Marquez: What has happened?

MotoGP Forum

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Honda Qatar 2015 42.43 2014 42.40
Yam Qatar 2015 42.36 2014 42.41
Yam 5 secs quicker… Honda 3secs slower.

Honda COTA 2015 43.47 2014 43.33
Yam COTA 2015 43.50 2014 43.56
Yam 6 secs quicker… Honda 14 secs slower.

Honda ARG 2015 41.44 2014 41.40
Yam ARG 2015 41.36 2014 41.43
Yam 7 secs quicker… Honda 4 secs slower.

Honda Jerez 2015 45.03 2014 45.24
Yam Jerez 2015 44.57 2014 45.25
Yam 28 secs quicker… Honda 21 secs quicker.

Honda LeMans 2015 44.04 2014 44.04
Yam LeMans 2015 43.44 2014 44.05
Yam 21 secs quicker… Honda no change.

Honda Mugello 2015 41.50 2014 41.38
Yam Mugello 2015 41.40 2014 41.38
Yam 2 secs slower… Honda 12 secs slower.

Honda Catalunya 2015 43.13 2014 42.57
Yam Catalunya 2015 42.53 2014 42.58
Yam 5 secs quicker… Honda 16 secs slower.

In general Yamaha seems to have improved significantly and Honda seems to have fallen off a bit... Yamaha's seamless and Jorge's being on form seem to be Yamaha's major gains... Honda's losses? Dani is hurting.' MM is an ...... And the bike has certainly made no advances...

I think the slower pace this latter half of the season is due to the engineers turning down the wick on the bike. Whether that's due to the ECU settings regarding the aggressiveness of the engine, or the reduction in engines (4) because of the Austin incident, I'm not sure, but that's the conjecture.
 
I think it's as "insightful " as his last article on the subject. He and Marquez apologists just can't wrap their heads around the simple explanation that the problem with the RCV is the rider crashing.

I remember Kropo used to argue against fishing for complex explanations (of course only when it suited him) yet here we have all the pundits engaged in trying to explain away why it MUST be the RCV. They can't fathom that if the knife's edge had fallen naturally 50/50 the last two years Marc would have been in the same predicament as he is today. He was always one crash away from ....... himself up. Just one of those goes the way of natural probability and he wouldn't have walked away. 2013-2014 Jerez (almost murders Pedro, and Lorenzo ), Catalunya (almost murders Pedro), Aragon (almost murders Pedro) Mugello (almost commits suicide), Silverstone (almost murders Cuntslow), Philip Island (almost murders Lorenzo on exit, almost commits suicide ) these just off top of my head, etc. One broken leg or one more torpedo and no special alien powers to speak of, let alone the 2013 title (where clearly Lorenzo was the better rider but lost points to clavicle injury). What about this can't these pundits understand? Even Denis Noyes is fixated on the Kropo bandwagon of explaining away the crashes as decidedly RCV error. Where then are the "insightful " articles on why Alex has crashed on the "pos" Suzuki? How about Dovi crashing, I can't seem to find the pundits fixated on why the Ducati is a "pos". How about Pol Espargaro, surely we can blame the M1 for his crashes.

This .... has got outta control and I'm amazed at all the fools buying into this ......... How on earth the bike is being blamed for RIDER ERROR at Catalunya is quite stunning.
 
Nice to have an expert opinion, though he doesn't say what he thinks it is.

I agree with the things he's identified as not causing the problem.

For ..... sake it's the VSG's. Has everyone forgotten? V for vibrations. If Marcy's machine ain't vibratin' at the right frequency how can the little .... orgasm his way to victory?

Ok on a more serious note, hasn't it always been the case throughout the control tire period the tires will happen to suit one bike more than another. I mean Ducati must be painfully well aware of this having thrown their frameless baby out with the bathwater only after they copied the design onto their roadbike.

This year's control tire works with the Yamaha. Last years heat resistant layer tires favoured Honda. The previous soft squishy tires favoured Yamaha. On and on the cycle goes. Oh except nothing much favoured Ducati. Until they basically made an alloy frame v4 Honda style bike. Honda are not in the amount of trouble Ducati were despite Kropos laughable ratings.

