Marquez: What has happened?

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It amazes me how incredibly quickly peoples opinions change over 3 races.

Yes, all Marquez has done this year is .... up besides in America. Clearly he is trying way too hard to try and always in and therefore is potentially throwing away the championship...

however

the number of people here who are currently jerking off Lorenzo for being unstoppable since he has now won 3 ....... races in a row seem to be implying he is now the favorite for the title. Do we not remember the first three races where in qatar he had a stupid helmet excuse and the other 2 races he was just plainly off the pace? Everyone said clearly he is no longer up to the challenge and his career is basically over and Marquez mindfucked him. Mind you, this is before the 3 races where Marquez has really started to .... up for the first time in his MotoGp career. Now, suddenly Lorenzo is unstoppable and Marquez is overrated, brought up too quickly garbage? way too quick a conclusion.

Marquez is what, less than 60 points behind Rossi? really is not a lot whatsoever considering how many points are left up for grabs and Marquez could surely come back and dominate the rest of the year if he gets it back together again... I am really just trying to keep people from coming to such a ridiculous, rushed opinion that Marquez is done and Lorenzo is unstoppable... considering three races ago literally no one had the opinion? Marquez was almost leading from 13th in three laps in Italy. Clearly, his fight for the championship is nowhere near close to over.

Also, there was talk earlier about my favorite rider, Pedrosa... Pedrosa will never be a world champion because he does not have what it takes to win enough in a season because he is infamous for bitching out and settling for second place. The last time I checked, I think the most races Pedrosa has ever won in a single season in Motogp is 2 ....... wins. Which is kinda pathetic. however, his number of podiums is honestly incredible and one of the best in history, but because he is not like marquez/rossi/lorenzo, who have the desire to always try and win no matter what, those podiums will never get him a championship, unless he does a nicky hayden 2006 where he wins one race, kinda does so so in every other race and because of everyone elses misfortune manages to win the title basically out of sheer luck. I wish he did lose just so pedrosa could say he has at least accomplished something in his motogp career.

Basically, podiums will almost never get you a championship. Wins do. Therefore, I support Marquez in his never ending desire to try and win no matter the cost. Podiums can get you a decent spot in the championship, like Pedrosa does, but it will never give you the win.

Also, the only people in the world right now who are faster than Pedrosa is Rossi, Lorenzo, Stoner, and Marquez. So his seat really isnt in any danger unless someone from a lower class comes up and takes his spot or Stoner comes out of retirement, as no one else can do a better job than him - i refuse to believe it. Dont say Dovi, who only had 15 podiums in his three ....... years with honda compared to pedrosas 29, a racing record Pedrosa can even say his pretty ....... pathetic considering dovi never missed a single race and pedrosa missed 7.
 
OneDavid said:
It amazes me how incredibly quickly peoples opinions change over 3 races.

Yes, all Marquez has done this year is .... up besides in America. Clearly he is trying way too hard to try and always in and therefore is potentially throwing away the championship...

however

the number of people here who are currently jerking off Lorenzo for being unstoppable since he has now won 3 ....... races in a row seem to be implying he is now the favorite for the title. Do we not remember the first three races where in qatar he had a stupid helmet excuse and the other 2 races he was just plainly off the pace? Everyone said clearly he is no longer up to the challenge and his career is basically over and Marquez mindfucked him. Mind you, this is before the 3 races where Marquez has really started to .... up for the first time in his MotoGp career. Now, suddenly Lorenzo is unstoppable and Marquez is overrated, brought up too quickly garbage? way too quick a conclusion.

Marquez is what, less than 60 points behind Rossi? really is not a lot whatsoever considering how many points are left up for grabs and Marquez could surely come back and dominate the rest of the year if he gets it back together again... I am really just trying to keep people from coming to such a ridiculous, rushed opinion that Marquez is done and Lorenzo is unstoppable... considering three races ago literally no one had the opinion? Marquez was almost leading from 13th in three laps in Italy. Clearly, his fight for the championship is nowhere near close to over.

