Marc Marquez faces six-month layoff after third surgery on arm

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I am very confident he will do whatever it takes to get back to sufficient functionality, and that he will totally ignore any residual discomfort he might have. The one guy who might rival him for toughness and willpower required a year’s interregnum before he won the 1994 title though.

The bone has to knit first, and until it does it hasn’t. That is my doubt about next season, everything is subsidiary to the fracture healing, and after his stormy course he and his medical advisors have to be fairly certain he is past that stage before he works on anything else with the arm.

I agree with this.
With Csorrenti experience though, what we have to remember is that elite athletes can afford the best in pre-op and post-op care. When I've been injured a lot of the rehab has come down to the type of care or treatment I could afford at the time, along with time I could dedicate etc. These guys have a full team of staff catering to everything to do with their rehab which is why elite athletes make comebacks that are super human. As well as being driven in a way that most of us will never know they will also have someone on their ... pushing them to do whatever needs to be done at the times when it seems to hard, they're tired, frustrated etc. I would be beyond surprised if Marquez takes the championship next year but I would be much more surprised if he never wins another title.
 
Marc has uploaded photos to social media of him starting up his workout routines again, so I take this as a positive development. It doesn't provide any insight into how he will handle being back on a grand prix motorcycle of course, but being that mental toughness makes a huge difference out there, we know he's got that in spades. I would say if any rider can make a successful comeback from this injury, it would be him because his mental attitude/approach is greater than anyone else currently on the grid. And let's face it...the proof is in him riding dodgy bikes to world titles. He single-handedly won HRC the constructor's championship in 2019. That's a feat that doesn't get acknowledged quite enough especially since it basically turned into a 1 v. 4 match against the other two major factories.

I know it's become commonplace to say Marc's injury was the end result of taking too many chances. I'd argue it ties into that increased grip Michelin rear. I personally feel it was a perfect storm with regards to the grip level of the rear and the scorching heat of Jerez that did him in that day. To elaborate, my suspicion is that he was spinning up the rear and sliding a little bit through the corner as he normally would. You can see before he highsides he lays down a major strip of rubber on the track surface.



Right as he's starting to pick the bike back up, it looks like the rear tire regained full grip unexpectedly, throwing him off. I think if the race had been in May like normal, this likely never would have happened, or even if it had been in the fall when temperatures started cooling down. They never raced in Jerez in July and you combine that with the 2020 Michelin rear, I think that was the problem. He just had the misfortune of being in the wrong spot when the bike hit him.
 
Was he working out with the fractured arm ?. If he is, bingo, but a previous video showed him working out with the other arm.

I like your theory for the proximate cause of his arm fracture, but he was pushing really hard for no purpose other than to prove a point to the field in general and probably FQ in particular, he had already come through the field to second and the time gap to first was too big for even him to overcome with the number of laps remaining. He injured the shoulder once for similar reasons.
 
Was he working out with the fractured arm ?. If he is, bingo, but a previous video showed him working out with the other arm.

I like your theory for the proximate cause of his arm fracture, but he was pushing really hard for no purpose other than to prove a point to the field in general and probably FQ in particular, he had already come through the field to second and the time gap to first was too big for even him to overcome with the number of laps remaining. He injured the shoulder once for similar reasons.

I just look at what happened as an outgrowth of Michelin continuing to provide what IMO has been a substandard GP tire since 2016. I know we discussed all of this at the time regarding how abysmal their front tire was, but I have an ethical issue with designing a rear tire for the sole purpose of benefitting the inline 4 machines. To me anyway, it's more evidence that there should be two tire suppliers in that class as opposed to a situation that results in every bike being designed to a spec tire. Yeah he did push harder than he should have but that's an easy criticism to make in hindsight. He's who he is because he's made a successful career out of riding on the limit more consistently and frequently than any other rider during his career.
 
I just look at what happened as an outgrowth of Michelin continuing to provide what IMO has been a substandard GP tire since 2016. I know we discussed all of this at the time regarding how abysmal their front tire was, but I have an ethical issue with designing a rear tire for the sole purpose of benefitting the inline 4 machines. To me anyway, it's more evidence that there should be two tire suppliers in that class as opposed to a situation that results in every bike being designed to a spec tire. Yeah he did push harder than he should have but that's an easy criticism to make in hindsight. He's who he is because he's made a successful career out of riding on the limit more consistently and frequently than any other rider during his career.