Honda will develop exponentially faster than Ducati. If Marcy boy could just learn some patience, that the rub of the green won't always go his way, that sometimes he might just have to accept second place for a race or two until things turn then obviously he would still be in the hunt.

I don't subscribe to this Honda catastrophic bike theory. What are the Honda bosses thinking? Ah if only we have the best bike every year, then Marcy can win all the races? .... why didn't we think of that. Get nakamoto-san on the phone pronto.
Honda: "Nakamoto-San we are very disappointed"
Nakamoto: "Ah-so?"
Honda: "you must always build the best bike on the grid, so Marc-san can win all the races"
Nakamoto: "Ah-so!"
Honda: "why didn't you think of this nakamotosan?"
Nakamoto: "ohhh please forgive me, but Kroposan say sun shine out of Marc-sans ...-hole, that Marcsan can walk on water, that marcsan can even win on Ducati. So we develop Ducati bike for Marc-San, lots power, no turn"
Honda smacking foreheads
 
Last edited:
I think it's as "insightful " as his last article on the subject. He and Marquez apologists just can't wrap their heads around the simple explanation that the problem with the RCV is the rider crashing.

I remember Kropo used to argue against fishing for complex explanations (of course only when it suited him) yet here we have all the pundits engaged in trying to explain away why it MUST be the RCV. They can't fathom that if the knife's edge had fallen naturally 50/50 the last two years Marc would have been in the same predicament as he is today. He was always one crash away from ....... himself up. Just one of those goes the way of natural probability and he wouldn't have walked away. 2013-2014 Jerez (almost murders Pedro, and Lorenzo ), Catalunya (almost murders Pedro), Aragon (almost murders Pedro) Mugello (almost commits suicide), Silverstone (almost murders Cuntslow), Philip Island (almost murders Lorenzo on exit, almost commits suicide ) these just off top of my head, etc. One broken leg or one more torpedo and no special alien powers to speak of, let alone the 2013 title (where clearly Lorenzo was the better rider but lost points to clavicle injury). What about this can't these pundits understand? Even Denis Noyes is fixated on the Kropo bandwagon of explaining away the crashes as decidedly RCV error. Where then are the "insightful " articles on why Alex has crashed on the "pos" Suzuki? How about Dovi crashing, I can't seem to find the pundits fixated on why the Ducati is a "pos". How about Pol Espargaro, surely we can blame the M1 for his crashes.

This .... has got outta control and I'm amazed at all the fools buying into this ......... How on earth the bike is being blamed for RIDER ERROR at Catalunya is quite stunning.

You make sense here, but you won't like the answer. The reason people are saying the problem is due to the RCV is because a multitude of Honda riders have had the same issues. The multitude being Dani, Crutchlow, and Redding. Not the best sample set to make a convincing argument, but I think that's what we have here.
 
You make sense here, but you won't like the answer. The reason people are saying the problem is due to the RCV is because a multitude of Honda riders have had the same issues. The multitude being Dani, Crutchlow, and Redding. Not the best sample set to make a convincing argument, but I think that's what we have here.
I hear u. I don't think I have to elaborate why Cuntmakazi is a bad example. But Redding, as much as I genuinely like him, also crashed his way out of a Moto2 title (one that was his to lose). Pedrosa has crashed once and it happened early in the race while recovering from surgery. Read his quote after that crash, he said he didn't know why it happen. Pedrosa is actually our best control group to ascertain something, assuming there is something to ascertain, as frankly i feel this push to blame the RCV is a forced arguement by our pundits, now dictating the prevailing narrative. Its like Fox News is being echoed as the accepted talking point because we'll they issued the talking point. Other than Pedrosa's singular crash after surgery, he has NOT been crashing with such regularity as to use him as a sample. Had Pedro, who is on the other worx RCV, had been crashing 3 races in succession where one couldn't reasonably argue RIDER ERROR. In other words some unforced crash. UNLIKE Marquez who: clearly out braked himself at Catalunya (almost torpedoing Lorenzo), forced the issue at Argentina (an actual collision/torpedo with Rossi) AND crashed out while dualing Iannone at Mugello (dive bombing wide a couple of times, allowing Iannone cut back in, or as Kropo would describe, a precision pass). Which of those three incidents leading to crashes were unforced rider error? Please someone answer this question!
 