Also, there was talk earlier about my favorite rider, Pedrosa... Pedrosa will never be a world champion because he does not have what it takes to win enough in a season because he is infamous for bitching out and settling for second place. The last time I checked, I think the most races Pedrosa has ever won in a single season in Motogp is 2 ....... wins. Which is kinda pathetic. however, his number of podiums is honestly incredible and one of the best in history, but because he is not like marquez/rossi/lorenzo, who have the desire to always try and win no matter what, those podiums will never get him a championship, unless he does a nicky hayden 2006 where he wins one race, kinda does so so in every other race and because of everyone elses misfortune manages to win the title basically out of sheer luck. I wish he did lose just so pedrosa could say he has at least accomplished something in his motogp career.

Basically, podiums will almost never get you a championship. Wins do. Therefore, I support Marquez in his never ending desire to try and win no matter the cost. Podiums can get you a decent spot in the championship, like Pedrosa does, but it will never give you the win.

Also, the only people in the world right now who are faster than Pedrosa is Rossi, Lorenzo, Stoner, and Marquez. So his seat really isnt in any danger unless someone from a lower class comes up and takes his spot or Stoner comes out of retirement, as no one else can do a better job than him - i refuse to believe it. Dont say Dovi, who only had 15 podiums in his three ....... years with honda compared to pedrosas 29, a racing record Pedrosa can even say his pretty ....... pathetic considering dovi never missed a single race and pedrosa missed 7.
Click to expand...


Hi Thing 1
#YouMadBro?
Nicky had two wins that year
Does it seem odd to you that the only people faster then Pedrosa are on factory bikes and only factory bikes have won since 2006.
Its funny how that alien Rossi suddenly wasnt faster then Pedrosa ( and his own teammate) when he was on a ducati.
 
SuperManatee said:
Hi Thing 1
#YouMadBro?
Nicky had two wins that year
Does it seem odd to you that the only people faster then Pedrosa are on factory bikes and only factory bikes have won since 2006.
Its funny how that alien Rossi suddenly wasnt faster then Pedrosa ( and his own teammate) when he was on a ducati.
Click to expand...

Two wins is still pretty pathetic for winning the championship that year.
The only people faster than pedrosa are on factory bikes because they're the only ones faster than pedrosa. If there was someone else faster than pedrosa they'd have his seat.
Rossi was faster than Hayden idk wtf you're on about.
Of course Rossi wasn't faster than pedrosa on the ducati. It was awful and his ducamaha was a complete failure .
 
OneDavid said:
Also, the only people in the world right now who are faster than Pedrosa is Rossi, Lorenzo, Stoner, and Marquez. So his seat really isnt in any danger unless someone from a lower class comes up and takes his spot or Stoner comes out of retirement, as no one else can do a better job than him - i refuse to believe it. Dont say Dovi, who only had 15 podiums in his three ....... years with honda compared to pedrosas 29, a racing record Pedrosa can even say his pretty ....... pathetic considering dovi never missed a single race and pedrosa missed 7.
Click to expand...
I WILL say Dovi and have ever since Honda picked the Puig empire (since dismantled) over Dovi when Dovi's arc was clearly rising (and has continued) and Dani's had just as clearly plateaued in 2011 (and to this day remains at that plateau).

Dani has been coddled by HRC to the point of having the 800 built and developed specifically for HIM for SIX YEARS and he FAILED!

Hmmmm.... which other, current riders, besides Dovi, do I think could be faster than Dani given all his privilege?

Iannone; A. Espargaro; Hayden; Smith; AND Johnny Rea!!
 
Lol you have to be joking. Johnny Rea is definitley a possibility. However I said that only people who are coming up the ranks have a possibility so you're basically agreeing with me there. And all the rest you named, no. Smith and espargaro? Seriously? Are you ....... serious?

Pedrosa won races in 2007 and 2008. Hayden did not and having the bike "built for you" will not give you much if any of an advantage as every bike is under the same formula.

Also pedrosa has plateaued at a higher level than dovi ever has been or has ever even come close to.
 
