Marquez: What has happened?

ReddiWhip · May 31, 2015

The Marquez Debate

All I can remember from last season was the discussion surrounding Motogp fell into two camps. Folks on one side said that rules changes, coupled with Honda's development budget had given Honda and Marquez an advantage that made him the obvious favorite. Folks on the other side said Marquez was so much more talented than every other rider in the series, that it didn't matter which bike he was on, the results would've been exactly the same.

When 2014 and '15 are juxtaposed, is the answer to this debate more clear at this point? Is it all about the package (chassis/engine/trans+setup+tires+rider) or is it just a matter of pilot skill and technique? Last season the discussion was as clear as mud.

P.S. Yes, this could be considered Flame Bait. Live a little!

#22 · Jun 1, 2015

Marquex is talented, nobody can doubt that. However sooner or later he was going to have a bad season.

Personally, I think this is an issue when riders (or drivers) come up through the ranks getting the best of everything and being hailed as the next multiple WC and as Jumkie said, having adults blowing smoke up his ... and after last season he probably began to believe he was indestructable. Equipmentwise, he's always had the best so never had to struggle and work with top riders against inferior machinery. IMO Asparagus, Redding etc, all his rivals in Moto2, never pushed him as hard as Jlo & VR do.

I think it's a combination. The 2015 Honda seems to be having issues the 2014 bike didn't, but then the improvement of Yamaha might make it look worse than it is, not forgetting now with the GP15 working, MM has to fight 5 bikes instead of 3.

littlesparrows · Jun 1, 2015

#22 said:
I think it's a combination. The 2015 Honda seems to be having issues the 2014 bike didn't, but then the improvement of Yamaha might make it look worse than it is, not forgetting now with the GP15 working, MM has to fight 5 bikes instead of 3.

IMO this is a huge factor. you went from having one of the top bikes to now...all the other top riders having competitive bikes. ideally, i'd love to see a race where all the top 10 riders have all the same bikes and see who ....... wins.

plus, it's cool that MM is all or nothing...but at the same time, he has to learn to use caution. MM is still super young, so i think he'll learn from this.

also, i would prefer that he gets rid of his cocky attitude once in a while...it blemishes his adorable looks.

#22 · Jun 1, 2015

Littlesparrows and MM sitting in a tree.....

Everyone would love to see an end of year race with riders on the same bike. But what you'd probably see is depended on what bike they used. If the race used a field of 10 Hondas then more aggressive riders would be up there. If you used 10 Yams then JLo, Rossi, Dovi etc would be the ones nearer the front.

Alas, it'll never happen.

ReddiWhip · Jun 1, 2015

2014 was a double or triple whammy as far as i could tell. There was the fuel and engine allotment change, coupled with the cutting edge Honda Trans, together with a confident Marquez. That and the Honda package just seemed to work the best with the 2014 tires.

The biggest factors are possibly two of the top 5 biggest changes to Motogp ever. Reducing the fuel load so severely is cruel and unusual punishment. The Honda Transmission being able to shift up and down through the gears without the use of the clutch was and is a pretty big deal. The rest of the field has or is playing catchup still. They estimate it's good for only one or two tenths a lap, but i think it's worth more when you take rider fatigue and mental strain into account over race distance.

All these factors seemed to combine to take the Championship from a 4 point MM win over JL in 2013, to a 70 point blowout win over VR in 2014 (100 points over JL). The whole time I thought it was clear why, others did too (Jum included

). But there were folks making the case that Marquez could've ridden a unicycle last year and beaten Rossi.

Hollywood · Jun 1, 2015

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that MM is really having to work the bike harder then he did last year, which causes more rapid tire degradation. of course the other bikes (yamaha and ducati) are much better this year..

Artur · Jun 1, 2015

I think that he starts the season little concentrated.. he is not fit.
I seem to see Lorenzo last year

JPSLotus · Jun 1, 2015

The only thing that has happened really is the M1 and Desmo caught up to the Honda, and Honda in turn didn't actually seem to make any new and notable strides with the RC that would have kept the gap in place.

But what's making this a bigger issue is that MM hasn't learned the golden rule of if your bike is not capable of winning races, figure out where it really slots in, and just ride to that position or positions.

Instead he keeps going out there every grand prix going gangbusters on everyone trying to ride a bike at 10/10ths that doesn't appear to be cut out for it. His intelligence hasn't actually caught up to his talent level yet...until it does, he's going to find himself with a bunch of DNF's. Some points are better than none.

Jumkie · Jun 1, 2015

ReddiWhip said:
The biggest factors are possibly two of the top 5 biggest changes to Motogp ever. Reducing the fuel load so severely is cruel and unusual punishment.