Last edited:
For ..... sake it's the VSG's. Has everyone forgotten? V for vibrations. If Marcy's machine ain't vibratin' at the right frequency how can the little .... orgasm his way to victory?

Ok on a more serious note, hasn't it always been the case throughout the control tire period the tires will happen to suit one bike more than another. I mean Ducati must be painfully well aware of this having thrown their frameless baby out with the bathwater only after they copied the design onto their roadbike.

This year's control tire works with the Yamaha. Last years heat resistant layer tires favoured Honda. The previous soft squishy tires favoured Yamaha. On and on the cycle goes. Oh except nothing much favoured Ducati. Until they basically made an alloy frame v4 Honda style bike. Honda are not in the amount of trouble Ducati were despite Kropos laughable ratings.

Honda will develop exponentially faster than Ducati. If Marcy boy could just learn some patience, that the rub of the green won't always go his way, that sometimes he might just have to accept second place for a race or two until things turn then obviously he would still be in the hunt.

I don't subscribe to this Honda catastrophic bike theory. What are the Honda bosses thinking? Ah if only we have the best bike every year, then Marcy can win all the races? .... why didn't we think of that. Get nakamoto-san on the phone pronto.
Honda: "Nakamoto-San we are very disappointed"
Nakamoto: "Ah-so?"
Honda: "you must always build the best bike on the grid, so Marc-san can win all the races"
Nakamoto: "Ah-so!"
Honda: "why didn't you think of this nakamotosan?"
Nakamoto: "ohhh please forgive me, but Kroposan say sun shine out of Marc-sans ...-hole, that Marcsan can walk on water, that marcsan can even win on Ducati. So we develop Ducati bike for Marc-San, lots power, no turn"
Honda smacking foreheads

So most people on PS agree it's the tires, which is about as dangerous as everyone elsewhere agreeing that it's the bike.

It would have been nice if Cameron had offered a theory, but he opined that it wasn't the bike.
 
So most people on PS agree it's the tires, which is about as dangerous as everyone elsewhere agreeing that it's the bike.

It would have been nice if Cameron had offered a theory, but he opined that it wasn't the bike.

" most on PS?" How do u define "most"? It seems there is ample passive support that the RCV is the culprit in Marc's woes. (I swear I laugh every time I type this).

No Lex, I blame Marquez, the rider, for his crashes (as i think those few not buying the official narrative proposed by Kropaganda).

Separate issue: race distance tire management. The pace difference and eventual result over a race distance may be corollary to the new tire "choice" which was "perfectly illustrated" by Rossi at Argentina.

Lets call it the "Kropo RCV narative" has now revised what occurred at Argentina, a Rossi tire choice masterstroke (and projected onto Mugello & Catalunya) to a RCV deficiency, specifically engine power delivery.
 
Last edited:
Is the culprit for Marquez' crashes really in question? People seem interested in figuring out why he doesn't have the pace to run at the front.

The troubling aspect of crash-gate is that people are concocting weird theories about HRC malfeasance, like not listening to riders as if we're living in 2003 or HRC have designed a machine that can only be ridden in a simulation program. I think that's what Kevin Cameron was trying to dispel.

The people who think Honda are to blame aren't willing to accept that people fail. Instead, they allege intentional ruination via arrogance and intransigence. It feels like were living in 2007, and HRC have bought a spring-valved pocket bike to a MotoGP contest.
 