OneDavid said:
Marquez is what, less than 60 points behind Rossi? really is not a lot whatsoever considering how many points are left up for grabs and Marquez could surely come back and dominate the rest of the year if he gets it back together again... I am really just trying to keep people from coming to such a ridiculous, rushed opinion that Marquez is done and Lorenzo is unstoppable... considering three races ago literally no one had the opinion? Marquez was almost leading from 13th in three laps in Italy. Clearly, his fight for the championship is nowhere near close to over.
Click to expand...
There is no doubt that MM is still, and will always be, blindingly fast. The problem, since Qatar (COTA aside), has been that he and his RCV are unable to maintain pace for race distance and he has ended up either way behind or crashing trying to keep up. The two obvious culprits are the character of the RCV engine and tyre options. Unfortunately neither of these are going to be fixed immediately, so it makes it difficult for most observers to believe he will be able to fight for the title this year. But who knows? That's why they go out on Sundays!!
 
OneDavid said:
Lol you have to be joking. Johnny Rea is definitley a possibility. However I said that only people who are coming up the ranks have a possibility so you're basically agreeing with me there. I stuck with current riders but I have no problem expanding the list to all riders since 2006 when Dani entered. Remember we are talking about having ALL the advantages Dani had since entering the HRC fold in Spain as a child - he was the golden boy, youth and man that HRC threw its entire corporate weight behind. Given those advantages I would also include: Edwards; Elias; Hopkins; Spies; Simoncelli; and Bautista as having the potential to have been faster. And all the rest you named, no. Smith and espargaro? Seriously? Are you ....... serious?

Pedrosa won races in 2007 and 2008. Hayden did not and having the bike "built for you" will not give you much if any of an advantage as every bike is under the same formula. Dude, seriously? The ....... 800cc format was the Dani Pedrosa Format ushered in by HRC. If you seriously believe the MGP universe wouldn't be an entirely different place if, in 2007, they stayed on 990s and HRC developed the 990 for Hayden exclusively, you are beyond help.

Also pedrosa has plateaued at a higher level than dovi ever has been or has ever even come close to. I don't think so. To me all he has proven is he can amass a whack of podiums on the one bike on the grid which virtually guarantees podiums - ya-.......-hoo... how high is that plateau? Dovi's star is still rising IMHO.
Click to expand...
How's That?
 
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OneDavid said:
the number of people here who are currently jerking off Lorenzo for being unstoppable since he has now won 3 ....... races in a row seem to be implying he is now the favorite for the title. Well, at the moment, he IS!! Do we not remember the first three races where in qatar he had a stupid helmet excuse and the other 2 races he was just plainly off the pace? Yes. Everyone a few idiots said clearly he is no longer up to the challenge and his career is basically over and Marquez mindfucked him.
Click to expand...
hahahaha
 
Obviously the bike didn't guarantee podiums as dovi could barely do it. And right now Marquez is making it look like it can't, too. Of course I don't think they built the bike towards Hayden and you know that I came no where near close to saying that, I said even though the bike may be built towards your strengths, that won't make that bike and rider combination necessarily any better as the bikes are all under the same formula. Honestly, during that time was when Hondas rcv was probably at its worst so far during pedrosas career as I honestly think building a machine towards somebody's strengths doesn't really ever work out.

Just look at rossis Yamaha in 2008 until 2011. Was meant for Rossi's "style" and Lorenzo came and made it work for him better than it did for Rossi on countless race weekends, even if Rossi managed to come out on top at the end. And if I remember correctly spies had quite an agressive style yet he made the yamaha work for him for the first two years of his career, almost winning three races (breakdown in Indy and stupid loss to stoner in Valencia) along with multiple podiums even though its for a supposedly smooth riding style. And Casey stoner had a sliding style, yet made the Honda work for him and pedrosa does not slide much at all.

Dovis star is not rising. It just makes him look suddenly really good because hes doing well on a bike that previously looked awful the year before. He's yet to really even seriously challenge for a victory this year.
 
OneDavid said:
Two wins is still pretty pathetic for winning the championship that year.
The only people faster than pedrosa are on factory bikes because they're the only ones faster than pedrosa. If there was someone else faster than pedrosa they'd have his seat.
Rossi was faster than Hayden idk wtf you're on about.
Of course Rossi wasn't faster than pedrosa on the ducati. It was awful and his ducamaha was a complete failure .
Click to expand...