Sure, he is who he is which is why he has all the titles, and I really hope this injury won’t stop him from being competitive for further titles, which is why I would be very happy if this is a new video and he is using both arms in training, although a little surprised if the fracture had healed to that extent given all the previous complications.

I agree the Michelin tyres are rubbish and don’t suit left field riding styles or bike designs, and surely with riders at least we are looking for them to be out of the ordinary.
 
Marc has uploaded photos to social media of him starting up his workout routines again, so I take this as a positive development. It doesn't provide any insight into how he will handle being back on a grand prix motorcycle of course, but being that mental toughness makes a huge difference out there, we know he's got that in spades. I would say if any rider can make a successful comeback from this injury, it would be him because his mental attitude/approach is greater than anyone else currently on the grid. And let's face it...the proof is in him riding dodgy bikes to world titles. He single-handedly won HRC the constructor's championship in 2019. That's a feat that doesn't get acknowledged quite enough especially since it basically turned into a 1 v. 4 match against the other two major factories.

I know it's become commonplace to say Marc's injury was the end result of taking too many chances. I'd argue it ties into that increased grip Michelin rear. I personally feel it was a perfect storm with regards to the grip level of the rear and the scorching heat of Jerez that did him in that day. To elaborate, my suspicion is that he was spinning up the rear and sliding a little bit through the corner as he normally would. You can see before he highsides he lays down a major strip of rubber on the track surface.



Right as he's starting to pick the bike back up, it looks like the rear tire regained full grip unexpectedly, throwing him off. I think if the race had been in May like normal, this likely never would have happened, or even if it had been in the fall when temperatures started cooling down. They never raced in Jerez in July and you combine that with the 2020 Michelin rear, I think that was the problem. He just had the misfortune of being in the wrong spot when the bike hit him.

The whole thing was a perfect storm not just the accident but the fallout. Unusual back to back races meant he came back the week of the operation. The shortened season meant that he thought missing one race could end his title hopes when in a longer season he may mot have rushed back.
He bought into the Fabio hype along with a lot of others. If he knew Fabio was going to falter like he did, he probably doesn't come back.
 
The whole thing was a perfect storm not just the accident but the fallout. Unusual back to back races meant he came back the week of the operation. The shortened season meant that he thought missing one race could end his title hopes when in a longer season he may mot have rushed back.
He bought into the Fabio hype along with a lot of others. If he knew Fabio was going to falter like he did, he probably doesn't come back.

The first surgery was doomed to fail regardless of whether he came back or not. I've read multiple accounts elsewhere that it was not a well performed surgery with how the plate was attached. The screws were already starting to back out before he ever exerted any force on the arm. So it was only a matter of time before things went wrong there, not if.
 
The first surgery was doomed to fail regardless of whether he came back or not. I've read multiple accounts elsewhere that it was not a well performed surgery with how the plate was attached. The screws were already starting to back out before he ever exerted any force on the arm. So it was only a matter of time before things went wrong there, not if.

I wouldn't agree with this assumption which is all that it is. This sounds like propaganda to excuse the actions/decisions following his initial surgery.

Whether or not the operation was suboptimal. There is no doubting the contribution of having disturbed the fracture site through breaking the plate and having to undergo an additional procedure for that. Breaking the plate isn't easy and takes secure fixation to achieve.
 
I wouldn't agree with this assumption which is all that it is. This sounds like propaganda to excuse the actions/decisions following his initial surgery.

Whether or not the operation was suboptimal. There is no doubting the contribution of having disturbed the fracture site through breaking the plate and having to undergo an additional procedure for that. Breaking the plate isn't easy and takes secure fixation to achieve.

You would know better than me, but I agree the trying to ride was probably more problematic than the initial operation, and the second operation may have been the problematic one as far as the actual operation was concerned. The press releases in the last week do seem to imply that bony union is at least in process now which is somewhat encouraging.
 
The first surgery was doomed to fail regardless of whether he came back or not. I've read multiple accounts elsewhere that it was not a well performed surgery with how the plate was attached. The screws were already starting to back out before he ever exerted any force on the arm. So it was only a matter of time before things went wrong there, not if.

