Lorenzo sign with HRC

Jumkie said:

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That’s because you’re Canadian. Apparently you have a weak and dishonest leader and your people cannot be trusted. (I’ll get my coat).


I don't know where you got that I am Canadian Aye.



It’s a good forum, and if I may say, it used to be better because people were actively setting out to meet each other and all of us reading and seeing the pictures used to enjoy it. When we weren’t there we lived vicariously through those that did go. A lot of that has been lost (visit the meet up threads). The Lounge and other social threads used to teem with activity.


Yes, I very much agree. I used to derive great pleasure reading the meet up threads. Jumkie and Rog's great adventure was an outstanding example.



With all due respect Barbs, I think this is flawed advice. “Don’t get involved” is not the advice I would give people, rather I’d say, take Barbedwirebikker’s lead from his previous actions on this matter! Get involved in an affective way particularly employing one’s own capacities. Perhaps when you got involved by telling Kesh to “grow up and stop acting like a 5 year old” you feel like you got burned, I don’t know honestly given you said I used your quote as fodder (which lead me to consider you wanted to distance yourself from your comment) either you regret doing it (which you said already you don’t) or you live by a different standard than your advice above (which I think you do, for which I am encouraged); you did get involved on the side of civility, and I commend you for it (Danski was the other one too). Your ‘actions’ (not your words above) are the same advice I’d have for Furiosa. As I’ve said, you need not go beyond this thread to see who and why this thread was derailed. Sorry to bring this up if it causes you discomfort, but I think you chimed in previously in exactly the honorable way when you expressed your disapproval.



I didn't say "don't get involved", in fact the exact opposite.

And yes, I can see where you are coming from in regard for the last portion of above paragraph.
Again I still stand by my initial "grow up" position, but heck; I have a whole lot going on in my life at the moment that I don't really have the desire nor feel swayed enough to participate in as you call it "this flame war"

As an aside, and again I'm not taking sides, nor supporting any particular members. I have not seen you make comment towards Synn for his barrage of disparaging remarks towards a multitude of members. Your silence on this can be seen as approval as you state.





Sure, and I understand it. It’s 'only' “online” stuff, right? When people have not met eachother it seems to be a lower standard, I will give you that, when they have met each other then personal insults, falsehoods levied, and a dynamic where it can be rather examined openly, it becomes a different thing all together. The virtual world has become part of the real one; it has become virtually indistinguishable. It’s not a surprise that in the ‘real world’ people often scroll past as well, they can’t be bothered. This dynamic I describe has had real consequences on real relationships, some even were snuffed out before they began, which is disappointing and unfortunate. No wonder we live in the world such as this, real and virtual, all the same. Check out the consequences the virtual world, particularly social media (of which this forum is a part) on people’s real lives.


Correct, Online participation is a mirror of our modern society. Yet people will always be more brazen and aggressive online, because generally the internet world provides a cloak of anonymity.


Back on topic then.

In the words of Furiosa, “so much to discuss.” All these ramifications, fall-out, and aftermath of this blockbuster and remarkable shift of the status quo as a result of Lorenzo going to Honda as opposed to Yamaha: potential and predictions of performance, MotoGP’s balance of power, the Alberto Puig vs Lin Jarvis ledger, the internal struggles to be contested between Emilio Alzamora and Lorenzo’s counterpart (who might that be? Have we covered this ground yet?), not the least up for discussion is the anticipation of Honda’s development direction, and the clash between two multiple champions of Marquez, the smiling assassin verses Lorenzo, the ego driven metronome machine! We may even actually see Jorge ride the Honda some day!!! Our collective heads are spinning Libby. (You may remember an old member here named CaliKid and LorenzoFan, both of which are great personal friends of mine, they are the male versions of you Libby. You should see them right now, like teen girls at a boy band concert). Wait, we are just 5 races into this season?!


Yes, yes, yes. I'm excited for Jorge, and his fans. I believe he will gel with the RCV just fine. Already made the statement that I believe he will win on it within six rounds next season. Now I'll go one step further; Lorenzo will win at Qatar 2019, maybe


Also I don't know how that thumbs down got at the head of my post. This is not intentional.

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Jumkie said:

I think that’s where the mistake is made, a rationalization that it’s compartmentalized between: diversion of threads (trivial) vs racism, personal attacks, etc. (significant/evil). To be fair, we ‘all’ do it, though there are certain patterns of human behavior that can be identified (more below). If we can manage to perceive it as trial then we can accept all manner of malevolence (see world/local history). Is it any wonder that master manipulators throughout history have often painted these affronts incrementally as ‘trivial’ (silly, lighthearted, taking the piss, no big deal, don’t be thin-skinned)? Look no further than the political climate, you ever see anything justified this way?

Let me back up a bit Mike, as I said before, the only reason I bring this up with you directly is because you acknowledged the dynamic above (‘support for JP’, particularly a reply to a peculiar member with a rather odd and narrow function, the forum feature navigation is there for your examination). The other reason is because I think you can appreciate what I’ll say on the matter here in at least purely scholastic. I don’t think I should have to defend myself for engaging you, but just incase you feel ‘dragged in’, though frankly I have far more faith in your faculties of discernment.