I'm sure Hayden will look at his trophy in years to come and think "Yeah that's pathetic, I only won 2 races that year so don't deserve the championship". ......... More important than winning races is CONSISTENCY. Hayden won 2 races, Rossi won 5. But while Rossi was sucking .... wih Uccio, testing Ferrari F1 cars and the like, outside those 5 wins he had retirements and 8th/14th place finishes some of which were his own making because he was dicking around Saturday and qualifying mid grid. Look at Haydens results, he finished in the top 5 for EVERY RACE bar Brno where he ...... his clutch and Estoril where Pedders torpedoed him. In F1, Keke Rosberg won the 1982 Chmpionship winning just one race, but he podiumed in most of the others.

Mick D said:
Hmmmm.... which other, current riders, besides Dovi, do I think could be faster than Dani given all his privilege?

Iannone; A. Espargaro; Hayden; Smith; AND Johnny Rea!!
Click to expand...

I'd add Vinales and Petrucci to that list too.

OneDavid said:
Pedrosa won races in 2007 and 2008. Hayden did not and having the bike "built for you" will not give you much if any of an advantage as every bike is under the same formula.
Click to expand...

Define 'same'. Those are pretty loose interpretations. By that argument you could say all the pre-Dallignia Ducati's were the same as the Honda and the Yam, but we know Rossi and many others couldn't ride those Ducati's for ..... By your argument are you saying Rossi wouldn't have done any better on the GP15? Every rider has preferences which is why you see struggles between team mates. Luckily for Yam I think Rossi and JLo are fairly similar in their styles but the Honda is suited to more aggressive 'point and shoot' style of riding (I ginuinely think that a Yamaha would suit Pedrosa better for example) but look at Aprilia, Bautista is doing ok but Melandri is nowhere. This, an ex GP winner and runner up. Now, if Melandri had the bike to his liking and a bespoke tyre, do you really think he'd be running around behind the Ioda?
 
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Keke only won that '82 championship because one of the Ferrari drivers got killed and the other suffered a career ending injury when leading with a comfortable margin in the points. Took Keke right to the wire to win that title.
 
2015 2014

Qatar
1st Honda 7sec back 1st Yam .3sec back -7.3 Honda

COTA
Honda wins by 2.35secs 1st Yam 23secs back -20.65 Honda

Argentina
1st Honda 8.3secs back 1st Yam 3.2secs back -11.5 Honda

Jerez
1st Honda 5.6secs back 1st Yam 1.4secs back -7 Honda

LeMans
1st Honda 20ses back 1st Yam 1.5 secs back -21.5 Honda

Mugello
1st Honda 10secs back 1st Yam .2sec back -10.2 Honda

Catalunya
1st Honda 19.5secs back 1st Yam .5sec back -20secs Honda


Obviously something has changed since last year...
Question: Have the Yams gotten that much better? Have the Hondas gotten that much worse? Have the Honda riders forgotten how to ride? Have the Yam riders really picked up their game? Or some combination of all of the above?
 
Hmmmm.... that post WAS a lot easier to follow before I posted it... It was all tabbed out.... Basically the first number is 2015 and the second is 2014 and the third is the difference.
 
Marc Marquez

Qatar 2014 Qualifying Time: 1:54.507 (Pole)
Qatar 2015 Qualifying Time: 1'54.437 (P3)

COTA 2014: 2:02.773 (Pole)
COTA 2015: 2:02.135 (Pole)

Argentina 2014: 1:37.683 (Pole)
Argentina 2015: 1:37.802 (Pole)

Jerez 2014: 1:38.120 (Pole)
Jerez 2015: 1:38.300 (P2)

Le Mans 2014: 1:32.042 (Pole)
Le Mans 2015: 1:32.246 (Pole)

Mugello 2014: 1:47.270 (Pole)
Mugello 2015: 1:47.240 (P13)

Catalunya 2014: 1:41.135 (P3)
Catalunya 2015: 1:40.754 (P4)

In some instances he went faster than he did last season, and others there were only marginal improvements to be had. 3 hundreths of a second a Mugello in 1 year was enough to knock him from P1 to P13.
 
