, and that's AFTER you take into account the ticket sales.

As the ex F1 doctor, Gary Hartstein, put it.

I’ve just built a bottling factory. Modern, efficient, state-of-the-art. And you, well you have a soft drink you need bottled. A very popular soft drink indeed. People all over the world want to drink it. And you want to use MY factory to bottle it!


When the time comes to do the deal, you tell me “there’s just one thing Gary. Our business model is a bit . . . unconventional. You see, normally I’d pay to use your factory. But since my beverage is SO popular, YOU’RE gonna have to pay ME for the privilege of hosting my drink”.


I guess you see the concerned look on my face. My factory cost money to build. It costs money to maintain. Everybody ELSE rents my factory when they want to use it. I seek reassurances.


“Don’t worry a bit, Gary, you can run guided tours and have people pay to see your factory working. And you can serve them lunch!”


I guess you see what I’m getting at. I’ll have to charge $100 for a tour, and get 100,000 people over the weekend. No way that’s gonna happen. A guaranteed loss. Every time. Damn.

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#22 said:

F1 seems confident they will be using ICE's for a good while, but with renewable fuels. With the money in F1, I just don't see them bowing and merging with Formula E.

Liberty is rapidly bringing F1 towards a heavily US based series with these car park tracks in fancy cities (I bet NYC will be next). Basically 'whoever will pay us the most' What I have never understood is why the classic European circuits don;t just form a cartel and say "You want to race here? You pay US motherfuckers"

F1, and any circuit racing is nothing without the circuits. The business model to me, is completely ...... because the circuits never make any money from the deals. In fact it costs them millions of dollars every year, and that's AFTER you take into account the ticket sales.

As the ex F1 doctor, Gary Hartstein, put it.

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The tracks could form a cartel, and squeeze the racing series to dictate which series survive or thrive, if the sport were actually based on selling the ontrack spectacle. Since Bernie's game was created, governments are bidding for access to the politico-corporate blowbang known as F1. They want access to corporate oligarchs. They want access to politicians. They want their crystal dish full of nose candy. They want their escorts and their private rooms, and they want to play their little games of bribery and blackmail and influence pedaling.

Plus, why do the tracks care how much it costs? They are just stealing the money from taxpayers via special event taxes, hospitality taxes, and the rest. It's basically a competition to see who can steal the most from the attendees and taxpayers to curry favor with Uncle Bernie. Liberty are just taking it to new levels by making the media platform more potent, providing access to bigger corporate overlords, and by luring richer municipalities with dumber residents who have no expectation of receiving anything in the form of public services.

Bernie is a tosser. He presided over the disastrous lead sled hybrid era. He is known as this no BS non politically correct guy. Yet this green virtue signalling nonsense started under him and could lead to the spit up of F1.

They are already talking about reducing tire use more and more to save the planet. One day , maybe Red Bull and Ferrari will say F it and start their own series. And let this green virtue signalling series die.

F1 is even talking about leaving Monaco and Spa. For more destination tracks. Imagine F1 leaves these tracks and Red Bull starts a new series with V-8's and 2005 sized cars and they raced on these tracks.

So yeah. I like the sprints. But Moto GP has to stop copying F1

Welcome, love your user name! I was a big CART fan back in the day. Anyone who is a tosser is always described as 'no BS' just because they are rich. Correction,l they are just ....... arseholes.