100% agree. Even if it held on that first race, it was always going to fail at some point. The correct response was to Marquez he can’t ride and put him in a cast. Not screws no plate no choice. That is the doctors actual duty to the patient.
 
100% agree. Even if it held on that first race, it was always going to fail at some point. The correct response was to Marquez he can’t ride and put him in a cast. Not screws no plate no choice. That is the doctors actual duty to the patient.

I think they pretty much always plate a fracture like that these days. You are likely correct otherwise though, he should have been immobilised, as he was after the 3rd operation.
 
I wouldn't agree with this assumption which is all that it is. This sounds like propaganda to excuse the actions/decisions following his initial surgery.

Whether or not the operation was suboptimal. There is no doubting the contribution of having disturbed the fracture site through breaking the plate and having to undergo an additional procedure for that. Breaking the plate isn't easy and takes secure fixation to achieve.

I read what one surgeon said after he looked at the initial image of the plates and screws. He said it was a problem right from the get-go, and other surgeons said the same thing. The big question at least from those quarters was what was it so poorly done to begin with. Riding a motorcycle shortly after the surgery was a bad idea yes, but even had that not occurred, he was still going to get complications because it was not done well to begin with for whatever reason. Only the surgeon who did it can answer that question and I don't suspect we're ever going to know that answer. Calling it propaganda is rather dramatic. It's not because it didn't even come from anyone connected to Marquez or his circle, it came from people in the field with no vested interest in the entire situation.
 
I read what one surgeon said after he looked at the initial image of the plates and screws. He said it was a problem right from the get-go, and other surgeons said the same thing. The big question at least from those quarters was what was it so poorly done to begin with. Riding a motorcycle shortly after the surgery was a bad idea yes, but even had that not occurred, he was still going to get complications because it was not done well to begin with for whatever reason. Only the surgeon who did it can answer that question and I don't suspect we're ever going to know that answer. Calling it propaganda is rather dramatic. It's not because it didn't even come from anyone connected to Marquez or his circle, it came from people in the field with no vested interest in the entire situation.

From where I sit, there are two points being claimed. The first is that his initial operation was not optimal. I do not disagree there at all.

The second point seeming to be made is that he would have ended up in problems anyway if he had not returned, stressed the fixation, and broken the plate leading to him requiring more surgery.

My disagreement is with the second point. What I do know and feared when I read that the plate broke is that a second procedure would lead to more interference with the fracture site, which far more frequently leads to a non-union with or without infection. We know that this indeed happened. If he were restricted from riding with minimal stress on the fracture site allowed until there was clear healing underway, then things could easily have gone very differently.

I don't agree that there was a guarantee that trouble was awaiting from the get go after the initial procedure that he had. A procedure may be done that reduces the chance of healing but this doesn't mean that it's zero chance.

... unless I'm misunderstanding which is entirely possible.
 
From where I sit, there are two points being claimed. The first is that his initial operation was not optimal. I do not disagree there at all.

The second point seeming to be made is that he would have ended up in problems anyway if he had not returned, stressed the fixation, and broken the plate leading to him requiring more surgery.

My disagreement is with the second point. What I do know and feared when I read that the plate broke is that a second procedure would lead to more interference with the fracture site, which far more frequently leads to a non-union with or without infection. We know that this indeed happened. If he were restricted from riding with minimal stress on the fracture site allowed until there was clear healing underway, then things could easily have gone very differently.

I don't agree that there was a guarantee that trouble was awaiting from the get go after the initial procedure that he had. A procedure may be done that reduces the chance of healing but this doesn't mean that it's zero chance.

... unless I'm misunderstanding which is entirely possible.

From what you said they stripped too much periosteum. I am not sure whether the plate needed to be as long as it was if they were purely looking at the best operation to heal the fracture either. The first operation as you imply does seem to have achieved adequate fixation at least, and if the arm had been immobilised externally as after the third operation, or if he had even had it in a sling and refrained from doing anything strenuous with the arm it might have worked. Others are using the retrospectoscope now, but you at the time iirc were astonished and perhaps even dismayed that he was riding/allowed to ride the next round/the next week. I would surmise the first operation was performed with a view to his rapid return and may have been suboptimal because of same.

