I don't understand all the crap Ducati is copping for team orders and the mysterious map 8 setting. I quietly confident map 8 was not the cause of the front folding on J Lo in turn 15. Damn, he was luck to finish after that, how many front end washouts do you see saved in the wet. It could have all over for JL and Dovi's title hopes very easily after that.
MalaysianGP 2017
- Thread starter Jumkie
- Start date
-
- Tags
- 2017 malaysiangp
Help Support MotoGP Forum:
Before the front end folded Lorenzo had a gap that came considerably down after the suggestion. The front end folding could've been due to a lapse in concentration after slowing down to let Dovi through. We don't know for sure but the front end folding doesn't mean that mean that team orders weren't in place.
But likewise a diminishing gap does not mean that team orders were in place.
One thing that has been very evident this season is that Dovi manages both the race and more importantly his tyres (generally speaking, PI was more an aberration) such that he is stronger at the end of the race than most competitors. Likewise, JL has often started like a scaled cat only to drop off in pace with an occasional pickup nearer the end but more often he gets to a position and hangs there or thereabouts.
Sure map 8 may be suspicious, but then again, the race also played for the two riders in similar terms to their race management this season.
If Jorge was annoyed it may have been because the message actually was a team order; that they thought he needed a reminder could possibly have been offensive to him, as he pretty much has said he knew what he had to do. I would expect any rider for a major ream to ride for a team-mate in contention in this circumstance, although his team-mate basically having very little chance and being dependent on MM crashing or having a mechanical DNF to win the title would make it harder to give up a first Ducati win, something Valentino never managed, if he did do so. If he did, I like his chances at Valencia, where it is quite unlikely giving up a single place to Dovi will make a difference to the title outcome.
I take Gaz’s point that Dovi has been stronger at the end of races pretty much all year though as well.
Last edited:
From his comments I think Lorenzo was confident he could've challenged for the win whether his confidence was warranted or not we don't know. He's been fading this year down the stretch but did have a smarter strategy and the rain could've helped him with tyre life. He was ecstatic with his other podiums but this one was an almost complete 180 in attitude, he did the team thing or feels he did and it could just simply be something he was totally uncomfortable doing. He could feel like he was expected to help Ducati(in his opinion)cheat. He could feel that was his last shot at winning this season with Ducati having a less than stellar record at Valencia. He might feel now that with the championship where it is even if he has the pace to win he will be told not to in Valencia. He knows how he feels on the bike better than anyone here does and he genuinely might not think that he can ride the Ducati to a win under normal conditions. It could so many things and a combination, he was caught in a horrible situation I'm sure he did want to be in and was going to cop crap for it no matter which way he went.
Something I just considered is for Lorenzo in a way it's Deja vu from Valencia 2015 in that if he wins in Valencia his team/factory will be disappointed that the championship didn't go the way they had hoped. Instead of excitement and happiness he will be surrounded by disappointment.
Something I just considered is for Lorenzo in a way it's Deja vu from Valencia 2015 in that if he wins in Valencia his team/factory will be disappointed that the championship didn't go the way they had hoped. Instead of excitement and happiness he will be surrounded by disappointment.
We have been to Valencia before in this circumstance, in 2013, despite all blandishments from JL to race him a then very young MM took the points and the title. It is going to take a mechanical basically, or a very strange riding error, there aren't the riders and bikes out there who can restrict MM to worse than 10th however hard they try to block him particularly since he is entirely likely to be starting from considerably better than 10th on the grid.
If MM is running 4th in the later laps I doubt there would be any requirement for JL to give up a prospective win at Valencia, which is a great track for Jorge but as you say not so much for Ducati. I don't think he would have regarded it as cheating to give way to Dovi at Sepang if he did, this would actually be hypocrital given his attitude at Motegi 2010, but as you say he may well think another chance for a Ducati win for him might be a long time coming, with such a win alone meaning he would surpass Rossi at Ducati which could just possibly be a motive for him, and the chance for Dovi for which he has made the sacrifice (again if he did) being rather a slim one as I have said. I agree it is entirely possible for Jorge to have worked out how to be faster than Dovi in an individual race particularly in unusual conditions, he is no slouch and has had nearly a whole season to do so.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2007
- Messages
- 10,518
- Location
- Tennessee
As I stated , I don't think it's a big deal as he should try and help his teammate and team win a title, but has anyone who doesn't think he let Dovi through checked out lap analysis. It's pretty telling that the lap Dovi went by, Lorenzo's top speed dropped close to 20 kph over his high just a few laps earlier. The blip he had with the front was minute compared to many as they had to show it in slow motion and Lorenzo never flinched. They have those type moments a dozen times or more in a wet race. The fact that Nick Harris immediately went into defense mode says a lot as well. Like I said, no big deal, but please don't insult the fans and say it wasnt
It continues to amuse to see you Rossi 2015 conspiracy theory adherents expostulate about others being conspiracy theorists.