Hahahaha. Love it. This had me rolling.

ReddiWhip said:
That and the Honda package just seemed to work the best with the 2014 tires.

The biggest factors are possibly two of the top 5 biggest changes to Motogp ever. Reducing the fuel load so severely is cruel and unusual punishment. The Honda Transmission being able to shift up and down through the gears without the use of the clutch was and is a pretty big deal.

ADD another big change with the pile of .... that are Michellins (at the moment). Btw, the "rider(s)" are picking the tires. My guess is ONE rider gets a bit more say than the others.

Good takes here gentz. Agree with many sentiments expressed. But i think the Honda is still the best bike, i think the tire "choice" has presented a problem for MurderMac. Its been a boom for VR. Les we forget, tires have dictated more than anything else race results over the years. No reason why not go back to a time tested tradition.

Reminds me of the infamous exclamation: "Its the oil stupid." Well...'its the tires stupid.'

Btw, I'd love to hear Kropos chime in. Afterall, he described MurderMac's start yesterday as: "Marc Márquez threaded the needle from thirteenth on the grid to make up seven places before the exit of the first corner. And did so surgically and cleanly." Ah yes, all the finesse of a wrecking ball which by mere luck narrowly missed demolishing riders, I suppose as surgical as the Le Mans start as well. That is, if you fire your missile at the crowd and manage to miss, you have done a fine job. Unique perspective I suppose. Love, Jum.

levigarrett · Jun 1, 2015

Jumkie said:
Hahahaha. Love it. This had me rolling.

ADD another big change with the pile of .... that are Michellins (at the moment). Btw, the "rider(s)" are picking the tires. My guess is ONE rider gets a bit more say than the others.

Good takes here gentz. Agree with many sentiments expressed. But i think the Honda is still the best bike, i think the tire "choice" has presented a problem for MurderMac. Its been a boom for VR. Les we forget, tires have dictated more than anything else race results over the years. No reason why not go back to a time tested tradition.

Reminds me of the infamous exclamation: "Its the oil stupid." Well...'its the tires stupid.'

Btw, I'd love to hear Kropos chime in. Afterall, he described MurderMac's start yesterday as: "Marc Márquez threaded the needle from thirteenth on the grid to make up seven places before the exit of the first corner. And did so surgically and cleanly." Ah yes, all the finesse of a wrecking ball which by mere luck narrowly missed demolishing riders, I suppose as surgical as the Le Mans start as well. That is, if you fire your missile at the crowd and manage to miss, you have done a fine job. Unique perspective I suppose. Love, Jum.

You make me laugh man.

Lotus has this right. MM keeps trying to put a 2nd or 3rd place bike 10 seconds in front, and that won't work. After all, he's not Casey Fukin Stoner! There will be days when MM has the best bike properly set up. When that happens, he's largely unstoppable. That being said, we've seen this show from Lorenzo before. If he gets a few more wins, I think he's going to change the calculation for several of the others. This is in my estimation, the best looking GP season in some time. Multiple contenting machines and several riders who are no longer in awe of either Rossi or MM. These guys all look hungry. A healthy Dani can also take wins.

I dig it. BTW Jums, I don't think there's enough air in the room for you and Krop. Unfortunately, I doubt we'll see much of him now that you've returned. That's unfortunate.

Jumkie · Jun 1, 2015

levigarrett said:
[/B]

You make me laugh man.

I dig it. BTW Jums, I don't think there's enough air in the room for you and Krop. Unfortunately, I doubt we'll see much of him now that you've returned. That's unfortunate.

God I hope not, surely Krapo has thicker skin then Cal Cuntmakazi.

Nah, Kraptalking is just busy right now weeding out the comments sections for any divergent opinions, not to mention the Mishitlins disaster test at Mugello, or as he might put it, a superior French tire with exceptional "precision".

(Precision to eject riders that is.)

I fully expect Krapo to stay on board. First of all, Powerslide should not be punished for one maniac member with a propensity to talk ..... (I'm talking about myself by the way). Second, MurderMac will need lots of Kropanganda support based his form lately. I'm sure there is a spin to his crashing fest. Perhaps an 'elbowdown'....#waydown, hashtag is in order. Marc already is the recipient of the "fastest crash in the universe" award, maybe the most 'elbow down ever' accolade to make the almost save appear like a human interest success story?

Of course there is alway the Chickenshit2.0 option. Submit a grievance with Duc to throttle the account, this way they can hide a soft ban where nobody is the wiser.

littlesparrows · Jun 1, 2015

Nakamoto: "Marc’s complaint is that there is too much power" - LOL.