The only thing you didn’t predict was the infection, but if asked I am sure you would have considered that to be a possibility after a second invasive procedure.
 
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You would think HRC would have an bevy of doctors giving opinions on the health of the golden goose, and shutting down any attempt by the team or MM himself that runs counter, but I guess not.

You reap what you sow.
 
You would think HRC would have an bevy of doctors giving opinions on the health of the golden goose, and shutting down any attempt by the team or MM himself that runs counter, but I guess not.

You reap what you sow.

Well, it's like speeding or gambling. We do it thinking we will come out OK. If a disaster occurred every time, we would not take the risk since it wouldn't be a risk anymore, but just plain stupidity. Surgeon and team took a risk thinking they had a bailout if things didn't work out. They didn't expect problems to escalate as they did. Marc, who takes a risk every time he jumps on that bike, did what he is so accustomed to doing once he got the nod to go ahead. This is why he said that he depends on the team and doctors to help him decide. Once he's allowed, he will be going on the bike.... gotta love him for his tenacity. That's part of his training and conditioning. He's a gladiator.

Now that a disaster has occurred, the blame game starts. Someone has to be held fully accountable. This latest one about the initial operation being doomed to failure from the get go is one example.

With good, even reasonable, fixation, there's no need to wear a cast or sling. What he shouldn't be doing is heavy training and riding at MotoGP speeds as if there's no fracture trying to heal. It boggles my mind what they were thinking taking such a risk. The doctors and teams have been pushing the envelope with allowing riders to ride injured and they've been getting away with it. I was amazed at Lorenzo's early comeback after fracturing his clavicle and having it plated. He got away with it but it set an interesting precedent. Others would follow suit and try to push the envelope even further. The system of determining fitness for riding needs an overhaul and sadly, it takes events as these to prompt such change since otherwise, the teams and riders will be complaining.

It's the up to the governing body to legislate regulations that protect the riders from the teams and also, the riders from themselves. Not only rules that discourage cheating, dangerous or irresponsible riding, but also rules that ensure riders are properly recovered from injuries. A long bone fracture heals relatively predictably. The governing body's mistake is to buy into the notion that an internally fixated long-bone fracture that allows for early mobilisation and faster rehab, should be allowed to undergo the stresses of riding and worse, the risk of falling off the bike and stressing the fixation in an uncontrolled way.

When Marc withdrew from the race, I was relieved but further damage already been done. Enough to lead to the chain of events we are still witnessing unfold after almost a year, rather than 6-8 weeks.
 
Well, it's like speeding or gambling. We do it thinking we will come out OK. If a disaster occurred every time, we would not take the risk since it wouldn't be a risk anymore, but just plain stupidity. Surgeon and team took a risk thinking they had a bailout if things didn't work out. They didn't expect problems to escalate as they did. Marc, who takes a risk every time he jumps on that bike, did what he is so accustomed to doing once he got the nod to go ahead. This is why he said that he depends on the team and doctors to help him decide. Once he's allowed, he will be going on the bike.... gotta love him for his tenacity. That's part of his training and conditioning. He's a gladiator.

Now that a disaster has occurred, the blame game starts. Someone has to be held fully accountable. This latest one about the initial operation being doomed to failure from the get go is one example.

With good, even reasonable, fixation, there's no need to wear a cast or sling. What he shouldn't be doing is heavy training and riding at MotoGP speeds as if there's no fracture trying to heal. It boggles my mind what they were thinking taking such a risk. The doctors and teams have been pushing the envelope with allowing riders to ride injured and they've been getting away with it. I was amazed at Lorenzo's early comeback after fracturing his clavicle and having it plated. He got away with it but it set an interesting precedent. Others would follow suit and try to push the envelope even further. The system of determining fitness for riding needs an overhaul and sadly, it takes events as these to prompt such change since otherwise, the teams and riders will be complaining.

It's the up to the governing body to legislate regulations that protect the riders from the teams and also, the riders from themselves. Not only rules that discourage cheating, dangerous or irresponsible riding, but also rules that ensure riders are properly recovered from injuries. A long bone fracture heals relatively predictably. The governing body's mistake is to buy into the notion that an internally fixated long-bone fracture that allows for early mobilisation and faster rehab, should be allowed to undergo the stresses of riding and worse, the risk of falling off the bike and stressing the fixation in an uncontrolled way.