It would have been nice if Cameron had offered a theory, but he opined that it wasn't the bike.
Actually I think he did, "This year, Yamaha’s problems with braking stability have abated, and Honda’s changes to their own equipment have torpedoed their top rider’s style." So - yes it is possible to ride the bike; yes it is possible to ride it to podiums (although Dani is a ...... baseline because he and MM are polar opposites style and brain-wise); yes MM has lost the plot AT THE MOMENT and is doing his best DePuniet impression throwing away points and podiums; yes the tyres seem less suited to the RCV this year but teams have worked around that before.... All the numbers seem to prove that Yamaha has brought a better package in 2015 and Honda and its riders cannot compete at the moment - what is there to debate?
 
Last edited:
I hear u. I don't think I have to elaborate why Cuntmakazi is a bad example. But Redding, as much as I genuinely like him, also crashed his way out of a Moto2 title (one that was his to lose). Pedrosa has crashed once and it happened early in the race while recovering from surgery. Read his quote after that crash, he said he didn't know why it happen. Pedrosa is actually our best control group to ascertain something, assuming there is something to ascertain, as frankly i feel this push to blame the RCV is a forced arguement by our pundits, now dictating the prevailing narrative. Its like Fox News is being echoed as the accepted talking point because we'll they issued the talking point. Other than Pedrosa's singular crash after surgery, he has NOT been crashing with such regularity as to use him as a sample. Had Pedro, who is on the other worx RCV, had been crashing 3 races in succession where one couldn't reasonably argue RIDER ERROR. In other words some unforced crash. UNLIKE Marquez who: clearly out braked himself at Catalunya (almost torpedoing Lorenzo), forced the issue at Argentina (an actual collision/torpedo with Rossi) AND crashed out while dualing Iannone at Mugello (dive bombing wide a couple of times, allowing Iannone cut back in, or as Kropo would describe, a precision pass). Which of those three incidents leading to crashes were unforced rider error? Please someone answer this question!

And now Pedrosa is using a different chassis to that of Marquez.

“The thing is that Dani is working a little bit different than me. He is using another chassis, completely different riding style,” Marquez explained. “I cannot say if it is better or worse. But we have two different riding styles and some things that I try he liked, and some things he liked I don't.”

MotoGP News - MotoGP Catalunya: Marquez tempted by 2014 chassis switch
 
So most people on PS agree it's the tires, which is about as dangerous as everyone elsewhere agreeing that it's the bike.

It would have been nice if Cameron had offered a theory, but he opined that it wasn't the bike.
I don't agree. The tire theories are wide ranging. At one extreme we have Talpa claiming BS are making anti-Rossi ,pro Lorenzo tires because DORNA must have Spanish not Italian riders winning races.

Needless to say I don't subscribe to this theory. DORNA would more likely dread the thought of boring Lorenzo runaway victories. My tire theory is far more conservative. Its along the lines of the age old battle between Honda and Yamaha, the fundamentally apposed theory: are we going to take the corner in a V or U.

Yamaha are always going for the sweeping high corner speed U. Honda favour the brake later get on the gas earlier V. I tend to think BS are well aware of this and actually try to run the middle ground, to not favour one too much more than the other. But in reality the tire favours one slightly more than the other. Last years heat resistant tire had less edge grip, meaning the sooner the rider gets off the edge the better. Advantage Honda, or more specifically the moto2 upstart Marquez.

Now looking at the current Honda, perhaps it has been developed to play even more to Marquez's strength's, meaning even more power, even later braking, which is all well and good, but in the meantime BS has moved the goalposts slightly more towards the U, the tire is too soft to "see God, then brake", and wears to fast to get on the gas early.

Honda got caught out, the scribes are writing "how could they be so arrogant, so stupid". Yet development in the control tire era is always going to be a gamble, as Prezi once said, either we will look like genius's or fool's depending how the gamble pays off. At present Honda look the fools.
 