Theo · Jun 1, 2015

littlesparrows said:
Nakamoto: "Marc’s complaint is that there is too much power" - LOL.

Maybe he should open that big gob of his as a wind brake

JPSLotus · Jun 1, 2015

Jumkie said:
Hahahaha. Love it. This had me rolling.

ADD another big change with the pile of .... that are Michellins (at the moment). Btw, the "rider(s)" are picking the tires. My guess is ONE rider gets a bit more say than the others.

Good takes here gentz. Agree with many sentiments expressed. But i think the Honda is still the best bike, i think the tire "choice" has presented a problem for MurderMac. Its been a boom for VR. Les we forget, tires have dictated more than anything else race results over the years. No reason why not go back to a time tested tradition.

Reminds me of the infamous exclamation: "Its the oil stupid." Well...'its the tires stupid.'

Btw, I'd love to hear Kropos chime in. Afterall, he described MurderMac's start yesterday as: "Marc Márquez threaded the needle from thirteenth on the grid to make up seven places before the exit of the first corner. And did so surgically and cleanly." Ah yes, all the finesse of a wrecking ball which by mere luck narrowly missed demolishing riders, I suppose as surgical as the Le Mans start as well. That is, if you fire your missile at the crowd and manage to miss, you have done a fine job. Unique perspective I suppose. Love, Jum.

I'm sure if he does another wrecking ball start and actually takes out 4-5 guys out before turn 1, it will be written that those riders tried to commit suicide by throwing themselves under the wheels of the valiant, and courageous MM's Honda to prevent him from taking the title that is rightly his.

JPSLotus · Jun 1, 2015

I also expect those Michelin tire specs to have been mandated by Dorna to be tailor made for VR so as to deliver him a title at the ripe old age of 37 or 38 years old.

littlesparrows · Jun 1, 2015

JPSLotus said:
I also expect those Michelin tire specs to have been mandated by Dorna to be tailor made for VR so as to deliver him a title at the ripe old age of 37 or 38 years old.

i bet at 37, VR will still be a total babe.

soooooooooo - holla.

Jumkie · Jun 1, 2015

Theo said:
Maybe he should open that big gob of his as a wind brake

JPSLotus said:
I'm sure if he does another wrecking ball start and actually takes out 4-5 guys out before turn 1, it will be written that those riders tried to commit suicide by throwing themselves under the wheels of the valiant, and courageous MM's Honda to prevent him from taking the title that is rightly his.

HAHAHAHAHA, this is what I miss about Powislide. Good .... gentz. Hilarious.

Someone above said that the prevailing opinion was that Marc was an alien's alien, where he could ride a scooter to the title. Looks like the superior RCV with an army of enginequeers and an everest of resources isn't enough as he is also complaining about: _________(insert any part of the bike here), chassis, electronics, power, HRC being slow to bring parts, etc. Reminds me of VR's Ducati days, where redesigning the space shuttle was simply not enough.

“Last year I had those slides but always I controlled, always I felt the rear wheel. But this year for some reason I don't feel." MM

Click to expand...

Ah...its the tires stupid. Conspiracy?

JPSLotus · Jun 1, 2015

littlesparrows said:
i bet at 37, VR will still be a total babe.

soooooooooo - holla.

I know girls find him attractive, but what's attractive about an anorexic guy who is what 6'1 and weighs 140lbs? If he lived in Somalia, we'd be seeing him in commercials about hunger.

Willski · Jun 1, 2015

levigarrett said:
[/B]

You make me laugh man.

Lotus has this right. MM keeps trying to put a 2nd or 3rd place bike 10 seconds in front, and that won't work. After all, he's not Casey Fukin Stoner! There will be days when MM has the best bike properly set up. When that happens, he's largely unstoppable. That being said, we've seen this show from Lorenzo before. If he gets a few more wins, I think he's going to change the calculation for several of the others. This is in my estimation, the best looking GP season in some time. Multiple contenting machines and several riders who are no longer in awe of either Rossi or MM. These guys all look hungry. A healthy Dani can also take wins.

I dig it. BTW Jums, I don't think there's enough air in the room for you and Krop. Unfortunately, I doubt we'll see much of him now that you've returned. That's unfortunate.

+1

This actually could be a half decent season. Yamaha and Ducnotsocrapi getting better. Honda with front ends issues. MissileMarq not so unbeatable.
Redding goes on a season long winning run
Jum returns to the forum and educates everyone about motorcycle racing

levigarrett · Jun 1, 2015

littlesparrows said:
i bet at 37, VR will still be a total babe.

soooooooooo - holla.

Ok honey, you into this?

Valentino 2030 Champoinship perhaps?

Marquez: What has happened?

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