MotoGP 2017 - Team & Rider Changes

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Rossi said he expected more out of the M1 engine. Not sure what to make of that. Yamaha relative to Honda and Ducati have never been about the outright power. So I don't know what he was expecting...unless he thinks the RCV and Desmo are going to be rocketships down the straights, and he's going to have to spend more time trying to cut down that advantage through corners.
 
JPSLotus said:
I don't put much stock in him being 6 tenths off right now as this was just purely a benchmarking/shakedown session. Still his gap was better than Rossi's 2010 Valencia test. Looked very comfortable on the bike otherwise, and the bike looked very smooth in his hands.
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Indeed, he brought it down to less than 2 tenths by the end of the day, very encouraging, go Jorge!

Agreed, Rossi was what, 1.5s off on his first day? I remember him looking very uncomfortable on the bike, hardly leaning etc, Lorenzo looks at least comfortable on the thing. I can't wait until January to know what he thinks of it.

ETA: Krop has reported Lorenzo is happy on the bike, it's still early days but that's promising.

https://motomatters.com/analysis/2016/11/15/valencia_motogp_test_initial_trackside.html

According to Israeli TV reporter Tammy Gorali who spoke to Ducati staff, Lorenzo's feedback was very positive. He was very happy with the way the bike brakes, and with the power of the machine. He felt very comfortable on the bike, and felt able to push. By lunchtime, Lorenzo was half a second off the pace of fastest man Valentino Rossi.
Click to expand...
 
#22 said:
Agree JPS, though I prefer the sound of the screamer! That said, nothing will ever beat the Ducati 800 screamer for sound.

I was relieved to see Lorenzo was smiling after his first few runs, and her certainly looks to be attacking the track more than Rossi did on his Ducati debut. He's 6/10 off the top, so I see that as encouraging.
Click to expand...


I prefer the Kawasaki screamer over the Ducati




 
#22 said:
Indeed, he brought it down to less than 2 tenths by the end of the day, very encouraging, go Jorge!

Agreed, Rossi was what, 1.5s off on his first day? I remember him looking very uncomfortable on the bike, hardly leaning etc, Lorenzo looks at least comfortable on the thing. I can't wait until January to know what he thinks of it.

ETA: Krop has reported Lorenzo is happy on the bike, it's still early days but that's promising.

https://motomatters.com/analysis/2016/11/15/valencia_motogp_test_initial_trackside.html
Click to expand...

This iteration of the Ducati is a much different bike than the 2010/11/12 versions, still harder to ride than most other GP bikes but at least it's competitive now. The comparison of the two isn't really valid.
 
Daniboy said:
This iteration of the Ducati is a much different bike than the 2010/11/12 versions, still harder to ride than most other GP bikes but at least it's competitive now. The comparison of the two isn't really valid.
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Didn't take long for the predictable Rossi defense to chime in. If you read my post properly, I was not comparing the two. I simply said that Lorenzo at least looks comfortable on the bike, something Rossi most certainly did not when he first rode a Ducati.
 
#22 said:
Didn't take long for the predictable Rossi defense to chime in. If you read my post properly, I was not comparing the two. I simply said that Lorenzo at least looks comfortable on the bike, something Rossi most certainly did not when he first rode a Ducati.
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You directly compared times and no it's not defence of Rossi, rather an explanation of the considerable progress made since that time.
 
Daniboy said:
This iteration of the Ducati is a much different bike than the 2010/11/12 versions, still harder to ride than most other GP bikes but at least it's competitive now. The comparison of the two isn't really valid.
Click to expand...

80-20
 
Daniboy said:
You directly compared times and no it's not defence of Rossi, rather an explanation of the considerable progress made since that time.
Click to expand...

It doesn't have to be all about Rossi or his legacy however much he and his fans might think it is.


There has been considerable speculation, regardless of the characteristics of Ducatis past, that the current iteration would not suit Jorge's riding style and that he would be a non-contender riding for Ducati, and for me as a Jorge fan my heart sank a little when he was off the pace in his first run, admittedly influenced, rationally or not, by what occurred with Melandri and Rossi et al when they first sat on a Ducati which was reflective of subsequent performances.

I was encouraged by Jorge's eventual times, and now have some hope he may be able to contend next season. This is a track historically suited to Jorge's riding style admittedly, but on evidence thus far he seems able to use that riding style on the current Ducati, and Ducati/Audi seem serious about supporting him and it seems likely will be able to develop things further in his direction.
 