MM just won PI 2017 with the same tactical approach he applied in 2015, the only tactics which have been in any way successful for him at PI in the premier class, btw.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2007
- Messages
- 11,378
- Location
- Pomona NY
You may be sure that Rossi saw the video of the race and knew that Lorenzo had done what he never accomplished. That said, it was a vastly different Duc.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2007
- Messages
- 11,378
- Location
- Pomona NY
By the time they all arrive at Valencia (if not right now) Ducati will be resigned to what appears to be inevitable. They will have to settle for beating the pants off of Yamaha and having given giant Honda a great fight. My guess is they're already having head sessions in part concerning how rapidly KTM with massive funding is gaining momentum.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2015
- Messages
- 6,290
- Location
- NJ
Well I wouldn't say anything is inevitable. Marquez winning the title while the most likely scenario is not a foregone conclusion by any means. Anything can happen as we all know from that most unlikeliest of scenarios in 2006.
JL already was much faster at Aragon and Jerez...
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2016
- Messages
- 642
- Location
- Santa Cruz, Cal
A. Did not the people who pay Lorenzo say that they expected Lorenzo to do the right thing? I don't know how anyone could think that wasn't a Ducati team order, considering they told the whole world. Whether that slip was an accident or not, Lorenzo stated that he was careful not to endanger Dovizioso's lead, once he was passed by Dovizioso.
B. The only reason that this championship is going on is because Marquez had a catastrophic engine failure. Duh! This championship would have been over already without that Honda mistake that had NOTHING to do with Marquez nor Dovizioso. Thus, it is still very possible that AD could win, but it will to be due to uncontrolled circumstances that give him the title.
B. The only reason that this championship is going on is because Marquez had a catastrophic engine failure. Duh! This championship would have been over already without that Honda mistake that had NOTHING to do with Marquez nor Dovizioso. Thus, it is still very possible that AD could win, but it will to be due to uncontrolled circumstances that give him the title.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2015
- Messages
- 329
- Location
- UK
Agree it will be circumstances that give him the title but some times that happens and that's just your donald duck.
Dovi has made the best of his chances though. Right from his first win whilst suffering food poisoning. Big ask to win at Valencia on the duke.
Dovi has made the best of his chances though. Right from his first win whilst suffering food poisoning. Big ask to win at Valencia on the duke.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2007
- Messages
- 11,378
- Location
- Pomona NY
I've avoided posing that scenario, because I don't want to jinx things. I'm rooting for Dovi.
I find myself thinking like that too, but I don't think it' the right way to look at it. That engine failure was part of the Honda effort this year and if they lose the championship because of it it's just as valid as if a rider screws up a race.
Vinales could say the championship should be his, but for circumstance, using that logic.
What about Dovi getting taken out by Aleix?
So which strategy would you choose for Marquez? With a 21 point lead, the only chance for Dovi to win is to win the race, and MM finishing worse than 11th, since a Dovi win would mean 7 vs 6 race wins, and Dovi would win if MM ended 12th, due to a tie. Since basically the only scenarios for MM to finish less than 11th are a crash or mechanical failure, my strategy is simple:
Put a brand new engine on his bike (I'm assuming he already used the allotted amount. Couldn't find that info).
Thay way, all 3 possible issues are minimized: mechanical DNF, MM pushing too hard to win and crashing out, and others (Rossi?) trying to crash him. That way, he'd be stupid to try to push for a win with a grid penalty, and would just take it easy hopefully out of harm's way far from the aggressive pack at the front.
Put a brand new engine on his bike (I'm assuming he already used the allotted amount. Couldn't find that info).
Thay way, all 3 possible issues are minimized: mechanical DNF, MM pushing too hard to win and crashing out, and others (Rossi?) trying to crash him. That way, he'd be stupid to try to push for a win with a grid penalty, and would just take it easy hopefully out of harm's way far from the aggressive pack at the front.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2015
- Messages
- 1,869
- Location
- Chertsey, Surrey, UK
...... Rossi recently have you..............
Similar threads
