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Kangaroos are like Unicorns to the rest of the world. I want to see pics of them in their natural habitat. Are these things just hopping around the neighborhood like rabbits?
MalaysianGP 2017
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Kangaroos are like Unicorns to the rest of the world. I want to see pics of them in their natural habitat. Are these things just hopping around the neighborhood like rabbits?
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Here's one breaching below...
Lean and fast I'm told buddy.
If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
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Arrabbiata1
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Sure you are...
You can repeat you didn't say what you did about Dovi my friend, but I've already quoted you saying it. That's what is great about debating on a forum instead of fleeting verbal words that can be easily revised or not recalled later.
This is why I'm calling a double standard buddy; you dismiss that Marc benefited from team orders outright, its not even imaginable to some of you, hell you won't even consider it, but with Dovi no such benefit of the doubt, even though the similarities are compelling its just not acceptable, it screams double standard. You guys just can't believe Dovi would beat his teammate straight up in the same fashion as Marc did to his, yet Dovi has beat Marc when Marc put on an all out attack! But you guys want to believe in the fantasy scenario that Lorenzo was somehow going to do what motivated-killer-shark-Marc did NOT do on TWO occasions against Dovi! You are taking the position that Lorenzo was going to do what Marc didn't achieve? Rain or Dry. Dovi beating his teammate is 'suspect' according to you because you insist on giving emphasis to team orders (and Pov, JP etal) however, Marc beating his teammate is a foregone conclusion--double standard. I'm calling you guys out on this .........
Allow me to quote 33 Coupe...again. "Nobody is disputing team orders genius." Every time you try to re-litigate the existence of team order I will post this quote with a number count: 4
Sorry P4, you may be reading it as being smug, but what should I do? You and others who have taken this position keep trying to re-frame it as if we are disputing team orders, we are not buddy.
FOUR
Now, this is really fascinating, I've repeatedly said the existence of team orders is not in dispute, and have actually kept count for you to show that you keep coming back to this, again because you must frame it this way. Its much easier to argue from a position that is not actually being disputed. But here we can't just wiggle out, its easy to quote myself and you and remind us what has 'actually' been said. And, knowing you would come back to this reframing of the debate I had anticipating it by saying this below, pay special attention to the highlighted part.
"next"
Bro,really? You don't understand the difference between the Rosccio Rule versus TEAM orders?
The reason for the outrage towards Ruccio's Rule (on this forum only, everybody else loved and approved it) is because Rosccio was requiring EVERYBODY to move asside and let the 'correct' contender through. The operative word is 'TEAM' orders versus anybody riding a motorcycle should move out the way. Petruccio was not a 'teammate' of Rossi. To contrast just how outrageous this Rosccio rule is, we had an honorable Aussie name Anthony West who posted an inspired post on social media highlighting how insane is Rosccio's Rule. BTW, a rule Rossi didn't even respect when he beat Vinalez, eliminating him from the championship at none other than Philip Island, of all places!
Here is a great example of why I'm debating this double standard towards Dovi so adamantly (yeah, I know, I'm probably now off your Xmas list, my bad) but follow me here; did you see how many reporters grilled Rossi over eliminating Mavrick Vinalez and YAMAHA's chances from the championship contention? Did you see how many reporters were lining up to compare the infamous Roccio Rule and the notion of Team Order in the post race podium conference? That would have been the perfect moment, you had all the correct protagonist on stage: Marquez (the reason for the Rosccio rule) Rossi, and teammate, and at that very moment, just eliminated contender Mavrick Vinalez. Reporter #1: Rossi, great podium, question, can you draw comparisons to your sentiments of non contenders battling with title contenders of 2015 to this podium? Follow up question #2, can you draw any parallels of the notion of team orders to Rosccio's rule, the rule that you made infamous when people were harassing other riders on social media to pull over for you at the Season Finale? And question #3 if I may, Rossi, you just eliminated your teammate Vinalez, would you have expected Vinalez to pull over for you to preserve your championship for Yamaha and yourself at Valencia 2015, as you accused Honda rider Marquez sitting next to you here of refusing to pass Lorenzo, non-teammate at the time? (I've often thought of making an ongoing thread of questions that reporters are too chickenshit to ask. These would be three entries.)
The difference between team orders and Rosccio's Rule can't be overstated buddy.
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I was wondering why Lin Jarvis was looking so wooden faced at PI.
Rossi is (unsurprisingly) doubly hypocritical on this issue of course because of Motegi 2010.
One of the aspects which incensed me in 2015 was that Rossi had gained his lead on Lorenzo with every other rider trying to beat Lorenzo, particularly in wet races which were conditions in which Lorenzo didn't thrive that year. Perhaps Rossi should have called for all races to be wet once he had the lead.
What was also instructive about 2015 apart from it becoming nakedly apparent that Rossi was directly and with malice aforethought manipulating his fans against his rivals was the further revelation of the absolute gullibility of that element among his fans/unquestioning acceptance of his every utterance, no matter how ridiculous and illogical.
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Posted elsewhere but in their natural habitat from Morgan Park race meeting a few months back
The flag
The reason
And from Bryan Staring (the rider in the pic)
Mind you, on the plus side at least none of those were Roger.