I think qualifying is a bit of an anomaly because you are basically riding against yourself and do not have to deal with pesky things like other riders actions!! I wonder what the difference was between MM 2013-2014 quail times - i.e. did he improve over that year or was it stagnant as well?
 
Honda Qatar 2015 42.43 2014 42.40
Yam Qatar 2015 42.36 2014 42.41
Yam 5 secs quicker… Honda 3secs slower.

Honda COTA 2015 43.47 2014 43.33
Yam COTA 2015 43.50 2014 43.56
Yam 6 secs quicker… Honda 14 secs slower.

Honda ARG 2015 41.44 2014 41.40
Yam ARG 2015 41.36 2014 41.43
Yam 7 secs quicker… Honda 4 secs slower.

Honda Jerez 2015 45.03 2014 45.24
Yam Jerez 2015 44.57 2014 45.25
Yam 28 secs quicker… Honda 21 secs quicker.

Honda LeMans 2015 44.04 2014 44.04
Yam LeMans 2015 43.44 2014 44.05
Yam 21 secs quicker… Honda no change.

Honda Mugello 2015 41.50 2014 41.38
Yam Mugello 2015 41.40 2014 41.38
Yam 2 secs slower… Honda 12 secs slower.

Honda Catalunya 2015 43.13 2014 42.57
Yam Catalunya 2015 42.53 2014 42.58
Yam 5 secs quicker… Honda 16 secs slower.

In general Yamaha seems to have improved significantly and Honda seems to have fallen off a bit... Yamaha's seamless and Jorge's being on form seem to be Yamaha's major gains... Honda's losses? Dani is hurting.' MM is an ...... And the bike has certainly made no advances...
 
Mick D said:
I think qualifying is a bit of an anomaly because you are basically riding against yourself and do not have to deal with pesky things like other riders actions!! I wonder what the difference was between MM 2013-2014 quail times - i.e. did he improve over that year or was it stagnant as well?
Click to expand...

2013:

Qatar 1:55.645 (P6)
COTA: 2:03.021 (Pole)
Jerez: 1:38.971 (P3)
Le Mans: 1:33.187 (Pole)
Mugello: 1:47.763 (P6)
Catalunya: 1'41.842 (P6)

He improved on every time for 2014 in comparison to 2013.

I do like qualifying because it gives you an idea of pure speed. Granted it's not sustainable over race distance for obvious reasons, but it tells how quick the bike potentially is.
 
JPSLotus said:
Marc Marquez

Qatar 2013 Qualifying Time: 1:55.645
Qatar 2014 Qualifying Time: 1:54.507 (Pole) -1.14sec
Qatar 2015 Qualifying Time: 1'54.437 (P3) -0.07sec

COTA 2013: 2:03.021
COTA 2014: 2:02.773 (Pole) -0.25
COTA 2015: 2:02.135 (Pole) -0.64

Argentina 2014: 1:37.683 (Pole)
Argentina 2015: 1:37.802 (Pole)

Jerez 2013: 1:38.971
Jerez 2014: 1:38.120 (Pole) -0.85
Jerez 2015: 1:38.300 (P2) +0.18

Le Mans 2013: 1:33.187
Le Mans 2014: 1:32.042 (Pole) -1.15
Le Mans 2015: 1:32.246 (Pole) +0.20

Mugello 2013: 1:47.763
Mugello 2014: 1:47.270 (Pole) -0.50
Mugello 2015: 1:47.240 (P13) -0.03

Catalunya 2013: 1:41.842
Catalunya 2014: 1:41.135 (P3) -0.71
Catalunya 2015: 1:40.754 (P4) -0.38

In some instances he went faster than he did last season, and others there were only marginal improvements to be had. 3 hundreths of a second a Mugello in 1 year was enough to knock him from P1 to P13.
Click to expand...
Certainly the improvements from 2013 to 2014 are remarkably better than 2014 to 2015... The increases (other than COTA) and very slim and at Jerez and LeMans there were losses...
 

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