Actually I think he did, "This year, Yamaha’s problems with braking stability have abated, and Honda’s changes to their own equipment have torpedoed their top rider’s style." So - yes it is possible to ride the bike; yes it is possible to ride it to podiums (although Dani is a ...... baseline because he and MM are polar opposites style and brain-wise); yes MM has lost the plot AT THE MOMENT and is doing his best DePuniet impression throwing away points and podiums; yes the tyres seem less suited to the RCV this year but teams have worked around that before.... All the numbers seem to prove that Yamaha has brought a better package in 2015 and Honda and its riders cannot compete at the moment - what is there to debate?

I didn't read closely enough. He does think it's the Honda.
 
Kesh, Mick, let's slow this down and take it by the numbers, make it easy on you guys. Since Marc's recent crash fest has pawned a sudden notion that the RCV is crap, then let's examine the crashes, after all no crashes --no Kropo revisions that you two are all too susceptible to swallow hook line and...let's move on.

1. Crash 1- Argentina: Marquez comfortably leading by a country miles. Except unbeknownst at the beginning of the race Rossi has by luck, gamble, or experience picked the perfect tire for a race distance. It doesn't appear like anything at first, but in the closing stages the tires and Rossi are charging up the field. Clearly Rossi has made the right tire choice, arrives at Marc several tenths faster. At this point the race is decided. Except Marquez isn't about to concede. He shelves the physical FACT that Rossi is clearly faster. Rossi overtakes him as his pace dictates and what does Marquez do? He tries to go beyond the physical limitations he had chosen in the garage an hour earlier. That is, his set up, tire choice, and everything that had learned over the practice weekend, and dumped it to try and stay with Rossi. His error in judgement led him to collide into the rear of Rossi.

Sane people: Rider Error, common hotheaded mistake, typical of Marc's riding history, Rossi got tge tire choice right, move along nothing to see here, RCV was not to blame.

Kropo: Rider is infallible, Marc doesnt make mistakes which lead to rear end toroedoes; therefore the RCV must be deficient which caused the collision.

Kesh, Mick, hey it looks like Kropo has a point.

2. Crash 2 - Mugello: Marquez sits out last minutes of Q2 thinking he has done enough but gets edged out, bone headed mistake but he declares, not worried I know my pace is good for race. He then "threads the needle with precision" on the RCV (weird I know, it's such a dog) and battles for 2nd with an Italian nicknamed The Maniac, at Mugello in Italy. They battle like the old days of Moto2, Marquez dive bombing running wide, Iannone overtakes, and so forth. Spectacular yes, uncommon for these two, no, ill adviced, well only if neither rider is going to concede. 20 points for second, but a cool 16 for third. What to do? The heated battle continues, each trying to out dual out pace the other, then suddenly in the mists of this battle Marquez crashes. In every sane description of what occurred, the conclusion of forced rider error during a battle would top the list. Except of course another more complicated and convoluted explanation emerges.

Sane people: looks like forced rider error, common variety mistake, typical of Marc's riding MO, the RCV is not to blame.

Kropo: Marc is infallible of course, therefore the RCV is to blame.

Kesh, Mick, you know, Kropo kinda makes sense.

3. Crash 3- Catalunya: Marquez gets up to 2nd and really looks good for a win. He is up Lorenzo 's ... who has been on stellar form (so Marquez being in that position is weird, RCV dog and all). So Marquez has had enuf of following Lorenzo around, its time to stamp his authority, clearly Marc is faster, and decides to make his move. Except he comes in too hot, he had every intention of going inside of Lorenzo, and admits as much post race. Forget that he doesn't have enuf space, he's punted riders before (Jerez) or is coming in too hot (insert a fourth the races last two years). Realizing his mistake he narrowly misses the rider in front, we've seen this before, right (though he's hit them on other occasions, repeatedly). Clearly it appears like a rider mistake of the common variety seen hundreds of times throughout the history of the sport. Nick Harris declares (a man who has practically been watching the sport since Jesus) his level headed assessment: 'well we can't blame that on the bike, tires, weather, or anything else but simply "rider error".' (Listen to the GP feed). So a rider overshoots to make a passing sequence, we've seen this hundreds of times, we've all called it for what it is; RIDER ERROR. Except when the pundits review the race another complex and convoluted explanation emerges.