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Daniboy said:
You directly compared times and no it's not defence of Rossi, rather an explanation of the considerable progress made since that time.
Click to expand...

Yes I did, to highlight how Lorenzo seems more comfortable with the Ducati then Rossi did. Simply that, stop looking so much into it.
 
michaelm said:
It doesn't have to be all about Rossi or his legacy however much he and his fans might think it is.


There has been considerable speculation, regardless of the characteristics of Ducatis past, that the current iteration would not suit Jorge's riding style and that he would be a non-contender riding for Ducati, and for me as a Jorge fan my heart sank a little when he was off the pace in his first run, admittedly influenced, rationally or not, by what occurred with Melandri and Rossi et al when they first sat on a Ducati which was reflective of subsequent performances.

I was encouraged by Jorge's eventual times, and now have some hope he may be able to contend next season. This is a track historically suited to Jorge's riding style admittedly, but on evidence thus far he seems able to use that riding style on the current Ducati, and Ducati/Audi seem serious about supporting him and it seems likely will be able to develop things further in his direction.
Click to expand...

It would be a loss to moto GP if Jorge wasn't competitive, hopefully him and a few more will be contending for wins all year.
 
#22 said:
Yes I did, to highlight how Lorenzo seems more comfortable with the Ducati then Rossi did. Simply that, stop looking so much into it.
Click to expand...

But the Ducati is wholly different, if Rossi was on todays bike he'd also be doing respectable times.
 
Oh boy, let the fun begin at Yamaha. Jarvis said the dynamic would change between his riders once Vinales started beating Rossi. I'm guessing he thought he had at least a half year of peace before he had to start stroking Rossi's ego. Looks like Vinales will be a contender from the jump.
 
Getting rid of Lorenzo for Vinales really works out great for Yamaha. Vinales will compete on dry & wet tracks.
 
moto vudu said:
Getting rid of Lorenzo for Vinales really works out great for Yamaha. Vinales will compete on dry & wet tracks.
Click to expand...

I would be worrying about what Lorenzo might do in dry races, which tend to be more common, if I had your allegiances. Even with an uncommon number of wet races in the last 2 seasons Jorge has won 1 title and Rossi none, and I would hope Michelin can improve their wet tyres for next season. The Ducatis looked fairly good in the wet in the recent season anyway.
 
michaelm said:
It doesn't have to be all about Rossi or his legacy however much he and his fans might think it is.


There has been considerable speculation, regardless of the characteristics of Ducatis past, that the current iteration would not suit Jorge's riding style and that he would be a non-contender riding for Ducati, and for me as a Jorge fan my heart sank a little when he was off the pace in his first run, admittedly influenced, rationally or not, by what occurred with Melandri and Rossi et al when they first sat on a Ducati which was reflective of subsequent performances.

I was encouraged by Jorge's eventual times, and now have some hope he may be able to contend next season. This is a track historically suited to Jorge's riding style admittedly, but on evidence thus far he seems able to use that riding style on the current Ducati, and Ducati/Audi seem serious about supporting him and it seems likely will be able to develop things further in his direction.
Click to expand...

Generally, testing is very difficult to get any real idea for what pace is possible or not because of the different programs riders may be running....or due to sandbagging. The latter is something I feel is probably going on even in Valencia right now, and may show itself further at Sepang in January. Likewise Vinales topping the sheets means little as this isn't FP sessions when it counts.

After hearing the sound of the V4 powering next year's RC213V, it was ominous in sound to me. I think people focusing on the inter-team battles or what will someone do on such-and-such bike, are not paying attention to the real story of Marc Marquez possibly receiving a worldbeater bike. 2016's engine, I would have rated as 3 out of 10 in Losail. By the time Valencia rolled around, I would have pegged it at 6 or 7 out of 10 with the improvements they made. So MM won a title with an engine that was at it's best only a 6 or 7 out of 10. What happens if he gets an engine that is around 9/10 or 10/10? The advantage for MM would be so great, I could see it effecting an engine formula change within a few years just to stop it.
 
michaelm said:
I would be worrying about what Lorenzo might do in dry races, which tend to be more common, if I had your allegiances. Even with an uncommon number of wet races in the last 2 seasons Jorge has won 1 title and Rossi none, and I would hope Michelin can improve their wet tyres for next season. The Ducatis looked fairly good in the wet in the recent season anyway.
Click to expand...