When Marc withdrew from the race, I was relieved but further damage already been done. Enough to lead to the chain of events we are still witnessing unfold after almost a year, rather than 6-8 weeks.

It didn’t really work for Lorenzo, other than him not injuring anyone else, he got 5th place points he wouldn’t have otherwise got then fell in practice for the next race missing that race and iirc 2 more, eventually losing the title by 4 points. Maybe he would have needed the mid season break to heal sufficiently anyway, but arithmetically at least he would have been better off missing the Assen race and the next race.

(EDIT Looked it up, actually only missed Sachsenring where he crashed and finished 6th the next race at Indianapolis, so arithmetically he made the right move unless not riding at Assen would have prevented him crashing at Sachsenring considering he likely wouldn’t have been in podium contention at Indy whatever he did).
 
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It's the up to the governing body to legislate regulations that protect the riders from the teams and also, the riders from themselves. Not only rules that discourage cheating, dangerous or irresponsible riding, but also rules that ensure riders are properly recovered from injuries. A long bone fracture heals relatively predictably. The governing body's mistake is to buy into the notion that an internally fixated long-bone fracture that allows for early mobilisation and faster rehab, should be allowed to undergo the stresses of riding and worse, the risk of falling off the bike and stressing the fixation in an uncontrolled way.

I can't stress what you've said here enough. Athletes must be saved from themselves in any sport. FIM/Dorna etc failed in their care of duty towards athletes here and at other times as well.
Because Marquez is hated by the Valeban they were very excited to jump on the bandwagon to blame Marquez and the I told you so wagon. When all Marquez was guilty of was doing what every athlete has done since the beginning of human competition and that is try to compete no matter what. That he was passed fit to ride while in a condition that was clearly not fit to ride is damming IMO.
I remember watching a video of Colin Edwards talking about being on track when he had some pretty strong pain killers and joking about how he was missing brake markers etc because of the influence that the pain killers had on him. I don't blame Edwards nor was the story he told unfunny with him telling it but the fact he was allowed on track with something in his system that he admitted impacted him in a negative way and could've potentially caused a disaster is disgraceful.
Motorbike racers aren't any tougher than the average athlete but most sports, their governing bodies and teams etc have protocols or a duty of care they stick to. In many cases Dorna/FIM, race teams etc have not shown that.
 
I can't stress what you've said here enough. Athletes must be saved from themselves in any sport. FIM/Dorna etc failed in their care of duty towards athletes here and at other times as well.
Because Marquez is hated by the Valeban they were very excited to jump on the bandwagon to blame Marquez and the I told you so wagon. When all Marquez was guilty of was doing what every athlete has done since the beginning of human competition and that is try to compete no matter what. That he was passed fit to ride while in a condition that was clearly not fit to ride is damming IMO.
I remember watching a video of Colin Edwards talking about being on track when he had some pretty strong pain killers and joking about how he was missing brake markers etc because of the influence that the pain killers had on him. I don't blame Edwards nor was the story he told unfunny with him telling it but the fact he was allowed on track with something in his system that he admitted impacted him in a negative way and could've potentially caused a disaster is disgraceful.
Motorbike racers aren't any tougher than the average athlete but most sports, their governing bodies and teams etc have protocols or a duty of care they stick to. In many cases Dorna/FIM, race teams etc have not shown that.

I remember the current HRC principal hanging out fake signs in regard to his gap to the second rider when Dani Pedrosa was leading a wet race at the Sachsenring by 7 seconds. Dani eventually crashed out. I am not sure I would rely on Puig in regard to rider safety either.

Colin Edwards might have started this, he rode 9 days after shattering his clavicle which was considered superhuman at that time.
 
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I remember the current HRC principal hanging out fake signs in regard to his gap to the second rider when Dani Pedrosa was leading a wet race at the Sachsenring by 7 seconds. Dani eventually crashed out. I am not sure I would rely on him in regard to rider safety either.

Colin Edwards might have started this, he rode 9 days after shattering his clavicle which was considered superhuman at that time.

IMO, It's not the Colin rode 9 days after shattering his clavicle, but that Colin was allowed to ride only 9 days after an injury.
 

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