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I don't think Rossi ever suggested that riders must pull over or not compete with riders battling for a championship. For example, he didn't complain about AI at PI, or DP at Sepang. The crux of his contention was that a rider should not deliberately hinder a rider battling for a title - i.e. run the other guy wide, battle with a guy you're faster than with on the day.
The question of whether MM actually screwed with VR at PI is a separate one - which we've both concluded is an unreasonable accusation.
Depends whether you believe the report from David Emmett about Valentino Rossi approaching Pedrosa after one of the races prior to PI to ask him why he had chosen to beat him when not in contention himself, to which I imagine Jumkie is referring.
Hearsay evidence sure, but rather less outlandish imo than Rossi’s own contentions about PI 2015, and certainly not a total invention by the “Rossi haters” forum. Valentino took his time about absolving Iannone as well.
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You mean he never spelled it out, he certainly suggested it. Non contenders shouldn't be getting involved in the championship was the 'suggestion'.
Friend, we didn’t make it up here from thin air, and certainly Anthony West isn't a member here, at least I don't think so (we did have an "Ant Fan" though) to have responded to the notion of Rosccio's Rule.
It's here somewhere documented buddy, you can go back through the archives. This didn’t happen over a singular moment, it was dripping over several rounds, slowly building the doc"trine of Rosccio's Rule. Consider Aragon 15 for example, round before the fly aways, where Pedrosa raced Rossi uncharacteristically tough, at first it just seemed like "that's racing", but it was a bitter drip to swallow, and reports started to surface that Rossi had visited Pedro and gave him a tongue lashing, fall out that trickled. This report evolved, it later was thought Rossi had rather asked through a third party, why Pedrosa raced him so hard. A reporter later asked Pedro, if I recall it was at Valencia, Pedrosa was rather cagey and measured in his response, consider the context where riders were under gag orders and a general squeeze on free speak over the extraordinary action of canceling press conferences (you're not gonna make us dig that up too are you?) A few month ago we were talking about this, and I believe journalists Michael Scott mentioned that Pedrosa was asked about the incident.
Here is a good example about biased benefit of the doubt, follow me here; we will never really know if Rossi expressed his displeasure with Pedrosa, I believe it because there seemed to be quite a bit of smoke surrounding it, where Rossi possibly pressed Pedro, suggesting that he should let the contenders race eachother without interference, who knows right? You're skeptical. Check this out, you thoroughly dismiss Pedro letting Marc have 4th at Sepang, but suggest "we will never know" if Lorenzo let Dovi have the position. Isn't it fascinating?
Anyway, back to Rossi's 'suggestion' of Rosccio's Rule. After Phillip Island, a bit more dribble and trickle fell out from non-contenders messing with contenders. Particularly Iannone, Rossi's fans were ready to eat his children. It was also reported that Rossi visited Iannone and gave him a tongue lashing, I would never expect to get the truth by asking Iannone, and as far as I recall he was never grilled. But let's be honest here, Iannone wouldn't have thrown Rossi under the bus. Perhaps a deal was cut. Rossi stayed that execution, Iannone's response? He played nice the rest of the season. Perhaps a backroom conversation? We'll never know. However might there be anything we could examine to get a clue about this 'suggestion' to let contenders be contenders? Sure there is, when you contrast the treatment by Rossi towards Marquez. Remember RCV6, this was before the infamous Sepang race; in the same pre-event media blitz where Rossi told the angry minions to leave Iannone alone for his criminal actions at Phillip Island, Marquez was the real criminal! Was there a 'suggestion' there? Yup, loud and clear. This was before the Sepang race. The die was being cast, don't race me, don't mess with me, you're not involved in the title. The rest is history.
If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
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I think that report is probably credible (although the handshake straight after the race might suggest otherwise: ).
I'm assuming it happened.
All of the reports I read at the time suggested that Rossi queried DP on why DP had been especially aggressive when racing Rossi. In other words, he was suggesting that DP was intentionally helping JL. That is qualitatively different to asking why someone isn't pulling over to let you pass.
My personal view is that Rossi wanted the 10th so desperately that when he saw it starting to possibly slip away, he became rather paranoid (at DP at Aragon, at MM at PI). DP The pressure got to him.
DP was just racing hard because it's a special motivation to be fighting the championship leader, and one of the best riders at battling in GP history. All very understandable.
MotoGP Aragon: Pedrosa lauds 'best battle' of career | News
Rossi questioned Pedrosa after Aragon ? GPxtra
Fair enough. However as Jumkie mentioned there is also Ant West who said he wasn't pulling over for Rossi in a most irate fashion on social media, later withdrawn, and Mick Doohan for that matter who said Rossi couldn't expect non-contenders not to try to beat him.
I usually eschew cod psychology, but your view is also mine, that Rossi became so obsessed with winning the 10th that he became paranoid, particularly after PI. We even had a psychologist on here who said he looked sleep deprived at the Sepang press conference possibly from cogitating over the PI race. That bike racing sage Uccio also later proudly announced that it was he who had discerned MM’s “cheating” at PI, so it seems likely Valentino's attitude was encouraged by his entourage.
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