I had another thought, depending on how the M1 looks in cooler/wet conditions along with the engine being questioned by Rossi, if it is as problematic as it was this season, it might settle the question once and for all about VR's bike development skills.
 
michaelm said:
I would be worrying about what Lorenzo might do in dry races, which tend to be more common, if I had your allegiances. Even with an uncommon number of wet races in the last 2 seasons Jorge has won 1 title and Rossi none, and I would hope Michelin can improve their wet tyres for next season. The Ducatis looked fairly good in the wet in the recent season anyway.
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The Ducs perform just fine in the wet, it's Lorenzo who doesn't. Michelin is obviously one of the best race tire manufacturers on this planet. However, even they cannot make a tire to treat a patient with a psychiatric disorder.


Yamaha will have to gamble with the M1. The M1 is currently great at saving the tires on a hot track surface. Any changes made to increase load on the tires to assist with performance in cool/wet conditions will bite them in the ... if the weather next season is mostly good.
 
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Daniboy said:
But the Ducati is wholly different, if Rossi was on todays bike he'd also be doing respectable times.
Click to expand...


But Rossi wasn't even the fastest Ducati back in 2010. 15th place is not respectable, no but about it.

2010 MotoGP Valencia Day2 Test Results:
1. Casey Stoner (Honda) 1’32.066
2. Jorge Lorenzo (Yamaha) 1’32.179
3. Ben Spies (Yamaha) 1’32.322
4. Marco Simoncelli (Honda) 1’32.450
5. Dani Pedrosa (Honda) 1’32.497
6. Nicky Hayden (Ducati) 1’32.583
7. Alvaro Bautista (Suzuki) 1’32.738
8. Randy de Puniet (Ducati) 1’32.836
9. Andrea Dovizioso (Honda) 1’32.942
10. Hiroshi Aoyama (Honda) 1’33.105
11. Hector Barbera (Ducati) 1’33.168
12. Colin Edwards (Yamaha) 1’33.325
13. Cal Crutchlow (Yamaha) 1’33.483
14. Loris Capirossi (Ducati) 1’33.740
15. Valentino Rossi (Ducati) 1’33.761
16. Karel Abraham (Ducati) 1’33.793
17. Toni Elias (Honda) 1’34.800
 
moto vudu said:
The Ducs perform just fine in the wet, it's Lorenzo who doesn't. Michelin is obviously one of the best race tire manufacturers on this planet. However, even they cannot make a tire to treat a patient with a psychiatric disorder.


Yamaha will have to gamble with the M1. The M1 is currently great at saving the tires on a hot track surface. Any changes made to increase load on the tires to assist with performance in cool/wet conditions will bite them in the ... if the weather next season is mostly good.
Click to expand...

Michelin is also the company who is using mismatched tire profiles on the front and rear. They're good, but not infallible.

Lorenzo has performed just fine in the wet many times. Enough so, that it renders your constant bleating irrelevant.
 
birdman said:
But Rossi wasn't even the fastest Ducati back in 2010. 15th place is not respectable, no but about it.

2010 MotoGP Valencia Day2 Test Results:
1. Casey Stoner (Honda) 1’32.066
2. Jorge Lorenzo (Yamaha) 1’32.179
3. Ben Spies (Yamaha) 1’32.322
4. Marco Simoncelli (Honda) 1’32.450
5. Dani Pedrosa (Honda) 1’32.497
6. Nicky Hayden (Ducati) 1’32.583
7. Alvaro Bautista (Suzuki) 1’32.738
8. Randy de Puniet (Ducati) 1’32.836
9. Andrea Dovizioso (Honda) 1’32.942
10. Hiroshi Aoyama (Honda) 1’33.105
11. Hector Barbera (Ducati) 1’33.168
12. Colin Edwards (Yamaha) 1’33.325
13. Cal Crutchlow (Yamaha) 1’33.483
14. Loris Capirossi (Ducati) 1’33.740
15. Valentino Rossi (Ducati) 1’33.761
16. Karel Abraham (Ducati) 1’33.793
17. Toni Elias (Honda) 1’34.800
Click to expand...

The 80-20 principle clearly in effect.
 

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