Sane people: common variety Rider Error attempting to overtake, brakes didn't malfunction, nothing to do with the RCV.

Kropo: Marc is infallible, therefore the RCV must be deficient.

Kesh, Mick: you know, Marc has dominated, he has "evolved" from his past knife's edge riding, hey, it looks Kropo is on to something.
 
Last edited:
Kesh, Mick, let's slow this down and take it by the numbers, make it easy on you guys. Since Marc's recent crash fest has pawned a sudden notion that the RCV is crap, then let's examine the crashes, after all no crashes --no Kropo revisions that you two are all too susceptible to swallow hook line and...let's move on.

1. Crash 1- Argentina: Marquez comfortably leading by a country miles. Except unbeknownst at the beginning of the race Rossi has by luck, gamble, or experience picked the perfect tire for a race distance. It doesn't appear like anything at first, but in the closing stages the tires and Rossi are charging up the field. Clearly Rossi has made the right tire choice, arrives at Marc several tenths faster. At this point the race is decided. Except Marquez isn't about to concede. He shelves the physical FACT that Rossi is clearly faster. Rossi overtakes him as his pace dictates and what does Marquez do? He tries to go beyond the physical limitations he had chosen in the garage an hour earlier. That is, his set up, tire choice, and everything that had learned over the practice weekend, and dumped it to try and stay with Rossi. His error in judgement led him to collide into the rear of Rossi.

Sane people: Rider Error, common hotheaded mistake, typical of Marc's riding history, Rossi got tge tire choice right, move along nothing to see here, RCV was not to blame.

Kropo: Rider is infallible, Marc doesnt make mistakes which lead to rear end toroedoes; therefore the RCV must be deficient which caused the collision.

Kesh, Mick, hey it looks like Kropo has a point.

2. Crash 2 - Mugello: Marquez sits out last minutes of Q2 thinking he has done enough but gets edged out, bone headed mistake but he declares, not worried I know my pace is good for race. He then "threads the needle with precision" on the RCV (weird I know, it's such a dog) and battles for 2nd with an Italian nicknamed The Maniac, at Mugello in Italy. They battle like the old days of Moto2, Marquez dive bombing running wide, Iannone overtakes, and so forth. Spectacular yes, uncommon for these two, no, ill adviced, well only if neither rider is going to concede. 20 points for second, but a cool 16 for third. What to do? The heated battle continues, each trying to out dual out pace the other, then suddenly in the mists of this battle Marquez crashes. In every sane description of what occurred, the conclusion of forced rider error during a battle would top the list. Except of course another more complicated and convoluted explanation emerges.

Sane people: looks like forced rider error, common variety mistake, typical of Marc's riding MO, the RCV is not to blame.

Kropo: Marc is infallible of course, therefore the RCV is to blame.

Kesh, Mick, you know, Kropo kinda makes sense.

3. Crash 3- Catalunya: Marquez gets up to 2nd and really looks good for a win. He is up Lorenzo 's ... who has been on stellar form (so Marquez being in that position is weird, RCV dog and all). So Marquez has had enuf of following Lorenzo around, its time to stamp his authority, clearly Marc is faster, and decides to make his move. Except he comes in too hot, he had every intention of going inside of Lorenzo, and admits as much post race. Forget that he doesn't have enuf space, he's punted riders before (Jerez) or is coming in too hot (insert a fourth the races last two years). Realizing his mistake he narrowly misses the rider in front, we've seen this before, right (though he's hit them on other occasions, repeatedly). Clearly it appears like a rider mistake of the common variety seen hundreds of times throughout the history of the sport. Nick Harris declares (a man who has practically been watching the sport since Jesus) his level headed assessment: 'well we can't blame that on the bike, tires, weather, or anything else but simply "rider error".' (Listen to the GP feed). So a rider overshoots to make a passing sequence, we've seen this hundreds of times, we've all called it for what it is; RIDER ERROR. Except when the pundits review the race another complex and convoluted explanation emerges.

Sane people: common variety Rider Error attempting to overtake, brakes didn't malfunction, nothing to do with the RCV.