This forum is a fascinating ‘social experiment’ as I’ve said before many times, the interactions could easily be about any other subject, but fundamentally it is a ‘community’ of people, a group, as such beholden to social dynamics (microcosm of macro society if I may). Sometimes when I observe dynamics on the forum I’m reminded of a snippet of academic research, documentaries, world/political history, TED talks, etc. I’ve come across; it is fascinating how even in such a small group we can see elements of human tendencies play out. Just a small example if I may (then I’ll move on, as my unanswered question I posed to you are a rather unmistakable message that you don’t want to get involved for whatever reason, though indirectly you did, again see above), notwithstanding, the social dynamic of bullying follows certain patterns for example; imagine a pie graph, of the 100% of those privy to it, a percentage will speak up (this is the smallest percentage, a tiny percentage do so to their own risk of status) others will side with the bully, others will pretend to ignore it though they are aware of it, and some will interact with the bully but not acknowledge it (the bully perceives it as approval). Each of these subset individuals make a conscience decision though, because bullying is a social construct, each rationalizes their response. Another interesting point is that bullies are not the same, there are patters of types, and based on it, is how they operate, using manipulation and concealment (codes) as tools. For example, you make a distinction above regarding the trivial (derailed threads) versus racism/personal attacks, which you see as a blot, yet often racism is covert, coded, concealed, precisely because if its out in the open it is easily rebuked. Somehow you've parsed it into simply the notion of derailed threads from the individual responsible. This is why bullies and racist are often called ‘cowards’ that is, we ‘acknowledge the element of disguise’ (the colloquial would be ‘chickenshit’). Which in previous posts I think I debunked the glaring though perhaps subtle "coincidences". There is much research on the subject actually, all of which makes one rather bleak conclusion, it works well.





It’s a good forum, and if I may say, it used to be better because people were actively setting out to meet each other and all of us reading and seeing the pictures used to enjoy it. When we weren’t there we lived vicariously through those that did go. A lot of that has been lost (visit the meet up threads). The Lounge and other social threads used to teem with activity. Thank you for reading some of the history of my posts on the subject. As I’ve said a few times, one not need go beyond this thread to identify the source, but I also understand in part why people steer away, particularly because we may not have a ‘dog in the fight, so to speak, though as I’ve said, ‘we’ are all part of this community, in this way we sort of do, right.


With all do respect Barbs, I think this is flawed advice. “Don’t get involved” is not the advice I would give people, rather I’d say, take Barbedwirebikker’s lead from his previous actions on this matter! Get involved in an affective way particularly employing one’s own capacities. Perhaps when you got involved by telling Kesh to “grow up and stop acting like a 5 year old” you feel like you got burned, I don’t know honestly given you said I used your quote as fodder (which lead me to consider you wanted to distance yourself from your comment) either you regret doing it (which you said already you don’t) or you live by a different standard than your advice above (which I think you do, for which I am encouraged); you did get involved on the side of civility, and I commend you for it (Danski was the other one too). Your ‘actions’ (not your words above) are the same advice I’d have for Furiosa. As I’ve said, you need not go beyond this thread to see who and why this thread was derailed. Sorry to bring this up if it causes you discomfort, but I think you chimed in previously in exactly the honorable way when you expressed your disapproval.



Sure, and I understand it. It’s 'only' “online” stuff, right? When people have not met eachother it seems to be a lower standard, I will give you that, when they have met each other then personal insults, falsehoods levied, and a dynamic where it can be rather examined openly, it becomes a different thing all together. The virtual world has become part of the real one; it has become virtually indistinguishable. It’s not a surprise that in the ‘real world’ people often scroll past as well, they can’t be bothered. This dynamic I describe has had real consequences on real relationships, some even were snuffed out before they began, which is disappointing and unfortunate. No wonder we live in the world such as this, real and virtual, all the same. Check out the consequences the virtual world, particularly social media (of which this forum is a part) on people’s real lives.

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michaelm said:

The real vs virtual thing is something I ponder, partly because I myself am more belligerent on here than I am in actuality. My politics like my views on most racing matters are similar to yours, btw.

I actually go the other way than you on this however. I think in real life there are decent people who have different (obviously misguided imo) genuinely held political views than I do, who get really upset if I take them on since I can out-argue them if I choose, partly admittedly because I am a considerable sophist as my participation in this forum demonstrates, and I find the personal cost too high, as I did with my flame war with Cliche. It is also the reason Trump got elected, because the argument that essentially you would have to be stupid to vote for him, even if true was not actually all that good a campaign strategy for Hillary and emboldened people to turn out to vote for Trump while Democrats were divided by the Hillary vs Sanders thing.

I also see the potential in a really vicious slanging match both to do harm if the other party is psychologically vulnerable, and to become involved in a conflict with someone who is actually genuinely deranged, drunk, drug addled etc, not something I choose as a recreational pursuit.