Kropo: Marc is infallible, therefore the RCV must be deficient.

Kesh, Mick: you know, Marc has dominated, he has "evolved" from his past knife's edge riding, hey, it looks Kropo is on to something.

The only one here who is saying the Honda is crap - is you. Those who've said Honda screwed up by tweaking the power too much - are backed up by Cameron's assertion that Honda has a history of doing exactly that. I'm only saying that it has a powerband that is narrower and much less optimal than last year's engine. That MM is not dealing well with it - is not in dispute. So stop twisting my words to mean something I haven't said. Nobody said he was infallible - except you. Again, stop implying I've said something I haven't. The only thing here that is convoluted is your distorted claims regarding the intent of my very simple statements. You can bombard us all with refutations of things nobody has said ad infinitum - but nobody is taking it anymore seriously than when you have snappy patter back and forth with your avatar selves. In fact since you only argue against things that you have said (as opposed to anyone else) arguing with yourself is pretty much what you're doing.
 
Last edited:
The only one here who is saying the Honda is crap - is you. Those who've said Honda screwed up by tweaking the power too much - are backed up by Cameron's assertion that Honda has a history of doing exactly that. I'm only saying that it has a powerband that is narrower and much less optimal than last year's engine. That MM is not dealing well with it - is not in dispute. So stop twisting my words to mean something I haven't said. Nobody said he was infallible - except you. Again, stop implying I've said something I haven't. The only thing here that is convoluted is your distorted claims regarding the intent of my very simple statements. You can bombard us all with refutations of things nobody has said ad infinitum - but nobody is taking it anymore seriously than when you have snappy patter back and forth with your avatar selves. In fact since you only argue against things that you have said (as opposed to anyone else) arguing with yourself is pretty much what you're doing.

Uhhh....he has been consistent in saying the Honda is not crap.

This has been the entire point.

Krops and the other journos keep swearing the RCV is garbage and everything else.

Yet to anyone who trusts what they see, there is nothing wrong with the RCV other than being down on the Yamaha, but ahead of the rest of the grid. The problem resides with the one guy riding the Honda; MM.
 
Uhhh....he has been consistent in saying the Honda is not crap.

This has been the entire point.

Krops and the other journos keep swearing the RCV is garbage and everything else.

Yet to anyone who trusts what they see, there is nothing wrong with the RCV other than being down on the Yamaha, but ahead of the rest of the grid. The problem resides with the one guy riding the Honda; MM.

The dialog has not been between myself and the journos. It's been essentially between me and Jum and by association, yourself. I don't care what the journos say. I've read what they say and nobody has said it's a hopeless piece of crap, only that it has issues that are detrimental to it's handling. It only became crap as a result of the emotion-based hyperbole being promoted here in this forum.
 
Uhhh....he has been consistent in saying the Honda is not crap.

This has been the entire point.

Krops and the other journos keep swearing the RCV is garbage and everything else.

Yet to anyone who trusts what they see, there is nothing wrong with the RCV other than being down on the Yamaha, but ahead of the rest of the grid. The problem resides with the one guy riding the Honda; MM.

Pedantic much? Jum is asserting that the Journos are promoting the idea that the Honda is "crap" when in fact all they're reporting is that multiple riders have expressed concerns that this year's iteration has problematic "improvements" that are hindering the bike's handling. Hence Pedrosa reverting to last year's frame.
 
PedanticK, Ha! Thats exactly what you're doing. Kesh, C'mon dude, you know what's meant, stop trying to split nat pubic hairs while in fact being pedantic here. In fact we you and i have both agreed over the years the Ducati was crap, did u ever read a jouno call it that?The journos are making excuses blaming the bike, basically calling it crap. They don't need to use the word to get their point across.

Ok let's break this down, which of the 3 crashes in your estimation "perfectly illustrates " the "problems" with the RCV? 1. Argentina, 2, Mugello, 3. Catalunya.? Or all 3? Don't be lazy, let's here your explanation.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top