I understand the historical context of your issues with Keshav, and your attitude, although I think you ignore the role of the ex-member who actually made the remarks which precipitated Roger's departure (?Zut Alors). Several rational new members don't actually see the issue currently quite as you do, and can perhaps be left to make their own assessments.

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JohnnyKnockdown said:

I hope you never consider practicing proctology because you seem incapable of pointing out where the ....... lies

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michaelm said:

A good line, but I could extend the diascussion to people including me not necessarily having full insight as to their own status as far as assholedom is concerned.

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michaelm said:

Partly wishful thinking on my part, but why wouldn't they?. Having a perhaps not very good bike many cannot ride which is winning because of a rider's remarkable talent is not a preferred narrative for them I believe, although in a notable historical case which comes to mind they had both a remarkably talented rider and a rather good bike.

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Keshav said:

From a purely pragmatic point of view, to have two different paths of development means splitting the efforts of the engineers into two different camps, a diverting of resources as it were.

As I understand it, not having the team all on the same page, is antithetical to the prevailing culture of uniform thinking and team effort in the workplace.

From the point of view of plain old pride, historically Honda engineers have been known to be very stubbornly attached to their designs. Honda has demonstrated a capacity to give a certain amount of lip service when it comes to acknowledging the greatness of any given rider, but in the end, the rider, like a good or even great samurai, is but a well paid employee whose job is to realize the value of the company's brilliant creations.

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McZee said:

Here's a question, are people more excited for Horhay's HRC move than they were his Ducati switch?
I'm not referring to hindsight, I mean comparing how you felt at the time of both announcements.
I think the HRC move, for me, carries higher expectations.

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Keshav said:

To Gekko I have to ask, is there something I missed regarding Jumkie being some unapproachable sacred cow who is above us all and beyond reproach simply because he's so thin-skinned? He never showed that kind of restraint when he piled on vicious attacks on Kropo, or did you miss that my friend?

To RCV - I note that you pat yourself on the back because you see your confirmation bias being reinforced, while alternately falling silent, failing in any way to address the rampant rudeness and attacks on members by Synn who race baits and uses coded dog-whistle bigotry in his attempts to smear some members and says grotesque things about JPL and his mother, goes out of his way to infuriate another by saying ugly things about that member's dead sister. And don't drag out that inane canard about my being a victim. I can take as well as I give. To those civil to me, I am in turn civil. I said two words: Attention Deficit and this, rates all this ........, but not one word about Synn's rampant bigotry and hate speech. The double standard is so blatant you can't really expect to be taken seriously. You've allowed yourself to get sucked into carrying the banner for the cult of He Who Cannot Be Criticized. Your capacity for self-examination and objective reasoning has become like a gray and withered limb hanging from a thread.

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synn said:

You can’t take .....

I have read this forum for months before I decided to participate and you have posted enough in that time for me to figure out who you are.

You’re the insecure little .... who became the school bully, talking smack and intimidating anyone who dared to question you. Some sucked up to you, some left and most shut up and put up with your crap.

Then the real big bad wolf decided to show up and took your lunch money. And the best you could do is crawl back to mommy and cry about how mean he is and how unfair you have been treated.

No, you little ...., this is exactly what you deserve. No one cares about you, your fake ethnicity, your non starter of a racing career or anything. I doubt you would get a dozen people to attend your funeral because you’re a hate fueled .... that probably has managed to alienate everyone around you. Never again will you terrorize this forum the way you used to because I will be here to smack you down to your rightful place.

...and you will always be a ..... ... ..... to address me directly and will resort to quoting others and replying to me in proxy.

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pyeman said:

Can someone explain to me why with all the animosity and personal feuds and attacks going on on here the poster known as synn always gets a pass?...where is the criticism for his endless vitriol?...the double standards on here are ridiculous.

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synn said:

Maybe because I didn’t invite myself into someone’s trailer, demand private accommodation and then later ..... about the host...

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Gaz said:

But did you invite Carmelo to your trailer in for a discussion?





Are you him?

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synn said:

Maybe because I didn’t invite myself into someone’s trailer, demand private accommodation and then later ..... about the host...

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synn said:

Also because I own a piece of .... Subaru... I think.

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pyeman said:

This may or may not be true,it's between jumkie and keshav to sort out,it's none of my business and frankly it's none of yours either, i don't get the crusade, why not just stick to talking racing? Isn't that what we come here for? Banter is great as far as i'm concerned but this place is like a ....... soap opera..

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synn said:

Man, you're right. Let's talk racing.
Will J.Lo win it or bin it in the next round?

I am thinking somewhere in the middle. Top 6, most probably.

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synn said:

Man, you're right. Let's talk racing.
Will J.Lo win it or bin it in the next round?

I am thinking somewhere in the middle. Top 6, most probably.

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pyeman said:

I too own a Subaru but mines an impreza wrx sti and it ain't a piece of ......it goes like .....

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